Trying to make sense of the trains in Germany
Apr 6th, 2016, 11:16 AM
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Trying to make sense of the trains in Germany
Almost done with my planning 
. Just trying to figure out the German train system. People have mentioned getting a low price (if you reserve in advance) for 4 people. How do I do that? What is the "Bavarian card"? In Italy, when we went from Florence to Cinque Terre, we just got our train tickets on the same day in the early morning. Can we do this in Germany? The tickets were very cheap too.
1- Need train tickets from Frankfurt to Boppard (Rhine Valley) looks like we need to change trains at least once but what's the best bargain we can get? I also want to make sure we get our seats (I don't understand the-- "you really don't have a ticket" thing).
2- Need train tickets from Boppard to Rothenberg Ob Der Tauber (I know there are several train changes involved).
3- Rothenberg to Munich
4- Munich to Salzburg
5- Salzburg to Vienna
. Just trying to figure out the German train system. People have mentioned getting a low price (if you reserve in advance) for 4 people. How do I do that? What is the "Bavarian card"? In Italy, when we went from Florence to Cinque Terre, we just got our train tickets on the same day in the early morning. Can we do this in Germany? The tickets were very cheap too.1- Need train tickets from Frankfurt to Boppard (Rhine Valley) looks like we need to change trains at least once but what's the best bargain we can get? I also want to make sure we get our seats (I don't understand the-- "you really don't have a ticket" thing).
2- Need train tickets from Boppard to Rothenberg Ob Der Tauber (I know there are several train changes involved).
3- Rothenberg to Munich
4- Munich to Salzburg
5- Salzburg to Vienna
Apr 6th, 2016, 12:22 PM
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www.bahn.de/en will tell you all you want to know - schedules and various fares, including discounted fares if you book far enough in advance to get them - book early as they are issued in limited numbers on each train - make a seat reservation at the same time you make you online booking -discounted fares are train-specific and can't be changed - if you want total flexibility to hop any train anytime look into the German Railpass which allows just that and vs full-fare walk-up tickets a good deal for your trains.
But you can save by getting the deepest discounted tickets online. The Bavarian Pass is good on regional trains throughout Bavaria- use it for # 4 and #5 - costs about 30 euros for up to several folks total not p.p. but you are restricted to slower and less comfy regional trains - fine for most folks.
Salzburg to Vienna check www.oebb.com - Austrian Railways for same discounts available online.
for lots of good info on German and Austrian trains check www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.
Again you can do like you did in Italy - walk-up tickets and always get on trains but you'll pay a lot lot more than online discounted fares - same is true in Italy on high-speed lines but not the regional or IC slower trains you took.
But you can save by getting the deepest discounted tickets online. The Bavarian Pass is good on regional trains throughout Bavaria- use it for # 4 and #5 - costs about 30 euros for up to several folks total not p.p. but you are restricted to slower and less comfy regional trains - fine for most folks.
Salzburg to Vienna check www.oebb.com - Austrian Railways for same discounts available online.
for lots of good info on German and Austrian trains check www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.
Again you can do like you did in Italy - walk-up tickets and always get on trains but you'll pay a lot lot more than online discounted fares - same is true in Italy on high-speed lines but not the regional or IC slower trains you took.
Apr 6th, 2016, 12:54 PM
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For trip no. 3 and 4 you can use a cheap Bayern-Ticket (remember that term, you won't find a "bayern pass" or so on ticket machines). The Rothenburg - Munich trip is ca. 30 min. longer when using local trains via Ansbach & Treuchtlingen, but 20 E. (at a minimum) cheaper than the ICE via Nuremberg. For Frankfurt - Boppard leg you can use a regional ticket too (lookup it at bahn.com). You can buy the Bayern Ticket and any other Laender-Ticket from ticket machines before boarding or online at www.bahn.com. There is no Laenderticket for the Boppard - Rothenburg leg (crossing the Hassia / Bavaira border). For the Salzburg - Vienna leg search for discounted tickets at the Oebb site and compare the prices angainst the prices of the Westbahn (https://westbahn.at).
BTW: your 2nd destination is Rothenburg, not Rothenberg - be careful: there are at least 2 stations called Rothenberg - in the boondocks of nowhere.
BTW: your 2nd destination is Rothenburg, not Rothenberg - be careful: there are at least 2 stations called Rothenberg - in the boondocks of nowhere.
Apr 6th, 2016, 01:20 PM
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sla019 has given stupendous advice as always about German trains and Germany!
