Trying to determine whether an apartment in Paris is legal
Sep 22nd, 2018, 03:47 PM
#44
I seldom if ever have to use a launderette. Usually just hand washing is all I ever do. Even when I have a washer in the flat -- since European combo washer/dryers can wreak havoc. 
But over a two week stay -- maybe one visit to a laundromat/launderette
But over a two week stay -- maybe one visit to a laundromat/launderette
Sep 22nd, 2018, 08:14 PM
#45
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Yes, janisj, that's the one I mean. I still see no registration number -- only the VRBO property number. Since I have the Home Away app on my tablet, the link opens in the app. No registration number there. Let me try going to VRBO on the full website...
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Last edited by swandav2000; Sep 22nd, 2018 at 08:21 PM.
Sep 22nd, 2018, 08:30 PM
#48
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Wow. That does not appear on my screen anywhere. I wonder if it makes a difference that my isp is in Germany? Or maybe a problem with the app? I know that some Paris apartment sites do not even allow me access -- I get a message saying the site is forbidden, while my friends in the US have no problems.
Maybe I'll uninstall the app for a day or two, then install it again.
Thanks for helping me out with your notes, janisj.
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Maybe I'll uninstall the app for a day or two, then install it again.
Thanks for helping me out with your notes, janisj.
s
Sep 22nd, 2018, 11:03 PM
#50
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Some rental companies, in an attempt to hide themselves from local scrutiny, block access to their sites from French ISPs or will limit access to those using French ISPs. I use a VPN most of the time when on the internet and have found that sites can change dramatically when they think I am in the USA.
Sep 23rd, 2018, 05:15 AM
#51
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Update: I've been corresponding with the owners, and I think we're going to be fine. It's true that the apartment doesn't have a washing machine (I care less about a dryer than a washing machine), but the owners, who have been most gracious, live across the hall and have made it clear that I'm welcome to use their washer and dryer. Also, there is a laundromat one block away. So I think we'll be fine--we'll use their machines once or twice and if I need to do more I can use the laundromat, plus hand washing. I actually like using laundromats; we did it this year in the little town of St. Cere, in the Lot, and you get to talk to people. And in Paris there's a cafe on every corner, so we can just relax over a coffee for an hour while the clothes get washed--hardly a hardship, since that's basically the purpose of this trip anyway!
No dishwasher, either, but we're not much for cooking--more likely to bring in prepared stuff. So washing a few dishes won't kill us.
The business about how websites are blocked or altered for different countries is fascinating.
Thanks again to everybody for your help--esp. Macross, who found this lovely little apartment.
No dishwasher, either, but we're not much for cooking--more likely to bring in prepared stuff. So washing a few dishes won't kill us.
The business about how websites are blocked or altered for different countries is fascinating.
Thanks again to everybody for your help--esp. Macross, who found this lovely little apartment.
Last edited by frenchaucoeur; Sep 23rd, 2018 at 05:22 AM.
Sep 23rd, 2018, 05:37 AM
#52
Of course, you understand that if the owners live across the hall, the apartment is almost certainly illegal since people in Paris (and a few other cities) can only rent out their own residence as a vacation rental. If you are told at the last minute that it suddenly is no longer available, you have been warned.
Sep 23rd, 2018, 06:14 AM
#53
Of course, you understand that if the owners live across the hall, the apartment is almost certainly illegal since people in Paris (and a few other cities) can only rent out their own residence as a vacation rental. If you are told at the last minute that it suddenly is no longer available, you have been warned.
Just how much investigation is a prospective renter supposed to do? I would think that the existence of a registration number should absolve the renter of any further duty to determine legality.
Sep 23rd, 2018, 06:20 AM
#54
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I don’t think this has as much to do with “duty to determine legality” as it does with protecting oneself from a last minute cancellation or even worse - like being evicted during one’s tenancy due to neighbors reporting an illegal short-term rental. Probably the second scenario is unlikely in Paris, but not out of the realm of possibility.
Sep 23rd, 2018, 06:58 AM
#55
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Unfortunately, although we were led to believe that these registration numbers would be linked to tax information thus signaling the status of the owner and his/her right to rent the apartment legally, there has been a SNAFU. Owners of apartments have been able to receive registration numbers by filling out a simple on line form that doesn't link at all to the tax information. Consequently, some of these registration numbers have been given out in error making life for the vacationer even more difficult. If the owner lives across the hall, or up a floor or in the building across the street or anywhere that is not the apartment itself, the apartment is most probably an illegal rental even though it has a registration number.
Sep 23rd, 2018, 07:49 AM
#56
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Unfortunately, although we were led to believe that these registration numbers would be linked to tax information thus signaling the status of the owner and his/her right to rent the apartment legally, there has been a SNAFU. Owners of apartments have been able to receive registration numbers by filling out a simple on line form that doesn't link at all to the tax information. Consequently, some of these registration numbers have been given out in error making life for the vacationer even more difficult. If the owner lives across the hall, or up a floor or in the building across the street or anywhere that is not the apartment itself, the apartment is most probably an illegal rental even though it has a registration number.
https://www.pad-a-terre.com/
Sep 23rd, 2018, 07:57 AM
#57
I very much agree that these can be awful times for renters, because there seems to be no fool proof way to verify some of these ambiguous situations. I hope that before long there will be a municipal data base that anybody can consult to check legality or not -- but it does not yet exist. I'm sure that there are ways to play with the law and still remain technically legal, for example putting the deed in the name of an adult child or some other family member. Whenever I myself read a law, I always think of ways to get around it even if I have no intention of doing so. (Actually, as a former airline employee, I have even worse thoughts, because I can always think of three or four ways to get around the security measures in airports -- and that is something that I would reveal to nobody.)
