This living and breathing human being is consistently astonished at how many people believe that silence is so important and that the presence of children behaving like children is poison.

A train is not a hotel room.

Being a person who isn't a natural lover of children not my own, I think that assessment is a bit harsh, k. I feel the same way about most dogs not my own but respect those who have feelings for children & dogs, despite my lack. Maybe, instead of astonishment, you could think about feeling sorry for us, or at least recognize that people have multitudes of different affinities. Most of us, I suspect, are good people despite it. And by the way, I don't care for noisy adults either.

I like booking my tickets on www.capitainetrain.com because they list both 1st and 2nd class fares side by side. I've seen many times where the 1st class ticket is cheaper than the 2nd class ticket.

After sitting in a full 2nd class car on a ride from Hendaye to Paris, I plan on choosing 1st class whenever possible and especially on longer rides.

Some comments here are not necessarily accurate :
On SNCF you can at time have first class tickes cheaper than than second class a little bit later.
So about the comment of differenciation of clients, you can buy a first class and be in a coach full of clients of second class, who will have paid half the price you did.

Secondly, less on TGV, but clearly on Thalys, people in second can behave better than people on first, who, because their boss paid more, consider they have extra rights. Allowing them to be arrogant towards the catering personal, for example, or speak loudly on their phone.

On the opposite, I was recently in the first, behind a guy who spent half an hour explaining (loudly) to his boss that he had to drop his hash because customs were too close to him. Not really the kind of people I love to travel with.

Lastly, I'm a natural hater of people who don't like children. If one cannot stand children one should travel by himself/herself by car or private shuttle and spend his/her vacation on a remote private island.

After sitting in a full 2nd class car on a ride from Hendaye to Paris, I plan on choosing 1st class whenever possible and especially on longer rides.>

Some folks like me find first class much more relaxing - most folks really yet the Fodor's mantra is 2nd class is the same as first class - nothing could be less true IME of decades of European rail travel.

I been in both 1st and 2nd and haven't noticed a ban on babies, screaming or otherwise, in 1st. Maybe the official French Baby Police were on strike. I hear they can be quite strict.

Babies and children are less annoying than adults who behave like babies.

I absolutely love 1st class on the TGV, Eurostar, Thalys or Lyria and I choose 1st class whenever the fare is reasonable compared to 2nd class. However, for people who want calm and quiet, I must say that the mobile phone business addicts or just colleagues taking the train together can be far more annoying than any family traveling with children. Families at least try to keep their children quiet while the Masters of the World feel that anything they do is perfectly fine. Therefore, if you require <b>real</b> peace and quiet, travel in 1st class on the weekend only.

kerouac,

Are there not any "silent" wagons on SNCF trains? There are on German long-distance trains. I also just booked a trip from home to Paris, and I was able to reserve a seat in a quiet car. Don't know if that will be SNCF or DB though.

s

On the iDTGV trains you can choose "Zen" or "Zap" cars.

Theoretically, mobile phones are only supposed to used in the vestibules of TGV cars but ha ha, good luck finding many people respecting that rule.

I kind of like overhearing mobile phone calls - what folks are talking about - in Britain that is in first class but if not English then it is an annoynce.

"I also just booked a trip from home to Paris, and I was able to reserve a seat in a quiet car."

I almost always get a seat in the quiet car on ICE trains and find, alas, that people are more and more ignoring the rules. On the trip back from Heidelberg last week, one couple would not shut up (they were German speakers). Ditto for a pair of German executives (who also talked on their mobiles). I had to hunt down the conductor and ask him to get these self-centered a**holes to pipe down. (It wasn't ignorance, they looked at the Pssst stickers on the windows and shrugged or laughed)

The only thing that matters - and it doesn't matter much at all, really - is the tiny bit of extra comfort in the 1st class seats. If someone is very tall or very corpulent, he/she won't be extremely comfortable in either class, though those solo seats would be helpful for someone with long legs.

The passengers who board the trains - either in 1st or 2nd class - are beyond anyone's control. People who travel are animals - tired, stressed-out, often drunk or just plain brought up in a barn.

The only way to guarantee a completely stress-free ride is to buy up all the seats in the wagon and bar the door.