Bavarian Lander Tickets also come in first class at not much more and IME on regional trains it may be well worth the extra moolah - often a compartment to yourself - there are I believe no seat reservations possible on regional trains and 2nd class can get very crowded - especially on weekdays when they act as school buses and swarms of adolescents come aboard for a few stops - I've seen this more than a few times and always glad I am sitting in first class with few other folks - not all regional trains have first class though
Bavarian Lander Tickets also come in first class at not much more and IME on regional trains it may be well worth the extra moolah - often a compartment to yourself - there are I believe no seat reservations possible on regional trains and 2nd class can get very crowded - especially on weekdays when they act as school buses and swarms of adolescents come aboard for a few stops - I've seen this more than a few times and always glad I am sitting in first class with few other folks - not all regional trains have first class though
Apr 6th, 2016, 04:46 PM
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"People have mentioned getting a low price (if you reserve in advance) for 4 people. How do I do that?"
I will give you a primer...
Start at the DB itinerary search page.
Enter your FROM and TO Stations under "Outward Journey" then your travel dates and approximate travel hour and passenger info and hit search. When the results appear, look on the right under the "savings fares" column" and click on "to offer selection) to read the ticketing and pricing details.
Also, you can click on "show details" on the left side for any journey. That will show the connecting stations, platforms, and times.
You are 4 adults traveling in July, right? If I recall, you are traveling to R'burg on July 9 or 10 (Sat or Sun.) When you do the above for Boppard Hbf - Rothenburg ob der Tauber, you will probably find fares of €86-$96 for four. Not bad. The trip takes nearly 5 hours on most trips and involves 3 changes of train, usually, sometimes 4.
Under the "Products" column, you will see SOME high-speed trains (IC or ICE) and some regional trains (MRB, RB.) Parts of this particular trip are only possible on the regional trains; in fact, at least 2 of the trains for every journey you see are regional trains.
sla019 says "There is no Laenderticket for the Boppard - Rothenburg leg." No, but there is a similar DB day pass you can use to travel across state lines using regional trains only called the "Happy Weekend Ticket" which is even cheaper than the saver fare prices above - you pay a flat price for 4 of €52 and use the pass to travel all day long around the whole country if you want to. (A similar pass called the "Quer-Durchs-Land-Ticket" is available on weekdays.)
But how do you find ONLY regional trains? Back at the DB itinerary search page, check the "only local transport" box. Then the only results you get will be for regional trains - use the HW ticket for any of the itineraries you see there.
SO... I just did that regional train search for a sample Saturday date in July, and the €52 fare comes up as I promised. The trip still takes 3-4 changes of train, but it's about 45 minutes longer because you're using the regional trains exclusively.
But besides the savings there are solid reasons for using the weekend ticket and regional trains to make this trip.
1.) The saver fare journeys using the high-speed trains force you to use them exactly as scheduled. You cannot miss or change any of those high speed trains. No problem making changes with the HW ticket - take any regional trains you like. If you miss a schedules high-speed train of your own doing, the ticket is invalid. Also, the saver fare tickets can only be refunded against a substantial fee (and then you have to buy new tickets again.)
2.) You do not have to pre-purchase the HW ticket. It never sells out. Buy it at the station. (If you buy in advance it is not refundable - so don't - there's no reason.)
3.) The saver fare doesn't guarantee you a seat unless you buy reservations - and even then, you only get a reserved seat on the high-speed trains - not the regional trains that you must also use to reach Rothenburg. So no matter which tickets you buy, you will not have reserved seating for a good portion (or all) of the journey. Just the way it is.
Hope that helps. Complicated though. Even some Germans don't get it.
I will give you a primer...
Start at the DB itinerary search page.
Enter your FROM and TO Stations under "Outward Journey" then your travel dates and approximate travel hour and passenger info and hit search. When the results appear, look on the right under the "savings fares" column" and click on "to offer selection) to read the ticketing and pricing details.
Also, you can click on "show details" on the left side for any journey. That will show the connecting stations, platforms, and times.
You are 4 adults traveling in July, right? If I recall, you are traveling to R'burg on July 9 or 10 (Sat or Sun.) When you do the above for Boppard Hbf - Rothenburg ob der Tauber, you will probably find fares of €86-$96 for four. Not bad. The trip takes nearly 5 hours on most trips and involves 3 changes of train, usually, sometimes 4.