If anybody is throwing up their hands in despair at the thought of vacation rentals, there is actually good news in the hotel department, albeit not in the category of "charming small family run hotels in the heart of Saint Germain-des-Près." In the next three years another 73 hotels are opening in the metropolitan area, representing another 10,000 rooms. Courtyard by Marriott is opening at Gare de Lyon in a couple weeks. They have converted a 19 storey office building in to a 249 room hotel with panoramic views. Also opening (or already open) are the Motel-One at Porte Dorée with 255 rooms, the Qualys at Porte de Montmartre with 185 rooms, the Mercure Batignolles with 134 rooms. The Pullman Montparnasse will be reopening after 3 years of renovation with 957 rooms, and another Courtyard by Marriott at Porte de Versailles with 350 rooms. Obviously, the biggest projects are in the suburbs (hello, Chinese and Indian groups!) with the twin towers of the Mercuriales being converted from offices to a hotel with 1600 rooms as well as the Tour Pleyel in Saint Denis with 680 rooms. Meanwhile another 700 rooms are in the works at La Défense. Don't think that all of these locations are terrible, because you may or may not know that a huge metro project is underway with another 68 metro stations all over the suburbs, many of which will be open by the Olympics in 2024. Perhaps it is time to start thinking out of the box for future trips.
If anybody is throwing up their hands in despair at the thought of vacation rentals, there is actually good news in the hotel department, albeit not in the category of "charming small family run hotels in the heart of Saint Germain-des-Près." In the next three years another 73 hotels are opening in the metropolitan area, representing another 10,000 rooms. Courtyard by Marriott is opening at Gare de Lyon in a couple weeks. They have converted a 19 storey office building in to a 249 room hotel with panoramic views. Also opening (or already open) are the Motel-One at Porte Dorée with 255 rooms, the Qualys at Porte de Montmartre with 185 rooms, the Mercure Batignolles with 134 rooms. The Pullman Montparnasse will be reopening after 3 years of renovation with 957 rooms, and another Courtyard by Marriott at Porte de Versailles with 350 rooms. Obviously, the biggest projects are in the suburbs (hello, Chinese and Indian groups!) with the twin towers of the Mercuriales being converted from offices to a hotel with 1600 rooms as well as the Tour Pleyel in Saint Denis with 680 rooms. Meanwhile another 700 rooms are in the works at La Défense. Don't think that all of these locations are terrible, because you may or may not know that a huge metro project is underway with another 68 metro stations all over the suburbs, many of which will be open by the Olympics in 2024. Perhaps it is time to start thinking out of the box for future trips.
Sep 23rd, 2018, 08:26 AM
#59
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A judgement call based on what I've read in local papers.
Right now, the city is concentrating its enforcement efforts on
1. the arrondissements 1-4 and to a lesser extent arrondissements 5,6, and 18
2. investor owners of multiple properties bought separately or jointly and used as short term rentals . . .sort of spread out hotels.
The pad a terre site looks exactly like what the city is targeting. The apartments are certainly lovely but on eye inspection do not contain any of the "stuff" owners would have in their apartments if they actually lived there.
Right now, the city is concentrating its enforcement efforts on
1. the arrondissements 1-4 and to a lesser extent arrondissements 5,6, and 18
2. investor owners of multiple properties bought separately or jointly and used as short term rentals . . .sort of spread out hotels.
The pad a terre site looks exactly like what the city is targeting. The apartments are certainly lovely but on eye inspection do not contain any of the "stuff" owners would have in their apartments if they actually lived there.
Last edited by Envierges; Sep 23rd, 2018 at 08:34 AM.
Sep 23rd, 2018, 08:47 AM
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A judgement call based on what I've read in local papers.
Right now, the city is concentrating its enforcement efforts on
1. the arrondissements 1-4 and to a lesser extent arrondissements 5,6, and 18
2. investor owners of multiple properties bought separately or jointly and used as short term rentals . . .sort of spread out hotels.
The pad a terre site looks exactly like what the city is targeting. The apartments are certainly lovely but on eye inspection do not contain any of the "stuff" owners would have in their apartments if they actually lived there.
Right now, the city is concentrating its enforcement efforts on
1. the arrondissements 1-4 and to a lesser extent arrondissements 5,6, and 18
2. investor owners of multiple properties bought separately or jointly and used as short term rentals . . .sort of spread out hotels.
The pad a terre site looks exactly like what the city is targeting. The apartments are certainly lovely but on eye inspection do not contain any of the "stuff" owners would have in their apartments if they actually lived there.
I am really surprised to realize from the posts here that the regulations call for any short-term rentals in Paris to be the actual residence of the owner. I had no idea - just thought that there was a registration process for tax purposes, and to limit the number of such rentals in order to alleviate any housing shortage for resident renters.
