Turin, Milan, Lake Como Itineraries, no car
 

Want to know the best way to proceed on an itinerary to Turin, Milan, and Lake Como. Coming from NY, my husband and I thought we would fly to Turin, stay for about 5 days, and then take a train to Milan, stay three days, and then take a train to Varenna, in Lake Como, where we plan to stay a week to explore the area by ferry, and bus. Would then have to go back to Milan by train to fly to NY. Are these connections feasible? Difficult to arrange? Would appreciate any helpful advice so we can go forward with these plans. Hope we have enough time to plan this for May. Thank you.

No difficulty at all - trains are great and run frequently on those routes - for those short rail journeys take regional trains - dirt cheap -just show up and buy tickets -no need to book in advance- seat reservations not even possible.

There are faster trains Turin-Milan but cost more and demand a seat reservation before boarding - marginally faster on your short jaunts. check www.trenitalia.com for schedules.

From Varenna by train to Milan is the only route- you may wish to check into airport transfers from Varenna to airport.

For lots about trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Your itinerary sounds sweet- possible day trip from Turin - head up to Alpine areas in the Aosta area -possible by train.

Thank you for your quick reply and kind words. Would staying a whole week in Turin be pushing it?

Not sure if you received my reply, but was asking if staying a whole week in Turin would be too much.

Might be helpful if you told us a little about your interests including why you decided to include Turin at all.

Not sure if you received my reply, but was asking if staying a whole week in Turin would be too much.>

IMO yes -I loved Turin for a few days but a large busy city.

Have you been to Venice? If not that could fit in well with a northern Italy sojourn - to me the most mesmerizing gorgeous city in the world!

Just a few hours by train from Milan.

Originally we wanted to tour all the lakes, Como, Maggiore and Garda. But because we are not driving, making connections by train/bus to these towns from Milan seems involved. Plus, we like to stay more than a couple of days, rather than hopping around, so we can really get to know a city. We love Italy and have traveled to many regions but never to these. That's why one week in Varenna on Lake Como makes sense to us because we can go to other beautiful towns from there.
Friends told us that Turin is lovely with interesting museums, fine restaurants, etc. When PalenQ suggested taking a train from Turin to Aosta/Alpine area, I thought perhaps, like Varenna, Turin could be a base as well as an interesting place to visit. That's why I said maybe a week not only to explore Turin but explore other places nearby, if there is a train/bus to get us there.
Thanks again for your input and comments.

if there is a train/bus to get us there.>

there are buses and trains everywhere and Turin can be a great base- I thought you meant 5 days in the city itself.

Genoa is a fine fine old town not far by train - and yes the lovely nearby Alpine areas (Turin did host the Winter Olympics)

Blondie - this looks like a great itinerary and how nice to read a post by someone who has really thought about what they want to do, and isn't madly trying to squeeze seeing most of Italy's major cities into 10 days.

May will be a lovely time to be by a lake and topping and tailing the trip with two great cities gives a good balance.

A decent guide book or two will give you lots of ideas about excursions from all of these places so you shouldn't run out of things to do.

Originally we wanted to tour all the lakes, Como, Maggiore and Garda. But because we are not driving, making connections by train/bus to these towns from Milan seems involved>

Not really - Stresa is a great base for Lake Maggiore - on mainline north from Milan

Garda has two railheads on its southern tip then boats go everywhere.

https://translate.google.com/transla...nc&prev=search

For one heck of an awesome gondola ride from Aosta check out the one to Pte Heilbrenner from where you can take another thrilling not for Nervous Nellies cable ride to Aguille de midi - crossing a sea of ice- at times dangling eerily above it whilst the cable stops for folks at termini to get on and off.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aigu...w=1745&bih=864

Rather expensive but a real Alpine adventure -one of the best in the Alps I've been on.

I really enjoyed Turin - my report is here:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...omment-9370880

If you do a search you find a longer report on Turin here by someone else.

For my visit to Lakes Como and Maggiore, start here:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...omment-9356416

I haven't rented a car for a trip in over a decade.

May 2015 we did 4 nights in Stresa [did a day trip to Locarno by boat/train], 3 nights in Lugano and then [Lugano to Mennagio by bus and Mennagio to Bellagio by ferry] for 4 nights in Bellagio and then ended in Milan for 3 nights.

It was really nice; weather was good and it wasn't crowded at all. There were some places [Lake Como area - Varenna, in particular] that weren't open as it was early in the year; season not yet started.

We were in Bellagio from 18th to 22nd of May and Varenna was really shuttered.

7 nights in any one place would be to long for me, especially at that time of year.

Thank you so much for all your input. You've been so helpful and supportive. I will check out the recommended websites and head to the library. Can't wait to read the personal Turin travel itineraries some of you sent. I do feel now a lot more comfortable with our decision.
PalenQ I did mean to devote five days to Turin itself as friends of ours stayed there that long and told us there was plenty to do and see. That's where I got the number five. What I was asking was should I make it 7 and use the extra days for travelling from Turin to other places. Sorry to keep repeating but you gave me that idea with the suggestion to go to Aosta/Alpine area. From all your answers, I gather I could, but I should do more research to determine what I would like to do and see.

