Travelling Around Western Europe
 

Hi,
Just came across this website by chance, I need some advice as I am relatively new to this 'travelling thing!' I route is as follows; Barcelona, Valencia, Rome, Florence, Ferrara, Venice, Salzburg, Vienna, Prague then Berlin. I am going by train up Italy and into Austria and onto Prague then Berlin. Where do I find information on trains? Can i go by train from Venice to Salzburg? How long will these journeys be? Do I pre-book them? Is it really expsensive? Please help me! Thanks Kelly

Hi, and welcome to the forum... I see that you are brand new here - - how do I know that (besides what you say about your own "newness"?) - - click on your own name. This is a valuable tip that Fodors fails to give you when they send you that initial e-mail confirming your registration.

You'll find that some (many?) people here will cringe at your itinerary - - but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, that you have 30-45 days for this itinerary?

And perhaps you have had soe help in planning this already - - you seem knowledgeable enough, for example, to habve planned open jaw air travel to/from Barcelona/Berlin...

... does this also mean that someone has helped you find transportation choices for Valencia->Rome? there are several, and one place to start is www.whichbudget.com

Much of the rest of this travel (by train, especially in Italy) will be cheapest if you simply wait to get to Italy to buy it all. Search for "GAC" here on this forum, and look for message threads about how many of these routes can be traveled for only 15 euro.

Train from Venice to Salzburg? Absolutely. Many people like the info available at www.bahn.de (even though you only have one route into Germany) - - the website www.railsaver.com is also useful for fares (but not schedules) - -make sure you click on "only if it saves me money" if you are thinking that a rail pass might be worth purchasing.

Are you traveling solo? I hope that your schedule allows for a little more time in smaller towns and rural areas, even at the expense of reduced time in some of these (big) cities.

You may wish to come back and post questions more specific to individual segments of this trip. there is so much to say about every one of the places you are going.

When is this trip? Do you speak Italian or German? and are you working on learning some of one or the other (or both?)

I have as many questions of you as you have of "us"!

Best wishes,

Rex

Hi K,

How many weeks do you have planned for this journey?

Train schedules are at http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

To see if you should buy a railpass, enter your itinerary at www.railsaver.com, click "only if it saves money".

((I))

I have just over 4 weeks to complete my journey I am teaching myself some Italian, which i am hoping to remember when i get there!
I have allowed myself at least 3 days in each place, longer in some places and less in others, depending on my interest.
I am flying from Valencia to Rome, managed to get a really cheap flight - £10! so I am spending a week in Spain, then over to Italy, Austria, Prague and Berlin!

Do you not think this is a good plan of mine??

I have orgainised it pretty well, booked most of my accomodation, having difficulty with Venice and Salzburg - cannot make a decision!
I have looked on Trenitalia, looks quite expensive though!
How much money should I budget for travel?
Thanks!

Yes, I think you have an excellent foundation of a plan. Four weeks will be a goodly length of time; in fact - - is this your first trip to Europe? I am generally trying to talk people OUT of spending more than three (or four) weeks on their first trip to europe anyhow!

And congrats on that Valencia-Rome flight!

What is your decision/struggle about Venice-Salzburg? You can't do it affordably by rental car - - but you could train just to Klagenfurt, and then rent a car for your Austria travels.

Or... and this might sound moderately crazy - - perhaps only makes sense if you are two or three (drivers) or more... fly from Venice to Berlin (or Munich, but there don't seem to be good flights from Italy to Munich), and then make your D/CZ/A travels one big loop (or partial circle) that originates and returns to Berlin.

Now that I think of it, I think you could reach Munich by train just about as quickly as Salzburg - - and then you could do the semi-circle drive from Munich to Salzburg to Vienna (or skip Vienna in favor of more rural Germany, Austria, CZ en route to Prague) and end up in Berlin with no drop charge.

How much "flexibility" do you need/want?
How much do you enjoy driving?
How much do you like paying for petrol, car insurance, tolls on some autoroutes,etc?

I just think you need to add those considerations in when you decide how to travel from one place to another.