Under the "Products" column, you will see SOME high-speed trains (IC or ICE) and some regional trains (MRB, RB.) Parts of this particular trip are only possible on the regional trains; in fact, at least 2 of the trains for every journey you see are regional trains.
sla019 says "There is no Laenderticket for the Boppard - Rothenburg leg." No, but there is a similar DB day pass you can use to travel across state lines using regional trains only called the "Happy Weekend Ticket" which is even cheaper than the saver fare prices above - you pay a flat price for 4 of €52 and use the pass to travel all day long around the whole country if you want to. (A similar pass called the "Quer-Durchs-Land-Ticket" is available on weekdays.)
But how do you find ONLY regional trains? Back at the DB itinerary search page, check the "only local transport" box. Then the only results you get will be for regional trains - use the HW ticket for any of the itineraries you see there.
SO... I just did that regional train search for a sample Saturday date in July, and the €52 fare comes up as I promised. The trip still takes 3-4 changes of train, but it's about 45 minutes longer because you're using the regional trains exclusively.
But besides the savings there are solid reasons for using the weekend ticket and regional trains to make this trip.
1.) The saver fare journeys using the high-speed trains force you to use them exactly as scheduled. You cannot miss or change any of those high speed trains. No problem making changes with the HW ticket - take any regional trains you like. If you miss a schedules high-speed train of your own doing, the ticket is invalid. Also, the saver fare tickets can only be refunded against a substantial fee (and then you have to buy new tickets again.)
2.) You do not have to pre-purchase the HW ticket. It never sells out. Buy it at the station. (If you buy in advance it is not refundable - so don't - there's no reason.)
3.) The saver fare doesn't guarantee you a seat unless you buy reservations - and even then, you only get a reserved seat on the high-speed trains - not the regional trains that you must also use to reach Rothenburg. So no matter which tickets you buy, you will not have reserved seating for a good portion (or all) of the journey. Just the way it is.
Hope that helps. Complicated though. Even some Germans don't get it.
Apr 6th, 2016, 04:48 PM
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Apr 7th, 2016, 04:33 AM
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<i> Trying to make sense of the trains in Germany
Posted by: layanluvstotravel on Apr 6, 16 at 3:16pm</i>
For an illustrated introduction to the trains see
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm. This doesn't answer your specific questions but does give a general review of the way things work over there.
Posted by: layanluvstotravel on Apr 6, 16 at 3:16pm</i>
For an illustrated introduction to the trains see
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm. This doesn't answer your specific questions but does give a general review of the way things work over there.
Apr 7th, 2016, 04:36 AM
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"sla019 says "There is no Laenderticket for the Boppard - Rothenburg leg." No, but there is a similar DB day pass you can use to travel across state lines using regional trains only called the "Happy Weekend Ticket" which is even cheaper than the saver fare prices above - you pay a flat price for 4 of €52 and use the pass to travel all day long around the whole country if you want to. (A similar pass called the "Quer-Durchs-Land-Ticket" is available on weekdays.)"
Yes you are right. But both may be more expensive than a discounted ICE ticket for the OP's family (2 adults and 2 children) and certainly will not be much cheaper (a discounted ICE ticekt will be in the 38 to 48 E. range for all). I would look up that when sales will have started. At any rate travelling in ICE on the Mainz - Würzburg leg will be much more convenient than in RE's stopping at every garden gnome's fence.
Yes you are right. But both may be more expensive than a discounted ICE ticket for the OP's family (2 adults and 2 children) and certainly will not be much cheaper (a discounted ICE ticekt will be in the 38 to 48 E. range for all). I would look up that when sales will have started. At any rate travelling in ICE on the Mainz - Würzburg leg will be much more convenient than in RE's stopping at every garden gnome's fence.
Apr 7th, 2016, 10:58 AM
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similar DB day pass you can use to travel across state lines using regional trains only called the "Happy Weekend Ticket" which is even cheaper than the saver fare prices above - you pay a flat price for 4 of €52 and use the pass to travel all day long around the whole country if you want to.>
Great for price but it would take all day to cover the distance that say a direct ICE train might take - say The Rhine to Rothenburg and changing several times - regional trains also are not nearly as comfy IME as faster trains - fine for Lander Tickets but to travel a long distance check how much time it would take versus high-speed trains.
Great for price but it would take all day to cover the distance that say a direct ICE train might take - say The Rhine to Rothenburg and changing several times - regional trains also are not nearly as comfy IME as faster trains - fine for Lander Tickets but to travel a long distance check how much time it would take versus high-speed trains.
