Trip Report - Venice
 

This is a review of the first leg of my recent trip to Italy. I am not reporting on everything because there is already a lot of that on this Web site; just some things I noticed and thought were worth mentioning.

Venice, Arrive Aug 27 – Depart August 30, 2006

Venice Pros
* Checking our luggage at Piazzale Roma..cheap.
* Hotel being on gondola route
* Restaurant, Bar Cafeteria Elite, on Calle Giacinto
* Street fair in Dorsoduro district
* San Marco Piazza in the evening

Venice Cons
* Train station – everything about them
- Workers either didn’t speak English or didn’t want to admit they did
- Stairs in the front with no ramps for luggage
- Confusion at Mestre station about which train would take us to Florence
- Crossing the tracks above or below ground. Each was difficult with luggage on wheels
* The food wasn’t as good as I had hoped it would be. The gelato was mediocre (happy to report it was better elsewhere)

We took US Airways and arrived in Venice an hour early. It was raining and very hot and carrying my luggage was a pain in the neck, literally. The girl in the VELA booth at the airport suggested checking our bags at the Piazzale Roma instead of at the Mestre station as we had planned. We were so glad we took her advice because the Venice train stations were expensive for checking luggage while the Piazzale Roma was very reasonable. We paid 3.50 euros when we dropped off our luggage and the balance when we picked it up. I think it was 3.50 per day.

Venice is a jewel. I wasn't particularly looking forward to the stay there, but I was so pleasantly surprised. I hope to return and visit there again some day.

People had told me that the Venice can be smelly, but there was no smell during our stay. No cats either. I had heard there were a lot of them there. There were many, many people out walking their dogs and lots and lots of pigeons.

The vaparetto schedule was a little confusing to us so my suggestion would be to learn the names of the stops ahead of time. They all sounded unfamiliar to me. After a day of it, it was easy. Of course, there are only two routes to worry about for going up and down the Grand Canal; nos. 1 and 82. One stops at each and every stop while the other skips several at a time. Be careful when catching it in the morning. We almost waited for the express vaparetto and were glad we didn’t because we found out the every stop vaparetto was the only one running that early in the morning. I can’t remember which was which and I don’t want to guess wrong.

I never did find the Internet hub that is supposed to be near the basilica. The line for the basilica was moving very quickly. We had reservations, but I don’t think we would have needed them that day. We also noticed that they were letting people in before 10 a.m. when we thought they weren’t supposed to be open that early. The provide paper shawls for women whose shoulders are exposed.

Definitely go up in the Campanile for the view, it’s spectacular. The cost was 6 euros and there was no line at 9:15 a.m. on a Monday.

I did not like much of the food we had while in Venice. I tried several different things and decided to just get pizza from the “take away” places the last couple of days. The one exception I had was when we stumbled upon a small place north of San Marco Piazza called Bar Cafeteria Elite. It was one block of Chiesa dei SS Giovanni e Paolo on Calle Giacinto. We had just been treated rather poorly at a place down the street. I gave up trying to order, nearly in tears because the waitress was so mean, and walked about two blocks and found this place. The lasagna was scrumptious. While we ate, we watched locals walking by with their families. It was so much different than the area around San Marco yet it is only a few blocks away.

We did the church walk. We had purchased the Venice Orange Card and the churches were included. One thing they didn’t tell us is that at the first church you receive a church card ticket. They just handed it to us and didn’t give us any instructions. My friend lost hers on the second day. She had to buy another in order to see the rest of the churches. I still had my church ticket so I didn’t have to buy one. They mark on your Venice Card that you have already received the ticket. That’s how they knew she had one and I guess you can only enter each church once on that ticket. Anyway, make sure you hold on to the ticket. The churches in Venice are lovely. Of course, the Santa Maria la Salute is breathtaking. But be sure to check out that San Frari church. It was prettier on the inside than SMS, in my opinion. My favorite church in Venice wasn’t on the church card. It is next to the train station, Chiesa S. Maria di Nazareth. The marble was just beautiful.

The Rialto Bridge was a mess. There are too many people day or night. You have to go there anyway to see it and get photographs, but be forewarned that it is packed with people.

There was some kind of a local flea market going on in the Campo Santa Margheria. From what I could understand from one of the ladies running a table, the market is twice a year. We had a great time looking through the treasures for sale and bought a few things to take home.

The map we used while in Venice was from Rick Steves’ trip planner. There is a map of all of Italy on one side of the map and then maps of Florence, Rome and Venice on the other side. Every canal and street we saw was properly indicated on this map. We walked all over Venice and never got lost. We also used this map in Florence and the same was true there. Great maps. We heard from other travelers that their maps weren’t very accurate. I had another map of Venice that showed the church locations better than the Rick Steves map. So together we found everything we were looking for.
The worse thing about Venice was the train station. The ticket window workers were unwilling to help us at all. There were VISA and MC stickers in the window, but they said they don’t take VISA and MC. So, we ended up using the self-service machine. Luckily, there was a woman there using the machine and she helped us answer all of the questions it asked. She recommended taking first class whenever possible and we are very glad we followed her advice. The difference in price is worth the added comfort and space.