Also, must start searching for airfares! Pronto! I welcome any suggestions on that subject as well.

Grazie tanto!

Aosta and Genoa are very far to be day trips from Turn. There are smaller towns nearby, like Alba and Asti, that are easier. In May, the Alps and the Aosta valley are usually still very cold . Turin itself will be pleasant and has loads to do and enjoy if you like museums and palaces. It's also nice for chocolate and cheese and historic shops and cafes.

Emirates Airlines often has very good prices if you are coming from NYC.

If you are regretting not being able to tour the lakes, and you have a bit of money to spend, then think about landing in Milan and using a car transfer to Lago di Como. After that go to Lake Garda, perhaps to a midpoint on the lake (it will be a long travel day) and then finish up in Stresa in Lake Maggiore. From Stresa it is quite easy to get to Malpensa airport for your flight home, and it is also easy to visit Milan as a day trip. But I think Turin is very nice, and personally I would probably prefer to be sightseeing in a city then spending all my time on the lakes. But I thought I would mention it.

IMO the rail connections to Stresa from Milan are a bit easier, and perhaps only by a "bit" than the rail connections from Milan to Varenna-Esino.

All the connections to Varenna are on regional trains; Stresa gets EuroCity services as well.

Maggiore and Stresa are a lot different than the mid-lake Como towns of Varenna, Bellagio, and Menaggio; Stresa, for example, has a whole row of those so-called "belle epoch" hotels, real grand dames in their own way, lining the lake. The stuff that can "keep you occupied" on the lakeshore itself might be a bit more varied on Como than Maggiore; anyway a lake is not necessarily a lake in some ways.

Both are great IMO and we've stayed on both; I think for sheer scenery at the lake itself I'd pick Como and this is very subjective I realize.

IMO the rail connections to Stresa from Milan are a bit easier, and perhaps only by a "bit" than the rail connections from Milan to Varenna-Esino.>

If going from Malpensa airport I took a direct bus from airport to Stresa- quickest way- but from Milan itself the train.

Did you find a non stop flight from NYC to Turin? Otherwise fly to Milan Malpensa. There are frequent direct buses from Malpensa to Turin (2 hrs journey).
http://www.sadem.it/en/prodotti/coll...a-airport.aspx

Aosta Valley:
on weekends in July and August, there are direct buses to Breuil-Cervinia (2 hrs OW) where you can board the gondola to Testa Grigia (Matterhorn Paradise area). On all other days you will have to change buses at Chatillon and the OW journey lasts 30 min longer.
Pointe Hellbronner mentioned by Palen is about 4 hrs from Turin (by public transport) and a bit too far away for a day trip. Sleep 2 nights at Aosta and you can really enjoy the highest mountains of Western Europe!

"Originally we wanted to tour all the lakes, Como, Maggiore and Garda. But because we are not driving, making connections by train/bus to these towns from Milan seems involved. Plus, we like to stay more than a couple of days, rather than hopping around, so we can really get to know a city"

If you want to be in the center of Lake Como/Lake Maggiore/Lake Lugano, check Lugano:
trains to Como (30 min journey) about every 30 min from 4.04am until 22.04; connecting buses and ferries to Menaggio, Bellagio and Varenna.
10 daily buses to Menaggio/Lake Como (50 min journey) with connecting ferries to Bellagio - Varenna.
Trains to Locarno/Lake Maggiore (1 hr journey) every 30 min from 5.26am until 23.56; connecting buses and boats to Ascona - Brissago - Cannobio - Intra - Isola Bella - Stresa
Trains and buses to Ponte Tresa - Luino/Lake Maggiore (1-1 1/2 hrs journey) about every hr; connecting trains and boats to Laveno - Intra - Isola Bella - Stresa.
Cog railway to viewpooint Monte Generoso.
Rope railways to Monte Bre and Monte San Salvatore.
Gondolas to Monte Lema and Monte Tamaro.
Frequent boats on Lake Lugano
Frequent trains to Milan, Lucerne and Zurich
Daily buses to Tirano (- Bernina Express resp Stelvio Pass) and St. Moritz (- Scuol - Landeck - Innsbruck)
http://www.luganoturismo.ch/en

I think your itinerary looks good except I'd probably do either 3 days Torino/5 Milano or 4/4. I liked Torino but three days was enough, plus Milano has tons of day trip options (towns within an hour or so train ride) as well as more in the way of museums, etc.

Here's my trip report that included Torino with links to photos
http://www.pbase.com/annforcier/dolo...ino_alto_adige

IMO the "problem" with going to the city of Como is that it is not located on the prettiest or even the most interesting part of the lake.

I think the better option might be to take the bus over to Menaggio as Neckervd has suggested.

I stayed in Como and loved it - though many may prefer 'fishing villages' like Bellagio, where they now angle more for the tourists' euros and are often very crowded) but yes occupy serenely sublime positions on the more beautiful part of the lake. Como is a real regional city and a nice one that most neglect when doing the lake. And it has boat and bus connections all over the lake.