Apr 7th, 2016, 12:20 PM
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SO... I just did that regional train search for a sample Saturday date in July, and the €52 fare comes up as I promised. The trip still takes 3-4 changes of train, but it's about 45 minutes longer because you're using the regional trains exclusively.>
Yes not bad - 45 minutes longer but in part because there are only regional trains on some portions so this is not much slower on regional trains (boppard-rotheburg)
but say Frankfurt to Munich - regional trains take about 5.45 hours and fast trains 3h10 - so often taking only regional trains on those special deals can mean a lot longer on a less comfy train and with 2 or 3 changes rather than direct and the price for the ICE may even be cheaper if you get the cheapest discounted ticket.
Yes not bad - 45 minutes longer but in part because there are only regional trains on some portions so this is not much slower on regional trains (boppard-rotheburg)
but say Frankfurt to Munich - regional trains take about 5.45 hours and fast trains 3h10 - so often taking only regional trains on those special deals can mean a lot longer on a less comfy train and with 2 or 3 changes rather than direct and the price for the ICE may even be cheaper if you get the cheapest discounted ticket.
Apr 7th, 2016, 07:03 PM
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"Yes you are right. But both may be more expensive than a discounted ICE ticket for the OP's family (2 adults and 2 children) and certainly will not be much cheaper (a discounted ICE ticekt will be in the 38 to 48 E. range for all)."
Your children are 17, right, layanluvstotravel? So you would be looking at a ticket for 4 adults. The above prices might be valid for 2 adults and 2 free children but yours aren't children according to DB.
"...but say Frankfurt to Munich - regional trains take about 5.45 hours and fast trains 3h10 - so often taking only regional trains on those special deals can mean a lot longer..."
That's right, Palenq, there are situations when regional trains are too much trouble for the money you save, and Frankfurt-Munich would be one of those. I was trying to address the specific train journey from Boppard to Rothenburg that the OP is taking - not have a general theoretical argument about different sorts of trains.
Your children are 17, right, layanluvstotravel? So you would be looking at a ticket for 4 adults. The above prices might be valid for 2 adults and 2 free children but yours aren't children according to DB.
"...but say Frankfurt to Munich - regional trains take about 5.45 hours and fast trains 3h10 - so often taking only regional trains on those special deals can mean a lot longer..."
That's right, Palenq, there are situations when regional trains are too much trouble for the money you save, and Frankfurt-Munich would be one of those. I was trying to address the specific train journey from Boppard to Rothenburg that the OP is taking - not have a general theoretical argument about different sorts of trains.
Apr 7th, 2016, 07:57 PM
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Me again. So I went on the DB Bahn site and am looking at tickets from Frankfurt to Boppard. Found this:
Frankfurt(M) Flughafen Regionalbf 11:24 RE 4256
Boppard Hbf 12:39
Flexpreis
First Class
$135,20 Euros
When I choose the Bahn Card 25 Discount (no idea what that means) the times are very limited.
Anyways, did I do this right? Honestly, renting a car seems easier and maybe cheaper (even with parking fees)?
Frankfurt(M) Flughafen Regionalbf 11:24 RE 4256
Boppard Hbf 12:39
Flexpreis
First Class
$135,20 Euros
When I choose the Bahn Card 25 Discount (no idea what that means) the times are very limited.
Anyways, did I do this right? Honestly, renting a car seems easier and maybe cheaper (even with parking fees)?
Apr 7th, 2016, 10:01 PM
#16
A few years ago our family of four (2 adults, 2 youth at the time) did a similar trip (into Frankfurt, out of Munich), through Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Fussen, and over to Salzburg. When all was said and done, the weekly cost of a minivan-size rental car (and petrol, etc.) for the four of us worked out to be not substantially different from train tickets (including "Sparscheine" savings prices) and gave us flexibility to stop wherever and whenever without hassling with our baggage, including at a summer toboggan run and having a couple of roadside picnics.
That said, your tickets from Salzburg to Vienna can be purchased online at https://westbahn.at/en; the day of travel at the station; and even on the train. The ticket cost is €25,50 per person.
I was able to recreate your DB search and received the same fares. So, just for travel from Frankfurt to Boppard, plus Salzburg to Vienna, your ticket costs are already over €200. Try comparing your travel route on viamichelin to see how the numbers turn out.
That said, your tickets from Salzburg to Vienna can be purchased online at https://westbahn.at/en; the day of travel at the station; and even on the train. The ticket cost is €25,50 per person.
I was able to recreate your DB search and received the same fares. So, just for travel from Frankfurt to Boppard, plus Salzburg to Vienna, your ticket costs are already over €200. Try comparing your travel route on viamichelin to see how the numbers turn out.