The train station didn’t have ramps to roll your luggage up into the station on. One other thing to note is that when you need to find out what “Bin” your train is going to be in, you don’t always look for the town you are traveling to. When we were at the Mestre station looking for where the train to Florence was going to be, we couldn’t find Florence anywhere. We were tired and confused. We had lugged our luggage from track 5 or 6 over to the station. No one there would help us. They didn’t seem to speak English. Then, we finally decided that we probably wanted the train to Rome since it probably went through Florence. What you should look for is the departure time. That really helps. I can’t remember if the train number was on our ticket and then on the machine or not. All I knew was that we had ten minutes to find our train and none of them were going to Florence. That’s why we had to walk all the way over to the station to read the screens over there. Then we had to go all the way back to Bin 4. It was very stressful. We didn’t have that much trouble later traveling by train because we learned from that first experience. It just isn’t as easy as some people may lead you to believe.

There also isn’t a lot of room for luggage on all of the trains. On the train to Florence, the seats faced each other with a tray in the middle. This tray took up floor room and there wasn’t room for small bags at our feet. We stowed the small bags above. The large bags were too heavy to hoist up there. They also wouldn’t fit underneath the seats very well. The aisle was very narrow and people couldn’t get by with our luggage in the aisle. This also wasn’t the same on later trains.

I loved Venice and would love to go back again some day.

When I hit edit, it didn't save the changes I made. So, here's an except about our hotel:

We stayed at Hotel Mercurio while in Venice. We only had to try two different streets when looking for it the first time. After that, we had no trouble at all finding it even after dark. There are two workers, Vitorio and Notelle (sp?). They were helpful and spoke very good English. Our room, no. 24, had a window that opened over a canal that is on the gondola route. We could hear the music and singing from the gondaliers. It was quite magical. Some people might find the room a bit small, but I'm sure you get what you pay for. The room was 110 euro per night and it included breakfast each morning. All of the rooms we stayed in while in Italy were very small but we didn't spend much time in them so it didn't matter. This hotel had access to the Internet, but there was a charge of 3 euro for 30 minutes. I would definitely recommend this hotel to anyone staying in Venice.

Glad to hear you enjoyed Venice, and my two favorite churches!

Hotel Mercurio is a good budget choice. People were nice when I stayed there alone and this summer with friends. Breakfast is very plain and coffee not that good but that doesn't matter for the price I paid, I guess.

Santa Lucia Station does have a ramp. In order to get there, you must not get out of the front stairs. The ramp is located on the left side when you get out of the station.

I found Venetian gelato just fine (it may depend on you taste or maybe some people are just lucky - like me ;-) ) and much cheaper than e.g. in Paris. > 1 scoop = €1 most anywhere maybe except Piazza San Marco VS €2 in Paris.

> * Train station – everything about them

I have had little trouble with Italian stations. Perhaps that's partly due to my luggage that's usually on smaller side? It also might depend on people.

I assumed that the train stations had ramps SOMEHWERE, but they certainly weren't in the obvious places. It seems like if you're buidling a place where lots of people have luggage, you'd build a ramp system instead of stairs - or at least have both at the main entrance....not just for tourists. I can't imagine that Italian people enjoy carrying their suitcase up stairs any more than we do!

As for the gelato, my kids liked it but thought they were stingy. In Rome we got huge scoops. In Venice they used the small scoops (which is what I thought they'd be everywhere.)

Hi modglila-

Thanks for report on Venice, it was very informative. I'm leaving for Venice next Thursday and just had a quick question. When you were going from Venice to Florence, did you start at the Mestre station (not Santa Lucia)? I'm planning on taking the ES from Venice SL to Firenze and I know the train stops in Mestre but I don't have to get off and switch there, do I?

Thank you!

> I'm planning on taking the ES from Venice SL to Firenze and I know the train stops in Mestre but I don't have to get off and switch there, do I?

It depends on which train you are taking, some (most?) leave SL, some may not go to SL, coming from Treviso, stop at Mestre then go on to Florence without going into SL.

My answer above may not clear. If the ES train you are taking at SL IS going to Florence, obviously you don't have to change the train. Perhaps I don't understand you question. Which train do you have in mind taking?

modglila, the Santa Lucia train station was built in 1956 before rolling suitcases were invented.
Next time take the passage near the toilets on the left of the station, there is a ramp there.

Didn't you love the view of the canal from the station? It is so beautiful to me.

And I have the same problems with "bins", it can drive you crazy.
Glad you loved Venice over all, I do too.

Thanks for the report.

Good food can be hard to find in Venice, since so many restaurants cater to tourists and offer, I think, lower quality food. The best food usually is in the off-the-beaten-path spots.

As for the "bin" (binario) problem: I always match the departure time and train number on my ticket with what's listed on the bin board, rather than thinking in terms of the destination. That's a more reliable approach.

And sometimes it helps to master just a few phrases to avoid confusion. Such as "Questo è il treno giusto?" -- "Is this the right train?" -- as you show your ticket to the conductor.

But it sounds like you survived and fourished. Congrats!

What conductor? There were times we couldn't find anyone who worked for Trenitalia around.

Matching the ticket departure time and train number is definitely the route to go, but I had read instructions about finding your town on the overheads. That's why I mentioned my trouble so other people would know the alternative way to find their train.

As far as the ramp on the left-hand side, I know exactly what you are talking about, but it doesn't go all the way up, does it? I couldn't understand why it didn't go to the top. Is it possible that something has changed and another level added?

We started our journey from the Santa Lucia station and had to change trains at Mestre before going on to Florence. I don't know about other times during the day, but that's how our trip was.

