mari

Need advice about traveling with dogs from Fl or NYC to Madrid. Two fly in cabin and (my worry)-2 in cargo. Am moving in Nov. and must take my babies but am scared of 2 large dogs-ages 10 and 11 in cargo but have no other choice. NYC to Fl was awful 3 years ago-vomiting, freezing, drooling, panting, shaking and hysterical. Please advise me.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I know this will elicit an outcry from all the animal lovers on this board, but, is there any way you can go w/o them?

StCirq

Dear xxxxxx: <BR> <BR>This person seems to be contemplating movig to Madrid; hence the request to move the dogs. But since the first request had to do with getting the dogs there and the second with getting the possessions there, I wonder if this is a plan well thought-out. If not, the dogs will be the least of the problems. <BR>

another

How about a boat trip?

m

First I would call (or check their web sites, if any) all the airlines that fly to Madrid from either New York or Florida and find out what their rules are. Then I would check flight times. The fastest route is obviously the best route. This should help you determine what airline will work best for you. in any case, you will need to have all your dogs' veterinary records up-to-date. I believe their last check-up and shots should be within the last 6 months. Also, you need to know what the animal importation rules are for Spain. They may require certain shots prior to entry that are not required in New York or Florida. Check in the dogs as late as possible so that they spend less time in their carriers. My experience involved shipping three dogs to Manila via Northwest. The staff were pretty helpful but some people knew more about shipping pets than others. Let me know if you need more info via this forum. Good luck.

xxx

Your larger dogs are 10 and 11. That's pretty old to be putting them through that ordeal. It may even kill them. <BR> <BR>My advice: Find them a nice home in the US to live out their very few (1, maybe 2?) remaining years.

Carol

First - the most direct flight. <BR>I would hesitate at their age also. I would recommend contacting the embassy in the U.S. for special papers to be signed by your vet to bring the dogs in-country; also, we used sleeping pills which the vet prescribed. They arrived groggy and a little upset because some idiot put them on the luggage carousel at Rome instead of putting them on a cart and bringing them out like they do in the States; they then slept it off for a day. Attaching water bottles is good, since they become dehydrated.

ger

Mari: <BR> <BR>Like StCirq, I am assuming that you are permanently moving to a new location. Big doggie person myself (Fox Terrier - 9, Airedale - 8) and understand your concerns. <BR> <BR>Your dogs are considered "elderly" (ie: 10 x 7 = 70), and therefore you probably have to be concerned about more than just vomiting dogs at the other end. I assume that the dogs will have all required shots and health checks and you are certain that there are no quaranty requirements at the other end - i.e. you will walk away WITH your dogs at the end of the flight with no period of quarantine. <BR> <BR>I have read several articles recently on shipping pets, but un fortunately did not keep them. The bad news is that the RSPCA and equivalents in other countries are concerned about shipping pets - it is tremendously stressful for them. Also, several European airlines are thinking of banning the practice, for the same reason, unless it is organized by companies that specialize in "pet travel". The cost per pet for this service is usually the same, if not more, than shipping a person. As you referred to them as your "babies" (as I would with mine), I am sure that the cost will not be an issue for you as long as you walk away with them at the end of the flight. <BR> <BR>I did a quick search on the 'net" and found the following site, check it out: <BR> <BR>http://www.airanimal.com/home.html <BR> <BR>I am sure there are many more. I am sure these services have all the answers regarding tranquilizing drugs, shipping crates, quarantine rules at destination, injections dogs will need etc etc. Talk to your vet about dogs' heath (he may have to provide history of injections and will be able to provide the shipper with info on the dogs' health and ability to take drugs). The vet may also be able to provide a recommendation on a shipping company. <BR> <BR>My recommendation would be NOT to take elderly dogs on this flight (over 8 hours) without using a company that specializes in transporting pets. <BR> <BR>I wish you and your digs all the best! <BR> <BR>Regards …. Ger <BR>

mari

Thank you for all your concern and advice. I have already checked in Spain about regulations and with vet (he says they are fit for flight) but I have heard things from other dog sites that scare me and cannot afford a private jet. Airlines only allow celebrity or zoo animals on board-I offered to pay full fare to put cage on seat-no go. Boat sounds interesting-but not sure available. Lots of discussion means more research to be done. Leaving them behind is not an option! Thanks for the sincere help!

Judy

<BR>Mari: Being a dog person,I understand your concern perfectly well. several suggestions: <BR>There are some cargo ships take passengers crossing Atlantic Ocean,Traveltips newsletter has all the info (1-800-228-2330), probably you could look into it. <BR>One branch of the company I work for transporting breeding stocks all over the world by using air cargo only for animals. Since these animals are extremely valuable, the conditions on the flight are very good, If you don't mind flying seperately, probably this will work out.

Andrea

I am travelling w/ my dog to Barcelona next week, though only for vacation, not to stay. The only requirement is that he have a rabies shot no longer than 1 yr. ago and no shorter than 30 days. Also a health certificates from Spain that your vet should have or easily obtain. Also, I've read that south of france/spain areas are a slight risk for lime disease, so I would suggest a lime shot. <BR>I've travelled to France and Italy with Desi, and they are VERY dog friendly. Allowing them in restaurants, clubs etc. Would you happen to know if Barcelona/Spain is the same way, as far as having them in cafe's, restaurants the same way they do in Paris?