I greatly differ from Rex in that I would never presume to talk anyone "out" of spending as much time as THEY feel they can/want, etc. to spend, especially in Europe. Hey if you can spend YEARS there by all means do so!!!

I agree with Ira's recommendation of using the GermanRail site to check train schedules..it is comprehensive enough that you do not, IMO, need to check the Italian Railways site and the Austrian Railways site separately, especially for the routes you have planned.

I assume your actual difficulty with Venice Salzburg is in finding accommodations rather than the train trip between these two..is that correct?

If so, also assume you have used a booking engine such as Venere.com or HotelBook.com or Utell.com to look for places to stay?

Rex is correct in that you can reach Munich as easily as Salzburg..the Salzburg destination usually requires a change of train (assuming you aren't also changing in Verona which with the exception of about one train a day is the usual deal for the trip up from Venice)..but unless you realy want to go to Munich I would go on to Salzburg....to get from Salzburg to Berlin by rail you'll almost undoubtedly have to go through Munich anyway, especially if you are planning on taking the FASTEST services to Berlin which means ICE and all of those ARE covered by rail passes.

Frankly, unless you are planning to spend some time in Austria in places OTHER than Salzburg I wouldn't recommend renting a car; otherwise perhaps...but you seem to have made it quite clear THE places you want to see and I would strongly encourage you to stick to those as they will serve as a very good "introduction."

You can, IMO, do the so-called "in depth" and more in the rural areas stuff on your subsequent trip(s) to Europe.

Have a wonderful trip.

Personal preference but, I wouldn't rent a car if you are traveling solo or if this is a first trip to Europe. I'd definitely stick to the train (or cheap flights for longer distances).

<<I wouldn't rent a car if you are traveling solo>>

I quite agree. We need to know this.

I have been from Salzburg to Venice, and it was about a 7 hour train ride with one change of trains. It is a beautiful and scenic train ride through the Alps. Bahn.de has been the best train website that I have used. Tried to use Trenitalia's website last year and it made no sense! Maybe it is fixed by now... We didn't prebook anything and had no problems. Something I fould useful was to use bahn.de to search for all of the trains to my destination on the day I was traveling, i.e. print out all train times from Salzburg to Vienna. It came in helpful during times when we missed our train and couldn't access the internet. Also, rememeber that many cities have more than one train station and make sure you are arriving/departing from the right one! Have fun!

WOW! didn't expect such an amazing response from you all - much appreciated! I don't intend on renting a car, I am going to do all my travelling by train, thats for definate! I am also travelling on my own. Yes Rex this is my first trip to Europe - so excited!!!

With regards to my route I have about a week where i am not sure what to do, Im staying in Ferrara for a few nights, then do i go to Venice - Verona - Salzburg? Or do i not go to Venice and go straight to Verona, but I have about 6 nights and thats a lot for one place isn't it?
Although I really want to see the Italian Lakes near Verona- maybe i could spend a few nights there?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

I have to be in Vienna for the 9th and I leave ferrara on the 4th I really dont know what to do for this time inbetween!!
All i know is that i really want to see the lakes, and am very tempted by the sound of music tour in salzburg - (sad i know!)

Just about the long train journeys - do i need to book them then? and is the train system over there quite complicated? anything i should be aware of?

Thanks K xx

A single train ride that you walk into a station and buy a ticket is not complicated at all. But because you have so many countries and cities on your plan, I would have to say yes it is somewhat complicated. Sometimes on special trains, busy routes, or if you want sleeping accomodations then you may need a reservation.

<How long will these journeys be>? Depends where you're going from and to -LOL.

I would urge you to keep Venice on your intinerary. Because I found it to be an absolutely unique and magical place. It is also one of the easiest cities I have ever traveled solo (because there is no car/bus traffic and you can walk or take a vaporetto to most anywhere you want to go). It is also expensive so a few days might be enough.

<6 nights and thats a lot for one place isn't it?> It depends, sometimes in the middle of a busy trip like the one you describe, it's nice IMO to stop and rest and stay in one place for awhile. Just to give youself a week of not having to pack, check out of hotel, lug suitcase around, take train ride, lug suitcase, check into new hotel, figure out where things are in the new town, etc. (all fun stuff don't get me wrong but it can get old quick if you are doing this all every-other day).