Hi Kappa-

I'm taking the Eurostar from Venice SL to Firenze. I've done this before, but it's been a few years...In looking at the trenitalia website, I'm thinking the train just stops in Mestre and we most likely don't have to switch (not that that will stop me from having all my luggage ready by the door ready to jump off just in case). :)

Trip report continued (I had started a new thread and perhaps that wasn't the best idea so I am adding this here):

Second leg of my trip

Florence, Arrive Aug 30 - Depart Sept 1, 2006

After Venice, Florence just didn't stack up for me. They were undergoing renovations on SM Novella and the Duomo, so maybe that had a little to do with it.

We had planned on staying three days in Florence, but at the end of the first day, we decided to see if we could rearrange our itinerary. We called the agriturismo to check with her about arriving early, then we made arrangements to pick up our car earlier. We had to change the pickup location, but that wasn't a big deal. The only extra cost was that the hotel in Florence would not let us out of paying for all three nights.

There were so many people in Florence that even the pedestrian areas were difficult to navigate. We found that we couldn't stroll, talking as we walked along. Most times we had to walk single-file in order to walk down the sidewalk.

We found the leather school behind the Santa Croce Church. The products there were so pretty. If I had just had it in my budget to buy one, but I didn't; not on this trip anyway.

The best thing about our Florence stay was the evening we spent at Michael Angelo Piazza where we sat on the steps watching the sun set over Florence. We stayed for awhile watching the lights light up all over Florence. We got a lot of great pictures there.

The other thing I enjoyed quite a bit was the San Lorenzo Market. I had a lot of fun just browsing through all of the stands. I bought quite a few things too.

I was really tired from all of the walking we had done previously in Venice and my arthritis was acting up so I elected to not visit most of the museums. Instead I enjoyed them from outside and did some people-watching.

Still didn't come across any food that was outstanding while in Florence. We had some snacks at a frittoria that were very good though. I had fried apples and my friend had some kind of rice and sausage ball. She liked it so much she went back and bought another one.

Our hotel was just one block from the train station. That made it easy to find. We turned the corner and there it was. The balcony with a view was of the street that runs into the train station. It was a very noisy place to be, but the noise seemed to settled down and it didn't keep me awake at all. The room was the largest we had during our stay in Italy. And the breakfast there was the only one that included meat and cheese. The name of the hotel was Hotel Boccaccio. The Santa Maria Novella Perfumery is across the street and down a little way.

Speaking of the perfumery, I bought quite a few gifts in there. Everything smelled so good. The church was one of the things I did tour and it was quite lovely even thought the outside was under scaffolding.

We took a cab from our hotel to the car rental place even though it was just around the corner, about three blocks or so. The cost was 15 euro, which we split, and was well worth it. Getting out of Florence by car was more difficult than I thought it would be. I think it was mainly because the street that a sign had us go down ended up being closed. After that, we struggled to find our way out, but we made it.

The gelato was pretty good in Florence and I started seeing Internet hubs there as well. I used one next door to our hotel. It was 1.50 euro per 30 minutes and it was open until midnight. There were a lot of young people in there using the video cameras to talk to friends and family. They also had a USB thingy for me to put my SD card into so I could upload a few photos before going home. My family enjoyed seeing pictures of us while we were away.

One other thing I noticed is that you can fit more into the day than you think. Sometimes when you look at the city maps, it looks like everything is so spread apart. It didn't take very long for us to walk between sites. It didn't take as long as mappy.com said it would.

I can't think of anything else to add. Florence was a little bit of a disappointment for me, but worth a visit.

OK, now I found this trip report. I don't know which thread you are going to continue on, so now I have both!

You are right - everything is much closer together that it looks on a map - especially Florence (and I would imagine Venice to be the same). Rome is a little more spread out, but still quite manageable.

Thank you for the information about your hotel in Venice. I think it would be perfect to hear the gondoliers singing outside your window!

I hope there is more coming! Thanks for sharing,
Linda

I am getting ready to follow in your footsteps so reading your trip report eagerly. You mentioned that you were disappointed in Florence, that it was not what you expected. Out of curiousity, what picture did you have in your head? I am trying to prep myself for potential disappointment. Do you think if you had seen some of the museums, it would have made a difference in your opinion? Thanks!

Diane

No one spoke English? Like at the ticket counters? Or do you mean workers around the train station?

Your comment makes me curious, especially the "or didn't want to admit they did" part.

We are going to Venice in Oct. We will be coming to the SL train station from Rome. I am on a walker. Are there any porters or helpers there? OUr hotel is a block from the train station. How are the trains? Would you reserve before going to Europe? I really enjoyed your discusion but am now worried how we will manage. Does anyone know anything about Cortina? We have a week in the Alps there and want to travel to Austria, Switzerland, and Germany as side trips. Thanks

I'm sticking with this thread because it was my first. Sorry for any confusion. I don't know how this site works I guess:

This is a review of the third leg of my recent trip to Italy. I tried to keep it short, but it’s not.

Tuscany, Arrive Sept 1 – Depart Sept 5, 2006

Tuscany was quite beautiful. We drove from Florence to Pienza. Somehow, it took us six hours. The first thing that happened was that we turned north on 67 instead of south. The map I had was marked with 69 and 67 but the roads only mentioned 67. So, when 69 merged with 67, we went the wrong direction without knowing it. My friend, the navigator, couldn’t believe that none of the towns we were driving through weren’t on our map. Then, she looked north of where we were supposed to be and there was the town were we in. We turned about and headed south again.

