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Two London questions, one of which is really dumb

I'll start with the not so dumb one: how does one pronounce Marylebone? Mairly Bone? Murly Bone? As it's spelled, Mary le Bone? (sounds like one of the Ripper's victims) Or is it something else entirely? Given the odd (to American ears) way the English pronounce some place names, it may well be "Smith". And now for the maybe-not-as-dumb-as-it-seems question: Where is the famous West End? Yes, I know the difference between North and South, East and West, and the only trouble I have with maps is getting them re-folded properly. But the two maps I have of London only indicate sections or neighborhoods like Kens., Bayswater, Soho, Mayfair, etc. So, please tell me which small area constitutes the theatre district commonly known as the West End, and what, generally speaking, are the boundaries/convenient tube stops? Thanks in advance. You can scarcely imagine my gratitude.

I believe it's Mary le Bone. I wondered about the West End myself. I think it got the name long ago when the West End was really the cewnter. It's the theatre district.

Allan According to my British husband, Marlebone is pronounced Marra le bone. As to the west end, he says the boundaries are a bit ill-defined but offers as follows: the southern boundary being north of the river from Charring Cross on the west to Waterloo Bridge on the east (alternatively the Strand), then Shaftsbury Ave. as the northern border, Queensway to the Aldwich on the east and Picadiily on the west. (He's drawn me a map that looks like a grand piano with Queensway to Aldwych as the "keys" of the piano if that makes any sense.) Ben Haines what do you think?

My Brit friend says Mar le bone Get a Streetwise Map of London...no folding problems.

I do not think you can go wrong, as I say Mary le bone. So that is three Londoners, three pronunciations. Well, it is a free country. Borders are less in dispute. I think Park Lane, Oxford Street, New Oxford Street, Kingsway, Aldwych, Strand, Cockspur Street, Pall Mall, Green Park, Piccadilly, Park Lane. Welcome to Londres, Londra, and London Ben Haines

Welcome to Londres, Londra, and London Ben Haines No longer Londinium?

It seems to be a subject of delight to pronunciation pedants, across the world wide web. To wit: From http://www.geocities.com/PEARCE2002/commentiii.doc The name Marylebone, in London at least, was until about forty years ago, pronounced "marrabun," but is now generally called "maral'b'n." It is an odd example of the introduction of an "L" to a pronunciation over a period when most L's, not at the beginning of a word, have been dropped. ============================= Fro m http://www.jibaros.com/lingo.htm The amount of slurring depends on the degree of familiarity and frequency with which the word is spoken. The process is well illustrated by the street in London called Marylebone Road. Visitors from abroad often misread it as "Marleybone." Provincial Britons tend to give it its full phonetic value: "Mary-luh-bone." Londoners are inclined to slur it to "Mairbun" or something similar while those who live or work along it slur it even further to something not far off "Mbn." ================================= F rom http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/33.html Going by ‘marrow-bone stag,’ a play on the once-real Marylebone (pronounced 'Marrybun’) stage in London, means the same.” We natives pronounce Marylebone 'Mar-le-bone'. I fear some joker is attempting to mislead our American cousins. ===================================== From http://www2.prestel.co.uk/cello/WhatWeFind.htm It was only about last year when I found out how the [sic]pronounce 'Marylebone'. I still don't like saying it to taxi drivers. I'd rather be dropped off on the Euston Road and walk. ================================= B est wishes, Rex

For Ira: Alas, not a lot of us chat in Latin. Though I did hear on the World Service this morning that a Finnish professor of classics translates the words of tangos into Latin, and Finns sing them, so there is hope yet. Maybe it s because I m a Londoner That I love London so Maybe it s because I m a Londoner That I think of her wherever I go I get a funny feeling inside of me Just walking up and down Maybe it s because I m a Londoner That I love London town Possible qua Londinianus Londinium tam amo Possible qua Londinianus Re Londinio ubique penso In interiore meo sensatio curiosa est Andante Possible qua Londonianus Oppidum Londinium amo Ben Haines

Most people tend to pronounce the first syllable "Marry" rather than "Mary". As for the rest "luh" and "bone" are fine. Londoners can't agree on this one so anything sensible will ensure you're understood.

Did you know the origin of the name Marylebone is the French "Mary la bonne" or "the good Mary" (I believe it's the Virgin Mary that is referred to).

Is there a difference between "marry" and "mary"? I understand the difference between ferry and fairy, but not between marry and mary. Or are you trying to get at the difference between starry and Larry?

Won't even try on the pronunciation issue, but I think I can help with tube stops. The Leicester Square stop puts you in the thick of things, but the West End is easily walkable from Piccadilly Circus as well. To solve the map folding problem, buy an AZ Visitor's Atlas and Guide when you get to London, widely available at newstands, etc. Mine measures about about 4" by 6," and is spiral bound, so it's easy to fit into a pocket and can be used unobtrusively.

I hear a difference between a short "a" sound as in marry compared to a long "a" sound as in Mary. Maybe it's not the best was to explain the difference but it's just how I hear people in London say it.

Mary la bonne could also mean, Mary the Maid.

Tom, regional US accents have an effect on the way you pronounce "Mary", "merry", and "marry". I pronounce the first 2 the same, but the 3rd quite differently, with a broader "a". My relatives on the East Coast pronounce all 3 a bit differently.

thankyou thankyou MaryMary! Marylebone is one of those place names that has always piqued my interest but that i never researched!! Do you (or the devine Ben the Man of Letters) know the history of the name/ was there once a church on the site/in the area/does it date to the middle ages or later?? PS Ben very much enjoyed your latin translation; i think you must be fluent?.

Ben, Thank you very much. That was great! Katie

I think that to the English, there is a clear distinction between marry, which rhymes with Harry or Larry... and Mary which they pronounce a bit like May-ree. And yet, I don't think they say scary that way. Nor vary. Does anyone think that there is a difference between Garry Moore and Gary, Indiana?

Yes, we definitely would pronounce Mary and Marry differently. Mary would be pronounced as mare-ree and Marry pronounced ma-ree. Merry is pronounced similarly to Mary, but enough to hear the difference (not sure to describe it though). Scary would be pronounced as scare-ree and Vary as vare-ree. At least, as a Londoner, that's how I would pronounce the words.

.........and in answer to the original question, I would pronounce Marylebone as Mar-le-bone. OK, now lets confuse them with Southwark.... :-)