>>>>
A single train ride that you walk into a station and buy a ticket is not complicated at all.
>>>>

yes, but you should "walk into the station" at least a few days before you depart to the next city, if possible. like planes, trains have limited capacity and often popular routes at popular times will be booked. at a minimum, you should book your ticket the day before for a longer journey. just showing up can be a recipe for disappoint, delays, and long waits.

Hi kel,

You have a nice plan for 4 weeks.

>..do i not go to Venice and go straight to Verona, but I have about 6 nights and thats a lot for one place isn't it? <

It would be a shame to skip Venice. It is worth 3-4 nights. You could visit Padua by train.

An overnight in Verona would be very nice. It is on one of the the routes from Venice to Salzburg.

((I))

you have to go to venice!! its one of my favorite cities, so beautiful-if you can fit it in,its worth it. if you have 6 nights you can definitley fit in a place or two comfortably. as far as the trains, i've never had any difficulty walking in and buying a ticket-i've bought tickets with minutes to spare (which i wouldn't recommend especially with luggage-lol!) if you have a seating preference than getting there earlier is better. have an amazing (and safe) Daniella

I'll top this thread with a bit of unasked for advise...

Pack light!!! Whether you choose a small rolling suitcase, a duffle bag, or a backpack, think thru what you really need to have along and bring the bare essentials. I would aim for 20 lbs. on this kind of trip where you will be moving around alot. Plus a 2nd smaller bag, a daypack or tote of some sort, with a weight less than 10 lbs.

Traveling solo with multiple train journeys I guarantee you will be very thankful not to be lugging around too much gear.

Definitely keep Venice on the itinerary, maybe 3 nts Verona/3 nts Venice? It is such an incredible place...

Rex - why are you "generally trying to talk people out of more than 4 weeks" on their first trip? and why the surprise at a new traveller knowing enough to book open-jawed flights?

<<Rex - why are you "generally trying to talk people out of more than 4 weeks" on their first trip? and why the surprise at a new traveller knowing enough to book open-jawed flights?>>

As to the first question, it's just a sense I have... that first-time visitors make a certain number of mistakes that cost them, time, money and enjoyment. A five week trip for a first-timer might cost double what it costs <i>me</i> (or you) to go for three weeks, yet provide no &quot;better&quot; trip - - call it the &quot;bewilderment&quot; factor, I guess. The problem is that you don't know what things you wish you knew... on a second trip, you will hve a MUCH better idea what you really do/see, you can/could/would/will do it in a less bogged-down way, and most likely save money (or get &quot;more trip&quot; for the money)...

...IF... you haven't spent all your discretionary money on the first trip (and can actually afford to go <i>again</i> without waiting an eternity).

I get the feeling that there are a lot of first-time baby-boom Europe travelers (but also &quot;tween-ty-somethings&quot;) who think they have to cram into one five or six or eight week trip what might be better done as two, three or more trips. They think they &quot;won't get over there&quot; again until who knows when - - and in so doing, make that a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As for first-time traveler knowing about open jaws - - I base that solely on my reading countless posts by prospective first-time travelers. You're right, hardly rocket science - - and many people will already know of their use from booking similar domestic flights for one reason or another.

I agree with both sides here... It is somewhat disconcerting to read a 10 city/country 4 week itinerary followed by a series of questions about use of trains. You'd think the research on transportation would be the first logical step. And I do agree 1st timers underestimate how much travel wears on you. I could easily spend 4 weeks in Europe, but I've done a number of trips now, and I would choose to stay only in a couple locations.

Flip side this person is enthusiastic and actually planning and researching things. Again I find the question how much should I budget for a bit late when a trip is already planned.

But benefit of the doubt... isn't that what we're here for (at Fodors)???

For Kelly, I say budget as much as you possibly can afford, seriously. Better to come home with money still in your bank account, then run out mid-way thru your trip.