Although we would see signs indicating A1, we were never able to get to it and get on it. So we took the winding S69 all the way down to Arezzo. We stopped in Arezzo, but had no map or plan. It was so blasted hot that day. We were tired from driving and after having quite a bit of difficulty finding the center, we decided to skip it.

We drove on and came to Lucignano. It was the first really beautiful little town that we had driven through. We decided to get out. It was much more our style; nothing like Arezzo. We parked and walked into the town. We walked around and everything was quite. We stopped at a store to pick up postcards and found the Val d’Orcia map Stu Dudley refers to so we bought it. We also bought a gelato in town. The church in Lucignano is quite beautiful, especially for such a small town. It’s odd how they have such grandiose churches in such little towns. We reluctantly left because we wanted to get to the farmhouse before dark. We took another wrong turn and went to Pienza the wrong way again, but we did get to Pienza.

Where the road, S146, bends in Pienza, we had to take a left and head south. Our farmhouse, Luna d’Oro was the first farmhouse right on the road past the turn off to Monticchiello so it was very, very easy to find. We had a splendid view of Pienza from the house.

To keep my post short, I’m just going to mention the towns we visited. We drove part of Stu Dudley’s drive through Pienza, San Quirico, Torrenieri, and the dirt road through Bellaria and Cosono. I personally didn’t like this part of the drive. I thought the view from S146 was just as nice if not nicer and the road was paved. We kicked up a lot of dust on the backroad. I’m sure others feel differently. I wish we could have seen the sunflowers in bloom. We saw a lot of fields of dried sunflowers. We stopped in Montalcino for lunch at Enoteca La Fortezza, the San Antimo Abbey (wonderful…must see), Montepulciano, Monticchiello (I didn’t like the pici at La Porta, but the Hazelnut gelato was delightful).

The next day we drove to Siena by going through San Giovanni d’Asso (where we ended up behind a pack of bicylers during a race), and we stopped at Oliveto Maggiore (church services were going on so we didn’t see much of the church). Siena was nice, a lot less crowded than Florence, but I don’t see a huge similarity. I’ve heard so many people refer to Siena as the smaller Florence, but I didn’t see it that way at all. We drove on to San Gimignano. Then the trouble started. For some reason, we couldn’t find our way home. After all that driving and finding everything with little difficulty, we got lost, and it was dark. We finally figured out what road we were on and knew what road we wanted to get to, but again, we couldn’t get there. How can it be so hard to get on the highways? We were trying to get on S2, but didn’t quite make it for many miles.

We stopped and asked for directions in some little town. The man didn’t speak any English, but I understood everything he was telling me to do and we got back on the right path and finally on S2. It was weird, we spent a lot of time trying to find out way and we never strayed far from Siena. We had gotten off track just outside of Siena. But, we made it and stopped in Pienza to join the festival that was going on. By the time we got there, the food stands had closed down, but there was a band playing and the people were dancing. It was a lot of fun.

The next day we drove to Cortona and got lost at least twice on the way. Our problem always occurred in the middle of the towns. We’d inadvertently take the wrong turn. We wanted to take S71 somewhere around Chiusi, but we ended up on some backroad that cut up through the country. No big deal, it just took a lot longer to get there. Cortona had pretty many people there, but it wasn’t overly crowded. We decided to drive back through Lucignano because we had enjoyed it so much.

The last day, we drove up to La Spezia. Since we had done so much driving the days before, we stuck to the main highway. By then, we were better at doing so and we didn’t get lost at all. We made a quick stop in Pisa for the leaning tower and drove on to La Spezia where we dropped off our car, took a taxi to the train station and hopped a train to Manarola.

You can cover a lot of ground in a short period of time in Tuscany. Although we drove a lot, we also stopped in a lot of towns and walked around quite a bit. I was surprised by what we could do in the time we had. We did not tour any wineries nor drink much wine. I don’t drink, not even in Italy. I had two glasses during the entire trip.

My suggestions for people driving, or just visiting Tuscany, learn the words for left, right, north, south, east and west. Left = Sinestra, right = destra, north=nord. I don’t know the others. Also, it wouldn’t hurt to know the days of the week in Italian. We saw signs for the festivals but didn’t know what day they were talking about. Some of the museums have their hours on the door and indicate what day of the week. We didn’t know most of them either.

Don’t be afraid to ask non-English speaking people for directions. We got help filling our gas tank, finding roads, mailing packages, purchasing train tickets, etc and many times it was from people we couldn’t communicate with other than a few simple words and lots of hand motions. Filling the gas tank was interesting. I’ve never seen a self-service gas station like they have. We should have those here. There were no attendants in sight. You put your money in and selected the pump you were on. Then, you filled your tank depending on the amount you put in the machine. The machine is not on the individual pump. I spent some time looking for where to insert my credit card on the gas pump. Then, a man pulled up to fill his tank. He spoke a little English. He said he would be the teacher. Then, when we finally got the money in and he saw that we didn’t know how to get the gas cap off (something the rental place surely could have shown us), he ended up filling the tank for us.

We had another man and his son drive us to a road when he couldn’t quite describe how to get there.

The funniest thing was when you would go to ask someone for assistance. They might shy away at first, then before you know it, you have about seven locals around you arguing about the directions they should give you. That happened a couple of times. We would just wait patiently until they came to an agreement on where to send us.

I would always greet the person I was questioning with Scusi, buongiorno, then “Do you speak English?” If they said no, I didn’t let them get away, it just changed the way that I communicated with them. I never had anyone ignore me or not try to help, at least not on the street like that.

