Ripple47

Hi,
We (couple)are planning a 12-14 day trip to Europe end august. We land in Paris. We cover Paris- 2 days, explore Switzerland by going to Geneva and spend four days and then go to Venice-2 days, Milan- 1 day and Rome-2 days. what are the 'must dos in Venice and Milan'?Any recommendations on if this iternary is ok or suggestions as to how much time in each place, what to see etc? Train is a comfortable but expensive option. would it make sense to drive around atleast within switzerland ?will we miss out on the scenic lanscape if we do so? I've read car driving in Italy is not safe? Please help!

Sandra22

Geneva is o.k. But if you want to see "real Switzerland" you should go to Luzer or Interlaken to see some absolut spectacular mountais... Driving in Italy is a little different but not dangerous at all

ira

Hi Ripple,

I strongly urge you to rethink this itinerary. It is not a vacation. It is an expedition.

Every time you move, you lose at least 1/2 day of vacation time.

Is there a particular reason for going to Milan?

You cannot possibly "cover" Paris in a mere 2 days.

Geneva/Venice is over 8 hrs by train, you would want to go to Milan before Venice.

For what to see, check the miniguides under "destinations".

Hope this helps.

Edward2005

My sense is that you're trying to cover too much ground given the time you have. It certainly can be done, but you will be spending a lot of time in transit. But if starting in Paris and ending in Rome is not negotiable, here is what I would do.

----------
Paris - first 2 nights.

Switzerland. Skip Geneva and opt instead for the smaller and more charming towns on the other side of the lake. But what I REALLY recommend is staying up in the Alps in the Bernese Oberland region. Grindlewald, Wengen, Murren, Lauterbrunnen, or Gimmelwald would be great. 3 nights.

Venice. It will take nearly all day to get from the Oberland to Venice, so spend 3 nights here. Keep in mind that in August it will be hot and the whole world will seemingly be in Venice.

Skip Milan unless you're really into banking and shopping.

Next 2 nights in Florence.

Last 2 nights in Rome. Ideally, skip Florence and spend the last 4 nights in Rome.
-------

Personally, what I would do is do either France and Switzerland (fly into Paris and out of Zurich) OR Switzerland and Italy (fly into Zurich and out of Rome). This would let you go a more liesurly pace. Here's my suggested 13-night France/Swiss plan:

Paris - first 3 nights.

Burgundy or Loire Valley - 3 nights.

Lake Geneva area - 2 nights.

Berner Oberland area - 3 nights.

Luzern - 2 nights. Luzern is only 1.5 hours from the Zurich airport by train.

suze

Have you been to Europe before? I ask because most often the over-ambitious itineraries (and I consider yours one!) poster here are 1st time visitors.

Personally I cannot comprehend 2 days here, 1 day there. Remember each time you change cities/countries you must check out of your hotel, get to a train station or rent a car, make the journey (none of these are short that you mention), get from the train station to your next hotel, check in. Especially with distance like Paris>Geneva and Geneva>Venice that alone will take an entire day. So to my math, you have basically 1 day in each city with a TON of time and expense transporting yourself around. Personally I'd rather be sightseeing than driving in a car or riding in a train.

My suggestion would go more like:
Paris 5 days
Geneva, Montreux, Vevey 5 days
Venice 4 days

Fly in to Paris and out of Venice or the reverse.

MaureenB

I definitely agree that you're being over-ambitious with your itinerary and under-estimating the amount of time spent in hassling with check-in/check-out and transit. We recently spent 4 nights London, 4 nights Paris and 5 nights Amsterdam. I think 3 full days in a new city is not enough, and I almost wish we'd chosen either London or Paris and stayed longer in just two cities instead of three. Just my opinion. Click on my name above and you can find my travel report with specific recommendations for restaurants, activities and hotels in each city we visited.
Also, we loved traveling by train and find it much more relaxing and pleasant than air travel.

suze

Or 5 Paris, 4 Venice, 5 Rome (and skip Switzerland entirely) if your plane tickets are already purchased and Paris arrival & Rome departure is set-in-stone.

nytraveler

Not to beat a dead horse - but the trip you have designed will shows you lots of train stations and not a whole lot more. (You have said 12 days - but per your plan at least 4 full days are spent in travel - and does this 12 include the day you leave the US, the day your arrive - mostly lost - and the day you leave - again lost)?