Apr 8th, 2016, 02:22 AM
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>>Me again. So I went on the DB Bahn site and am looking at tickets from Frankfurt to Boppard. Found this:
Frankfurt(M) Flughafen Regionalbf 11:24 RE 4256
Boppard Hbf 12:39
Flexpreis
First Class
$135,20 Euros<<
According to the Bahn web site, the cheapest option for 4 adults is the "Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket" for 68 E. 2nd class, usable at any regional train. It is pontless to travel first class in a RE, the difference between 1th and 2nd class just being the color of the seats ...
Frankfurt(M) Flughafen Regionalbf 11:24 RE 4256
Boppard Hbf 12:39
Flexpreis
First Class
$135,20 Euros<<
According to the Bahn web site, the cheapest option for 4 adults is the "Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket" for 68 E. 2nd class, usable at any regional train. It is pontless to travel first class in a RE, the difference between 1th and 2nd class just being the color of the seats ...
Apr 8th, 2016, 04:31 AM
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layanluvstotravel: The Ticketing system in Germany is complex. But the actual travel itself is not difficult and is normally pretty cheap. And you don't have to figure out the whole system, only how to do your specific trips.
"Frankfurt(M) Flughafen Regionalbf 11:24 RE 4256
Boppard Hbf 12:39"
First off, you do not want a Bahn Card.
The trip you have in mind takes you to Boppard via Mainz. It is on the direct regional express train - a good choice. AND... you don't have to pay all that for this trip because you can take advantage of prices offered by the local transit authority.
RMV sells tickets at FRA's Regionalbf station for your train (from a ticket machine) for €4.65 each for Frankfurt(M) Flughafen Regionalbf to MAINZ Hbf. That covers one part of your trip.
(The DB site won't show you this price because it cannot sell the RMV tickets.)
DB sells the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket (day pass) at the FRA station (from the same ticket machine) which covers you from Mainz to Boppard. So buy this ticket at the same time you buy the other ticket. Select a R-P ticket for 4 persons; your cost is €39 for one ticket for 4 adults.
The whole trip for four adults costs €57.60 this way.
(DB's best offer for your trip is the QDL ticket that sla019 mentions - but there's no sense in paying €10 more than you have to for the same train ride. The QDL ticket by the way is offered at the last minute at the train station too - there's no need to pre-purchase it either.)
You do NOT want to buy tickets in advance for this trip - they are sold at the station 24/7.
You do NOT get off your direct train in Mainz - just stay on the train and show both tickets if you are asked to do so.
"Frankfurt(M) Flughafen Regionalbf 11:24 RE 4256
Boppard Hbf 12:39"
First off, you do not want a Bahn Card.
The trip you have in mind takes you to Boppard via Mainz. It is on the direct regional express train - a good choice. AND... you don't have to pay all that for this trip because you can take advantage of prices offered by the local transit authority.
RMV sells tickets at FRA's Regionalbf station for your train (from a ticket machine) for €4.65 each for Frankfurt(M) Flughafen Regionalbf to MAINZ Hbf. That covers one part of your trip.
(The DB site won't show you this price because it cannot sell the RMV tickets.)
DB sells the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket (day pass) at the FRA station (from the same ticket machine) which covers you from Mainz to Boppard. So buy this ticket at the same time you buy the other ticket. Select a R-P ticket for 4 persons; your cost is €39 for one ticket for 4 adults.
The whole trip for four adults costs €57.60 this way.
(DB's best offer for your trip is the QDL ticket that sla019 mentions - but there's no sense in paying €10 more than you have to for the same train ride. The QDL ticket by the way is offered at the last minute at the train station too - there's no need to pre-purchase it either.)
You do NOT want to buy tickets in advance for this trip - they are sold at the station 24/7.
You do NOT get off your direct train in Mainz - just stay on the train and show both tickets if you are asked to do so.
Apr 8th, 2016, 04:37 AM
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ALSO... If you want to take an ADDITIONAL outing the same day by train AFTER your arrival in Boppard, the R-P Ticket you bought and used already will still cover you - it's valid all day and through the evening on the same day!
Apr 8th, 2016, 04:40 AM
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Here is a photo of a typical ticket machine. The FRA machine should look something like this. The logos tell you that it sells both the DB and RMV tickets and has an English-Language interface.
http://www.rmv.de/linkableblob/Zentr...utomat_neu.jpg
http://www.rmv.de/linkableblob/Zentr...utomat_neu.jpg