I only had three unpleasant experiences. One in the post office and two in restaurants. There were so many more times when people were more than willing to help.

One other thing, while I was parked in Monticchiello eating my gelato in the car. We were looking at our map and deciding what to do the next day. I was looking at the view over the wall and noticed a sign that looked like it said the parking was for locals only. About that time, an older gentleman tapped on our window and kept asking if I was a stranger. I thought he wanted me to move the car. He stopped someone behind my car and they were all discussing us. I thought we were going to by lynched for parking in the resident’s parking area. Finally, a young woman came to the window and said that the older gentleman was worried that we were lost since we had the map out and he just wanted to help us. Wasn’t that nice?

Well, I deviated from a simple Tuscany trip report, but what can I say? One last report on Cinque Terre coming in a day or so.

Referring to questions about Florence:

I am not all that interested in art or history (shame on me) so I don't think the museums would have made Florence better. I did really enjoy the architecture of the churches in Venice. I like to see the art where it belongs, in the original buildings not sitting on a podium in a museum. I'm sure I'm the acception to the rule on that.

I think I thought Florence was a smaller town. It didn't have all of the cute doors that you see in Venice and Tuscany. I don't see what people see when they say the town is beautiful. It was colorless except for the duomo and you couldn't get a good look at that except when you were right in front of it because the other buildings are so tall.

My friend was unhappy as well and maybe some of that rubbed off on me. I don't know.

In response to the train station workers speaking English:

In La Spezia, the ticket window woman was wonderful. But, in Venice, the man just said no credito and motioned me away. To me, that is not helpful at all.

When we were looking for our train at the Santa Lucia station, the man at the end of the track pointed me in the right direction, but not at the exact track; there were two. I asked which one and he just pointed, but you couldn't tell. All he had to do was give a bin number in Italian, but he didn't.

Then we asked a man that was wearing a uniform and getting off the train. He said he didn't speak any English. But looked at my ticket and pointed out the train. Then he noticed that I didn't have my ticket validated and pointed back to where the first man was standing. So I ran back up there and validated my ticket before running back and jumping on the train....literally. Getting my luggage up that first step was quite a task and no there was no one around to help me.

At the Mestre station, I did not go inside. We only had 10 minutes and it took nearly that long to cross the four tracks to get to the screen. That was where I had so much trouble figuring out which train because we were going to Florence, but needed to find the train to Roma. I never saw a single Trenitalia employee along the tracks. I think we finally asked someone who was standing around there for help.

I also double-checked with my friend. If you are walking up the steps to the Santa Lucia train station in Venice, there is a ramp on the left-hand side, but it doesn't go all the way up to the top step. Someone mentioned that I was wrong. If so, please give better instructions to where the ramp is for other people so they can find it.

The thing about taking the train is that you are almost always in a hurry and carrying extra baggage and I think the stress can make things seem more difficult than they are.

We actually took the time to go to the Santa Lucia station the day before taking the train and it did us no good that time. But, in La Spezia we went a day early to buy our tickets and it did help.

The good news is, getting the train in LaSpezia to Cinque Terre and then from Cinque Terre back to LaSpezia and LaSpezia to Milan was not nearly as difficult. So, one bad experience and you'll probably know what to do the next time. But, maybe you won't have the trouble we had.

Even though Venice was my favorite, I felt like a lot of the workers there were unhelpful and somewhat unfriendly. The reason I didn't think they didn't admit to speaking English is because they were not even nice about not speaking English and they would said "I don't speak English" so plainly that I just didn't always believe them. Even the three policeman I asked for help (in Florence) said they didn't speak any English. Thank goodness I wasn't in any real trouble.

I don't expect everyone there to speak English just to be there to assist me. I just thought they were kind of unhelpful about it. Especially when I compare them to the people on the street that later went out of their way to help me even though they didn't speak English. You'll see some of that in my Tuscany report.

Mayhew,

The SL train station is one where the trains pull all the way into the station facing the station. That means the trains pull in vertically to the entrance as opposed to running along horizontally to the entrance. I think I have that right. Anyway, it is easier to get to the trains in SL because you don't have to cross all of the tracks. You just have to walk back and forth to find the track you want and then down the track.

At Mestre, the tracks are horizontal to the station and you have to cross all of the tracks. I didn't see a subway crossing there, but there may have been one. I didn't know about them until later.

I didn't see a porter, but I didn't ask for one either. I would suggest knowing how to ask for one in Italian. We were at SL very early in the morning and there weren't many people around. Any other time that I needed help, someone would assist me even if it wasn't Trenitalia personnel.

The subway crossing in La Spezia had an elevator up against the station, but the elevator on the tracks was out of order.

I didn't see an elevator at the stations in the Cinque Terre.

Sounds like you did a lot and had a great time. But I'm sorry you missed the greatest joy of Venice.
You never got lost!

modglila, Wow is all I can say. You don't often see such an honest trip report. I appreciate it! I am leaving next Thursday for a 3 week trip to Italy. I am leading a group of much older than I am art friends. I have only been a handful of times myself so I am no expert. Thank you so much for your report on Venice train. We too will be traveling that route and I appreciate knowing how difficult it may be. We will allow plenty of time to find appropriate "bin number" I have never been by train to Venice before. Sounds interesting???? Thanks again, Ciao Kim

Regarding honesty, it became a big joke to my friend and I, we just kept saying "It's easy"...."No problem"...and, "It's the same."