I would limit the trip to 2 or at most three desinations - depending on how you're counting days. I would probably do Paris and either Venice or Rome - by air. Or - if excessive heat is an issue - do Paris and Switzerland (Luzern or Interlaken and countryside).

metlc

Ripple,

Yes, that's a little too much travel. I would suggest:

3 nights Paris
2 nights Montreux (or Vevey, etc.)
2/3 nights Lauterbrunnen valley (or Zermatt)
2 nights Stresa (or Lugano)
3 nights Venice

And that's all. The Paris-Montreux leg is the longest; everything else is manageable.

I think any itinerary that includes Venice should place it last, if possible, for the grand finale.

Ripple47

All your inputs have been very valuable and made us reconsider the iternary. Here is what we are thinking now:
19 Aug - Leave HKG
20 Aug - Arrive Paris 7:00 am. Check in etc etc.
20 th half day,21-22 - Paris
23 Aug - Paris to Geneva by morning train and hire car or reach base inside Switzerland direct by train, and maybe doInterlaken area and zermatt and gimmelwald?
24-27 Aug : Next 4 days in Switzerland
27 Aug : Fly / Overnight train to Venice
28/30 - Venice
30 Aug : Fly to Paris
31 Aug : 11:30 am flight
1 Sep : 2:00 pm in Hong Kong

Would 3 days each be good for Venice and Paris for a first trip. Does it make sense to replace Venice with Salzburg?

and given the time constraint what are the must do things in each of these places

ilovetulips

Ripple, I urge you to cut out some of your cities and stay more nights in some of the big ones like Rome and Paris. We went to Paris and Amsterdam about 3 weeks ago and I kid you not when I say you burn more time than you think with transportation and getting checked into a hotel. Top that with jet lag and you aren't going to do any major sightseeing the first day. That ultimately leaves 1 full day in Paris, not even enough to say you scratched the surface.

As far as the train being comfortable and expensive. It is the easiest, fastest and most practical way to get around Europe. Is it comfortable? I can't say that 2nd class was "comfortable" but train travel was truly the best way to go.

The only place on your itinerary I can comment on is Paris. It is a feast for all of your senses. It is a very walkable user friendly city, but I would give it 3 nights at the very least. We spent 5 nights there and I could have easily spent 7-10 days. We were also there at the beginning of tourist season, so take into consideration bigger numbers of tourists on the streets, in museums, at restaurants, etc for your time of year. Try very hard to soak in a place and get to know it, rather than speeding through like the Roadrunner. I promise you will have a greater appreciation of your travels that way.

ilovetulips

You know I forgot about the low cost airlines. Other people have more experience with EasyJet and Ryanair but you may want to do some comparisons with trains v. planes.

As far as Paris, my must sees were

1. Louvre
2. Eiffel Tower
3. Notre Dame
4. St. Chappelle
5. Luxembourg Gardens
6. Musee D'Orsay
7. Walking in a historic area such as the Marais, Latin Quarter or Montmartre. (We did the Marais and the Latin Quarter, they were both wonderful, but I was partial to the Marais.)
8. Time to wander around cafes, chocolate shops, boutiques. A must do is to have a coffee, wine, beer, etc. at some cafe in Paris.

Other places I enjoyed that weren't necessarily must sees were St. Sulpice, Palais Royal, Place de Vosges, and walking in the 2nd district (courtesy of our tour guide Michael.)

