oh

South, when I travel in Europe, the loudest people I hear are from the American South. Not too long ago I heard a woman with a Southern accent in London complaining endlessly to a desk clerk that she didn't have the correct adapter for her hair dryer. Shouldn't Miss Scarlet have thought of that before arriving in London? Big city people adapt more easily because they have to do it every single day. It's the small town hicks that are obnoxious.

its

The trouble is that you don't notice the 99.999% of nice considerate, sensibly dressed tourists.<BR>I'm English and have often cringed at the behaviour of fellow countrymen and women. I bet people of all nationalities have had the same experience. These characters don't realise that they are ambassadors for their country and it's easy for foreigners to class them as "typical tourists."<BR>As for tipping, I think it is demeaning and that restaurant staff should be paid decently.<BR>BTW, there was recently a case in the UK where the courts ruled that owners are allowed to use tips added to credit card bills to go towards the staff's basic pay. If you want the staff to get the tip as an extra you need to tip in cash.

Oh

oh<BR><BR>I believe you, no really i do. No, I don't think you just made that up on the spot. No, no, seriously, I DO believe you.

Martha

Just to keep this argument going, everyone should read CIAO AMERICA! by B. Severgnini (sorry if I got the author's name misspelled, I don't have the book in front of me) He makes an interesting comment in one chapter about how easy everything is in the US -- how service is so trusting and efficient and easy (i.e. getting electric service turned on, or purchasing a car, etc.)compared to what one has to go through in Italy. Perhaps, Leah has something when she says that we're just used to top notch service and expect it. Of course that doesn't excuse bad manners when the service is less than top notch, but it might explain the demanding nature of some US travelers. Also, you have to remember that first time US travelers are so afraid of being "ripped off" that they may be taking a "flight or fight" stance over the least little notion of insult.<BR> Having said that, I was a waitperson once. It was the hardest, most physically demanding job I've ever had. I always give a big tip both here and abroad (even when the menu states that service is included.)<BR>

PaulineCampbell-Jones

Don't be rude to waiters, fast food employees etc... you never know what little 'extras' might accompany your meal....you won't spot em but they'll be there!!

xxx

<BR><BR>Thank you for mentioning that, Martha. I agree with you that perhaps Leah has something when she says that Americans are just used to top notch service and then come to expect it everywhere. All Americans? Of course not. But perhaps it's more likely for an American to have this attitude than it is for people in other countries who may not have such high expectations when it comes to service.

myview

Uh, excuse me, but we all as human beings have our high expectations, regardless of nationality, after all, you (Americans) are not the only ones who are civilised. The difference is some of us were taught how to behave when our high expectations are not met - there is a time and place for everything and in life, things will not always go our way - its just life. Alas, some of us, noteably the American tourists among us, seem to have a problem coming to terms with this. Hence the reprehensible behaviour towards wait staff we all have had the displeasure of witnessing at one time or another.

xxx

<BR><BR>But it's not true that we all, simply by virtue of being humans, have high expectations. High expectations are due, in large part, to what one becomes accustomed to. <BR><BR>You make a very good point, though, in that even among those who have high expectations, behavior differs when those high expectations are not met. Some people make a scene, while others remain serene.

Siobhan

If you were a boss and treated your employee in an unacceptable abusive manner and were rude and shouted at them they could sue you for bullying at work. Unfortunately when you go to a restaurant you can abuse the people who are working for you during your meal and some people find this acceptable? It is outrageous. I waitressed as well many years ago in a tourist part of Boston and suffered abuse from customers and non tippers as well as not being at my best due to exhaustion from peole who thought they were the only ones in the restaurant who deserved attention. <BR><BR>As for foreigners not tipping many who had never been to the USA assumed it was included and I know many of my european friends are paranoid about not giving enough and overtip! For groups of european visitors we used to stamp on the bill servis not included and it worked fine as we were left a tip. <BR><BR>I myself have witnessed people coming off tour busses in Dublin while I was having my lunchbreak in a cafe and I am sure they were tired and many people get a bit uncomfortable and cranky when travelling in new place but I have been shocked countless times and my friends all say see they are typical american and it is hard to convince them otherwise as I know they are not. Overall I am respectful to people in the service industry and receive great service because of this no matter where I am. I would like to see some of these abuse rude people do a double shift in a busy restaurant and see how they deal with difficult people. Manners get you a lot further in life!

orgy7

sorry too say but it's a class thing. upper class people, especially snobs don't mind ripping into supposedly lower class wait staff.<BR><BR>What high American expectation. all I expect too get is some kind of food like substance. quickly. I don't care if they are fraindly or talking in spanish about their babies mama. <BR><BR>

x

If anything, Orgy, it is the opposite. Upper class people (not only based on current assets/income) were raised with staff and taught to treat them with respect.

myview

That last comment is a load of rubbish. Just because someone may have had the fortune or misfortune (depending on how you look at it) to have been raised in a priveleged background does not automatically mean they were taught manners. Come on now, let's be real! In fact, it is often the case that such persons are the ones who look down on other "mere mortals" and think that they can treat them with scant regard. In my experience, it has usually been people of moderate or very litle means who actually have proper manners, probably because their parents and elders took the time to teach them what really matters in life - respect for mankind, doing onto others as you would have then do on to you etc etc

x

And my view is the opposite. Maybe in movies or literature or Democratic Party leaflets the "rich" are ogres without morals or manners, but if you grew up in that environment you would think otherwise. You learn that it is not money that ties people to you but rather respect and trust.<BR><BR>Your mileage may vary.

Lesli

I think that people who've actually *been* staff (i.e., worked in some sort of service position) tend to be most respectful of staff. Those who've waited tables, bartended, or even worked as a bank teller, sales clerk, or any other job that involves dealing with the public are aware that it's a pretty thankless task. Rudeness from customers is unfortunately just part of the job, at least here in the US.<BR><BR>I'm constantly stunned at the complete lack of civility I see around me on a daily basis. People will just push through a crowded bus, rather than say "pardon me." They will walk up to the deli counter and not even say "hello," but immediately say "I need a ....." No please, no thank you, no may I, or even "I'd like." (I don't think you NEED much of anything, and the fact that it is someone's job to get it for you doesn't mean that you can't ask nicely.) Also: no glance back to see if the door they failed to hold open is slamming in the face of the person behind them. Nor any thanks from the person for whom I held the door.<BR><BR>And don't get me started on the young, able-bodied person next to me on the bus home who failed to offer his/her seat to the elderly or pregant woman standing right next to him. Or the yuppie chatting *loudly* about nothing of interest or import on her mobile phone for the entire trip. Or the pack of teenagers *loudly* talking in a stream of obscenities, with complete disregard for the fact that small children, little old ladies, and virtually everyone else around them is offended and unable to escape.<BR><BR>I love living in a big city, but it is a revelation traveling outside the States, where things are more formal, but also far more polite and respectful.

i

So it's the democrats that are rude. Where is Uncle Sam when we need him

Lea

This is so silly. Of course, if you are an American you hear other Americans speaking English so you zero in to what they are saying or doing. If their conversation is loud enough to be heard, they are probably complaining or living it up, in any way they will make an impression on you. If they are speaking a foreign language, how do you know what they are saying, including complaints? <BR>Don't be so willing to bash yourselves, Americans.