The It's Easy and No problem came from reading forums and It's the same is something we heard from Italians quite frequently. I think it's equivalent to "It makes no difference" or "No diff", but it sounded so catchy when they would say, "It's the same."

Another thing. I never heard the word please in Italian during my entire trip. I heard the word prego a gazillion times. In all of my tapes trying to brush up on Italian, I never heard the word prego at all. I also heard "basta" and something like "allura" a lot. Women were yelling basta at little boys. I thought they were cussing at them at first. An Italian friend of mine told me today that it means, stops it or cut it out or that's enough. Something like that.

I didn't get to the honesty part. When you travel a lot, these things are simple. This was my first time out of the country and things weren't simple.

I had a great time and will most likely travel again. I just felt exasperated because I kept hearing how easy things would be and they weren't always that easy.

Someone asked earlier about buying their ticket ahead of time. I asked that myself and even though it wasn't "easy" I wouldn't buy my ticket until I get over there. The ticket lines were never long, although we couldn't charge once we got to the counter. I'd be too afraid of changing my plans and being stuck with a ticket for a train I couldn't make. Someone said it's easy to change, but I'll never fall for that again :-)!

Good report. I'm glad that you are willing to admit that not everything was perfect.

It also makes me glad we didn't drive in Tuscany.

Missypie,

I'll always remember driving in Tuscany. Although we got lost a lot, it didn't make our trip any worse. Well, except when we were lost at about 8pm and it was dark. I'll have to admit that I was a little frustrated. That was our own fault for being so far from our home base so late in the evening. I don't think we would have had as much trouble finding our way if it had been light outside.

No one should reconsider driving because of our getting lost. It's not like we didn't find our way out. It wasn't so much getting lost as taking an alternate route. :-)

I can post my thoughts on Cinque Terre, but from the responses I have had on my Florence post, I'd thought I'd see if anyone really wants to hear it. It isn't all roses like I'm beginning to feel most people want to hear. I don't regret going, but I like to try to let people know what I had trouble with so they can avoid it on their visit.

Please continue!!!

As for the driving: On vacation, my husband is the driver and I am the navigator. He expects me to be instantly oriented, wherever we are; he revs up the rental car and immediately expects me to know which way to turn. When we get lost, things get tense. I think it was much better for our marriage that we didn't drive!

We do get a lot of perfect, rosy trip reports. I've never known whether

(a) people are embarrassed to admit that they messed up or were treated badly or flat out didn't like something that everyone else loves,

(b) they are afraid of being flamed here,

(c) they have such a great attitude that nothing bothers them,

(d) they don't want to seem like whiners, or

(e) they really DID have a perfect trip.

I personally like being told in advance about the things that are less than perfect.

Missypie,

I hadn't thought about the added tension if I had been traveling with my hubby. I was with a friend and we are probably a little more tolerant with each other than we are with significant others. :-)

I was afraid you were changing your mind based on something I said.

I'll try to post on Cinque Terre tonight. Then, hopefully, I'll have my photos all uploaded and ready for viewing by early next week. Everyone at work is bugging me to see my photos.

Lisa -
I hope you will continue with your trip report (either on this thread or the Florence one). It is interesting to hear about travel from every perspective. We are all different and experience travel differently. We learn from each other.

I personally did not have very much trouble traveling in Italy even though it was my first time. I say this even though:

(1) I was pickpocketed. (They didn't get anything of value because I had heeded all warnings. Thus this was just an interesting experience and not a tragedy.) and . . .

(2) the travel agent messed up our train tickets so they were for the day before we actually were traveling. (The train conductor was very nice and told us to find an empty seat and sit anywhere. There were no empty seats so we rode the entire way in the dining car. Very convenient for cappuccini and wine!)

I did mention both of these problems in my trip report (and a few others). However, they were just experiences on the way and simply added to the journey, rather than detract from it. At least that is how I look at it.

Just call me "Pollyanna". ;-)

Anyway, that is me and you are you and missypie is missypie, etc. We can still share experiences and enjoy each other without ragging on each other.

So, looking forward to more . . .
Linda

When we were in Italy last year, whenever we needed to ask directions, we looked for a young student. They are always anxious to practice their English and they are usually happy to help with directions.

Hoping to hear about CT, whatever the outcome. . .

TRIP REPORT - CINQUE TERRE and MILAN - LONG

Arrived September 5 - Departed September 9, 2006

We got to LaSpezia in the late afternoon and dropped off the car. The car place was tiny, hot and crowded. We had the coutner worker call us a cab to take us to LaSpezia Centrale.

We purchased our Cinque Terre card and were pleased to find that it covered the train all the way in and out of La Spezia as many times as necessary as well as between the five towns.

Then, we wheeled our baggage down to the baggage check and checked what we weren't going to need in CT. Again, very inexpensive and well worth the money. I think it cost 10 euros per bag for three days.

The bin where we were to catch the train in La Spezia had a freight train sitting on it. People started congregating and we all just looked at each other and joked about whether or not that was the train we were going to ride into Cinque Terre.

Every time an announcement was made over the intercom, it seemed like a train would roll through and we couldn't hear. But, eventually, the freight train pulled out and our train pulled in. This is the point in our trip when we started running into a lot of people that spoke English. So many people were asking us if we spoke English and could we tell them such and such. It was weird to be asked for advice, and even weirder to be able to give it. Many of those people were just beginning their Italian getaway.

We all talked about who was staying where and what parts of Italy everyone was visiting and where everyone was from. It was very nice.