Ripple47

Well thats a very concise To Do List in Paris. Thanks for the same. If you look at my my second posting, I have taken out Rome, Milan and Florence from the iternary. so we have about 11-12 days of pure vacation time. Could you also tell me what hotels you stayed in on your trip to Paris? Also what airlines allow flying to one destination and exiting from another for a reasonable premium? any suggestions?

janis

Ripple47: I think even your new streamlined itinerary is waaaaay too ambitious. You did not answer whether you have been to Europe before.

You do not have 11-12 days of "pure vacation time".

20-22 Aug - Paris. The first day will be a killer after flying from Hong Kong so don't plan on a lot of sightseeing that day. More just lazy walks, or an open air tour bus. So 2 full days for active sightseeing.

23 Aug - Paris to Geneva by train and hire car and do Interlaken area and zermatt and gimmelwald. This is a nutty day - won't comment any more than that.

24-27 Aug: 4 days in Switzerland

27 - 30 Aug : Fly or Overnight train to
Venice (The 27th will be used up getting to Venice, and you can't count Aug 30 as being in Venice since you plan on traveling back to Paris that day)

30 Aug : Fly to Paris

31 Aug : morning flight to Hong Kong

So you will actually have 8 full day for seeing things (not counting your arrival day on Aug 20, the 23rd - that day is basically impossible, the days you travel to and from Venice and Aug 31 when you fly out).

So even adding in a couple of 1/2 days amoung all those travel days still only equals about 9 full days of free time.

Your trip is really too short to hit three countries. if you had booked open jaw tickets -- into Paris and out of Italy it would have been a little better. But having to return to Paris to fly home has cut even more of your time.

I would eliminate Switzerland entirely - or eliminate Venice (but that would not be my choice)

Nikki

To find budget airlines flying from one location to another, try:

www.whichbudget.com

KathrynT

I would still try to streamline this trip and avoid returning to Paris to fly back as this will take up one valuable day of your precious vacation. Can you fly out of Venice?

Your new plan is better but I would add at least one more day to Paris as that flight from Hong Kong will be exhausting. Your first day in Paris will be a blur as you fight to stay awake.

Intrepid1

I can only add that everyone so far seems to think that flight from Hong Kong is going to nbe "exhausting" and I suppoes that is because everyone is also ASSUMING you are flying in coach class. So, is THAT true or not?

I would agree with trying to fly back out of Venice rather than returning to Paris..or at least flying back from Venice and making a same day connection in Paris back home.

Since you are determined to see Switzerland (and I personally think that is fine) then I also think you need to DECIDE on one part of that country...trying to do both Zermatt and the Berner Oberland isn't the greatest idea IMO with a short amount of time.

If it is your first time there and you had to do one or the other I would opt for the Berner Oberland and you might consider routing yourself by rail to Bern rather than to Geneva.

Some trips are more ambitious than others and, unfortunately, VERY unfortunately, a lot of people who post here seem to lose sight of the fact that for SOME travelers the travel to and from various places are as enjoyable as the destinations themselves and perhaps you are one of those folks.

Regardless, I hope your trip is wonderful and makes you want to return someday for more.

ilovetulips

Ripple, we stayed at the St. Thomas D'Aquin Hotel in the St. Germain area. It is a lovely hotel for 120 euros per night. My hesitation in recommending it to you is that it has no AC. We were there in late May so it wasn't a problem, but I understand that Paris can be pretty warm in August. Look at other posters recommendations- Hotel Bonaparte has AC I think.

ilovetulips

Another hotel that gets excellent reviews is the Hotel Muguet in the Eiffel Tower area. It also has AC and runs about 108 euros per night, but be advised it is very popular so it is often booked many months in advance.

suze

Pensione La Calcina, Venice
www.lacalcina.com

Dacia Luxembourg, Latin quarter, Paris
www.dacia-paris-hotel.com

Are both 3-star hotels I have stayed at and enjoyed.