I think if you are coming from New York City then Turin is more interesting than Milan, with more scenic vistas. One of the villages on Lago di Como is more of a break from urbanity than the city of Como.

I believe there is a bus that goes from Malpensa airport directly to Lugano. So that's another option.

We are doing the same itinerary in June and we are doing 4 nights Turin/4 Como/5 Milan. Our tentative day trips are:

Turin - Sacra di San Michele
Como - Lugano
Milan - Verona and probably one of either Genoa or Bologna

We decided not to do longer than 4 nights on Lake Como as we thought it might get a bit repetitive after that since most of the attractions are related to the natural beauty of the Lake and the Villas that surround it. Of course everyone is different and I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be happy spending their whole vacation there but with teenagers in tow we wanted to keep our itinerary a bit more varied :) We won't have a car either, the only thing we found that no car makes difficult is touring vineyards in Piemonte but pretty much everything else you would want to do should be reachable by train.

Mikedallas,

If you are thinking of hiking up to the Sacra di San Michele please know that it is very, VERY steep hiking. You can read stories from people who keep travel blogs about how they started the hike and ended up in tears halfway through -- and these are grown men! It can also be really hot in Piemonte in June during the sunniest part of the day. If your kids are super-troopers who never complain or just love that sort of thing, might work out. And I think there is a bus or funicular to get to the top?

On a different subject, I hope you are planning to take the family to the movie museum in Turin and go up the glass elevator to the top. Try to do on the clearest day you have so you get a good view of the Alps. Also, there is an underground museum that might interest kids (military defenses) and an absolutely crazy museum in Turin that has hundreds of precise 18th c. botanical models of fruits. It's small, so it's just a duck in and out, but if they are interested in environmental science, it's a real look back in time.

In the trip report I posted above (here it is again - http://www.pbase.com/annforcier/dolo...ino_alto_adige) I describe in detail the hike up Sacra di San Michele. There was no funicular, I believe at one of the train stations (not the one from which you hike up) it is possible to get a taxi.

It is extremely steep. I did it on a very hot, humid day and it was horrible. The hike I mean, once at the top it was great.

Sorry, that link was to the photos (although there are a few pic of the hike up to San Michele), here's the link to the trip report

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...nd-castles.cfm

7 days in Turin is great, in my opinion, this is just what I did last year. So much to do in and around the city.

Sleep 2 nights at Aosta and you can really enjoy the highest mountains of Western Europe!>

Keep 5 days in Turin perhaps and 2 nights in Aosta - too far for day trip as others have pointed out. But a terrific experience.

Also, must start searching for airfares! Pronto! I welcome any suggestions on that subject as well.>

You may find flying into and out of Milan cheaper and Milan's Malpensa Airport is way west of Milan towards Turin.

Have you been to Italy before? If so I can see spending a week in Turin (well I can't myself but I can see why others would) but if not having seen Venice or Rome or Florence I'd put them first - but that is just my subjective take - kind of like going to England and staying in York or Bath and not London.

Cities like Turin and Milan are nice but northern Italy in general is so industrial and modern compared to farther south IMO.

Frencharmoire,
Thanks very much for the heads-up, according to the website there are buses available from the train station starting in Mid-May. Failing that we will shell out for the taxi, our kids might make it to the top walking but I'm not sure I would :) We are definitely planning on doing the Cinema museum, especially since our daughter has aspirations of being an actress. In Milan, we were also thinking about doing the tour of the Ansalmo workshops (where they design the sets and props for La Scala) but I haven't found any reviews on it so we may just do the La Scala tour instead. We took our kids to Spain last year and found as long as we mix things up (indoor vs outdoor, art vs other stuff) that they do pretty well. As long as our son gets gelato or chocolate 2x a day he will be happy :)

mikedallas,

Sounds great. Be sure to leave plenty of time for the cinema museum in Turin because it has loads of fun details, plus they show clips of movies in many different rooms, so that can be time consumimg (but really a lot of fun though). I've never even heard of the Anselmo workshops, so can't offer any advice, but it sounds fascinating. (I have been to the cinema museum in Milan, and that is very tiny and can be safely skipped).

Genoa is very far for a day trip from either Turin or Milan. Bologna or Verona is easier. With kids, I might pick Verona. The Shakespeare connections are in dispute, but it is a very lovely town with 2 roman amphitheaters and a cheery vibe, with a river rushing through it. Bologna has attractions, but many are related to its history as a university town or its present day life as a pasta capital. For future doctors or scholars (or chefs), it's most interesting. For actresses, maybe less so (and future chefs have a lot to enjoy in Turin).

A nice museum for everybody in Milan is the Ambrosiana because it's kind of like a mini-Smithsonian, more a collection of one-off unusual treasures than a lot of paintings. It's fairly small, so about 40 minutes there gets you through the whole thing. Also Milan hosts temporary art shows that can be small and interesting for younger people -- like an M.C. Escher exhibit or Ai Weiwei.

Torino is a great town for gelato and chocolate of every description. I'm guessing the Milanese eat those things somewhere, but most of them are trying to stay thin all the time, so I suspect they only do it in hiding. But sounds like your son has a sharp eye or nose for it, and I am sure it exists Milan.