In Cinque Terre, we seemed to be pretty spread apart. We got off in Manarola with two young girls. They said they were staying way up on the hill. We were staying in Manarola at La Toretta. Manarola has one main street and it pretty much goes straight up. We were very glad we had checked some of our luggage.

Partially up the hill, we saw the bus backed up and ready to head up the hill. He hopped on and rode the rest of the way up. It wasn't very far, but with what was left of our luggage, I was thankful for the lift. The road flattened ever so slightly at a small piazza with a church on the left-hand side. La Toretta was on the right-hand side. We got out and just like their Web site indicates, there were children playing soccer on the piazza. Those kids played in the piazza until midnight.

We checked into our room and were very pleased with our view of Manarola and the sea. The sun was falling low and it was lovely. We had a bedroom, a sitting room and a private bathroom. The sitting room had a bed so we split up each taking a room. The bathroom didn't have a shower like I'm used to having. There was no curtain and you had to sit in the tub but there was a shower nozzle. The cost was 110 euros per night and included breakfast of one very hard roll with an assortment of things to spread on the roll. We had yogurt, juice and cappaccino as well.

We ate at La Billy or Il Billy or something like that. A very small restaurant just behind our room. We had spaghetti with pesto. It was pretty okay. I added parmesan cheese and it was a little better.

After dinner, we walked to Rio Maggiore and back. The next day, we found that we hadn't really walked to Rio Maggiore, we had only walked to the train station. You have to go through a long tunnel before getting to the town, but we couldn't tell that in the dark. I just thought it was a very small town!

The next day we set out to explore all five towns. Since this was the end of our trip, we decided we weren't really up to hiking. We decided to walk from Manarola to Corniglia since it was listed as an easy walk. It was easy and it took about an hour or so to walk. The view was lovely and there were a lot of other people out that morning. Many with those pointed walking sticks. You could tell they were in for a day of hiking.

Once at the train station in Corniglia, we saw that a bus will pick you up and take you into the town. We opted for that over taking the stairs. In the town, we ran into someone we had seen on the path and she said the stairs really weren’t as bad as they look. It looks like a lot of stairs, but I don’t know how many there are.

Corniglia was a fairly small town and there weren’t too many people there at that time. I bought one of the cactus fruits, can’t remember what they are called, in a market. It was kind of sweet, but not a lot of flavor. We wandered around for a while looking in the shops, then took the bus back down to the train station to go to Vernazza. By then it was getting very hot and there wasn’t as much shade in Cinque Terre as there had been in the other places we had visited.

I picked up a schedule for the CT trains because I couldn’t quite figure out the schedule. Make sure you get one when you visit the CT because not all trains stop at each town. During the middle of the day most of them do, but there are some that are express trains that run from Monterosso to Rio Maggiore. The trains only come every hour and 20 minutes so it seemed like we spent a lot of time waiting for trains that day. The alternative would have been to hike between the towns.

Vernazza’s station is actually in the town. I liked that about it…no tunnel to go through before getting there. Vernazza seemed to be a little more shady than the others as well. There were more people, but Vernazza was my favorite town. We ate lunch down by the water on the piazza. I didn’t catch the name of the restaurant. There were at least four around the little piazza. We shared a pizza and it was very good. We wanted dessert, but we wanted what we saw on someone’s plate at another restaurant. The waiter at that restaurant said we couldn’t sit down for dessert. If you don’t order dinner, you can’t get dessert. A customer explained that it is the custom in Italy but that you can get dessert only at a bar. He recommended that we go to il Pirate for dessert. Il Pirate was his brother’s bar/restaurant. They were twins and very chatty. Il Pirate is at the top of Vernazza by the parking lot. We walked up there and introduced ourselves to the twin brother. He didn’t quite understand what we wanted except that we had been at the restaurant area by the water. He doesn’t think very highly of those restaurants. He was so funny going on about how much better his service was and how much better his food is and how much larger his portions are. It took a little bit to actually get any food from him. However, once he understood what we wanted, he prepared a wonderful treat for us. Some kind of cream topped with sliced strawberries. He also insisted that we taste his hot fudge with cold cream. He put it in a tiny cup and almost slapped my hand when I went to stir it. He said NO! Sip it like it is. He was a hoot. We decided we’d come back there for dinner that night to see if he was all talk or not. But, we had more to do that day before dinner.

So, we went on to Monterroso. That was a busy place with lots of sun bathers and swimmers. I thought the water felt a little cold, but I’m sure you would get used to it quickly. We crawled out on the rocky area thinking we could dip our feet in the water. The rocks were steeper than they looked so we settled for a little running stream near the rode. I took off my shoes and socks and sat on a small rock with my feet in the water. We looked at all of the different kinds of pebbles in the water. So many different colored rocks.

Since we had a little time to kill before dinner, we rode back to La Spezia to purchase our train tickets to Milan. We had forgotten to do so the day before. Then we rode back to Vernazza for dinner at il Pirate. The twin we had seen at the restaurant saw us coming and welcomed us. He offered us a table inside or out. We chose outside. The service was very good there. They really try to please you there. No other place in Italy seemed to really care about what we thought so it was a welcome change. They brought my Coca-Cola Light with a glass FULL of ice. That was a first in Italy because I usually only got a cube or two. He brought bread as usual, but the crust wasn’t as hard as most of the breads had been and the thin bread he served had herbs on it to give it some extra flavor. I ordered eggplant parmisan and it was delightful. We then hurried off so we wouldn’t miss the train because the next one came kind of late, at least for us.

Back in Manarola we decided to walk partially up the path to Corniglia where you could sit on the ledge and watch the moon rise over the hill. It was very relaxing. A group of Italian men stumbled, literally, up the path and joined us, uninvited, for awhile. They were funny, but it didn’t take long to figure out what they were up to. We didn’t want to go for a midnight stroll with them, but they just kept asking. We decided to turn in and they walked us all the way back to our hotel, only because they were parked just past our hotel in the parking area for Manarola. We sat out a little longer on the terrace of our room.

I forgot to mention that the walls are so thin in Manarola. At the top of the hill you can hear everything going on all the way down by the water. All of the sound rises to the top of the hill or something. It was too hot to shut the windows, so we had no choice but to stay up late. Then, at 7 a.m., the clock next to the hotel chimed. So, where I thought we could spend the most time sleeping in, ended up the place where I got the least amount of sleep. One of my few disappointments with CT.

My friend woke up with a migraine so I spent the morning and part of the afternoon alone strolling to Rio Maggiore and back. That’s when I discovered that the town is actually down through the tunnel. I noticed that they have a restaurant that serves bacon and eggs and hamburgers for anyone who is interested. They also had a laundromat. Then I took the train to Vernazza for lunch. I bought a slice of pizza and sat by the water in Vernazza for a long time. I took some time to check my e-mail at the Internet point. I sure like being able to stay in touch so easily. I didn’t realize the Internet points would be everywhere.

I went back to the hotel and met my friend. We decided to go back to Vernazza for dinner. Incidently, if I return to CT, I will definitely stay in Vernazza so I don’t have to spend so much time on the train or worry about the train schedule. We climbed up to Al Castello and made a reservation for 7:30 p.m. We sat on their terrace until they were ready for us. It was getting kind of chilly so we didn’t take the wonderful seat they offered us. My friend was cold so we ate inside where there was no view. I ordered the Fried Mixed Fish and a salad with dessert afterwards. The calamari was very good, but I only got one shrimp and two small puny little fish. I was glad for the salad and dessert.

We asked for our check, which is hard to get in Italy. They definitely don’t rush you like they do in the states. It was 8:50 p.m. when we asked for the check and we didn’t get it until 9:15 p.m. The train to take us back to Manarola was due in the station at 9:20 p.m. We didn’t think we would make it. We scurried along only to discover that the train was 20 minutes late. So, we sat for 15 minutes waiting for the train. There was supposed to be a full moon so we went back to Manarola to sit on our ledge again. Unfortunately, the clouds were covering the moon and we didn’t get to view it that night.

I haven't mentioned the toilets in CT yet. No one else ever mentioned them, but several of them are just holes in the floor. They are unisex bathrooms with a trickle of water. They do flush. There is a tread on each side of the hole where you stand. The treads are there so you don't slip I guess. I passed a couple up before I just had to give in and use one. It wasn't as bad as I thought, but I wouldn't want to use it if I was any older. I might not be able to get up. Okay, TMI, but I thought people should be forewarned.

We turned in so we would be ready to head to Milan the next morning. We were able to get a train that went from La Spezia to Milan without stopping in Genoa. We sat on the train with a couple from Australia and a couple from New Zealand. We had wonderful conversation all the way there. It was fun sharing stories. The couple from Australia seemed to feel a lot the way we did about Cinque Terre. Although it is quite beautiful, if you aren’t there to hike then it might as well be a day trip. The trains are for the birds…dirty, late, and not frequent enough. It appears that most of the local have moved out and rent out their homes to tourists. So, there weren’t many Italians in the Cinque Terre. A few, but not many. I wasn’t disappointed with Cinque Terre, just surprised at the lack of locals and the number of tourists. It’s become a well-known tourist spot. I’d still go back though.

Once we got to the Milan train station, we took a cab to our hotel. We would never have found it on our own. Maybe not that bad, but it wouldn’t have fallen into our laps like the hotels in the other places we stayed. Of course, Milan is a much bigger city. The Hotel London was the most expensive place we stayed and the least nice place we stayed. The room was a shoebox, but we were only staying one night. They also didn’t provide or offer breakfast. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Since we only had one afternoon, we hurried out to view The Last Supper and see the Duomo. At the last supper, we encountered a young couple who had just dropped in with the hopes of getting in. We had reservations. The young woman was so disappointed, that I offered her my ticket. My friend was as tired as I was and she offered hers up to. The couple was so excited and I’m sure they appreicated it more than I would have.

We walked down to…..McDonald’s and I got a Bacon Cheeseburger, Fried and a Diet Coke. Yum, yum! It really was pretty good. The bacon tasted really good. Then, we went to the Duomo. Wow, what a spectacular site. It looks like an ice castle to me. We went inside and then took the elevator up to the roof. We sat up there for awhile trying to cool down before going back down to the street.

We spent the rest of our time just sitting on a step people-watching. That evening, we went next door to our hotel to a Chinese Restaurant. It was very good. We got up early and took another cab to the airport. The subway would have been 15 euros each, but we just didn’t want to lug our luggage that early in the morning so we split the 90 euro cab.

I was hoping to get breakfast at the airport, but only a few of the food places were open and they were packed. We just went to the plane and they were boarding early. After sitting awhile, the plan took off and we left Italy behind.

We had a great trip and I don’t regret a minute of it. I learned some things that will help me plan my next trip. I don’t know where I’ll go next time. It may be somewhere in Italy, or I may try another country. We’ll see.