Cheryl Z.

<BR>Mari, <BR>Being in the pet-care business and having flown with my big dogs alot, your past experience concerns me and I understand your anxiety. I don't think any of that should have happened. I've never had any bad experiences and perhaps can offer some advice. Are your dogs pretty even tempered and stable? Well-socialized, able handle strange situations well? In good health for their age? Many dogs (any breeds) are just simply more high-strong, overly sensitive, very susceptible to stress and no matter what the owner or vet did, would not be suitable for flying. Only you know your dogs the best, and can make the right decision. But here are some suggestions, if you haven't already done this: <BR>First, get the dogs crate-trained way before your trip - get them used to going in and out of their crates, take them on short car rides with you expose them to noise while in the crate. When properly crate trained, a crate is their safe haven, and dogs love them. <BR>To help in the crate training, you could feed them in there, give them treats, and lots of praise and rewards when taken out. <BR>Secondly discuss this again with your vet, and possibly with some experienced dog people (like trainers, exhibitors - a behaviorial specialist could help evaluate your dogs in person) in your area. Some anxiety is normal but the vomiting, shaking, drooling etc. is not. Were they tranquilized before? I don't recommend it (never have done that) BUT each dog is different. It's likely too that the tranquilizer would wear off by mid-trip and be of no use. <BR>How long will you be in Madrid? If not permanently, is it possible to board them at your US city, or friends could foster-care them?? <BR>I apologize if you've already considered all this and I'm of no help. <BR>Do you have to move in Nov? Traveling during a more mild time of year would be more comfortable for the dogs and ease your mind more. You can contact me directly for more info if you'd like - I don't want to put anything on here that could be mis-construed as advertising. <BR>I wish you the best of luck and let us know your decision and how it turns out. <BR>

Linda

OK, Cheryl, maybe you can help me. I have two cats who board at a very good kennel when I travel. I've done my homework and am comfortable leaving them at this kennel, which is run by two veterinarians. My problem: Getting my tabby TO the vets. I only got her about 6 months ago and we have become great friends. I did the bit trying to get her used to the carry case. Put it next to the chair I sit in all the time. Left the door open. Padded the floor of the case. Occasionally left a treat inside. She got quite comfortable with going in and out of the case and even took a few naps in there. So good so far. Came time for my last trip (her first). Picked her up to put her in the case and she freaked out. I spent my one-week vacation covered with scratches from the 5 minutes it took me to get her into the case. You would have thought I was asking her to impale hereself on stakes! And that was BEFORE I got her into the car, which did nothing to settle her down. In November I'm going to Spain for 2 weeks and don't want to go through that exercise again. (I know it was even more traumatic for her than it was for me.) What can I do to get her to accept the case for the 15 minutes it takes me to get her to the kennel?

Cheryl Z.

<BR>Linda, kitties can be a whole 'nother story! But I deal with those too. <BR>If she's already used to the crate (and sounds like she is), don't feed (or maybe just a little bit so you don't feel guilty) her the day you're taking her to the vet or airport, then a half hour or so before you leave for wherever you're going, put her food, maybe some smelly canned food, in the back of the crate, and let her wander in, then secure the door. Does she like catnip?? <BR> I say do it a half hour or so before you're leaving so that if this doesn't work, you still have some time to get her in - somehow. <BR>Also, it's easier to get a cat or small dog in a crate if you put the crate up on a counter or table, backed up to a wall so the crate can't move back. Then insert pet - well, easier said than done ! Try backwards into it too. Cats are very good at digging in with their paws on the front of the crate trying not to get in, and they're also good at not wanting to get out too by digging in and hanging on for dear life. (to get out easier, it's better with two people, one hangs on to the crate pulling it off the cat and the other grasps the cat and pulls out.) <BR> So, before trying to get her in, wrap her gently in a towel first, kind of binding her 4 legs and paws to her while you quickly "fling" her inside. Get her used to this towel, and being loosely wrapped in it way before you're going to do this. Do this while you're watching tv with her on your lap, wrapped in her blankie. <BR>And I'm sure you know this but make sure the nuts/bolts are tight at the airport before you turn her over to the sky cap or whoever will take her to the baggage area, and for extra security, attach a small bungee cord from the front gate around to the side openings. And it's better if pets travel on empty tummies. They can often go without food for 24 hours. When you arrive at your destination too, especially if it's the airport, make sure you don't open her gate til you're in a very secured and safe area. <BR>Remember too, part of a pet's job description is to make us lowly humans feel guilty, and they're very good at this! <BR>I hope everything works out for you. <BR>

you don't

I think it is cruel punishment to put animals in crates in the cargo holds of planes to take on vacation, and those of you who do it should not own animals. I can't believe that because it is "comfortable" for you that you think it is comfortable for your animals. Mari are you moving to Spain for good? If you are not, leave your dogs at home with a dog sitter, in familiar surroundings. <BR>

second opinion

St. Circ, we know how you tend to change your mind and "spit out your real opinion" on 2nd thought (the womwn's request for opinions about married couples' and travelling, remember?) Have you had a change of heart here also or is that your real answer? These anaimals are not "the least of her problems" they seem to be and should be formost in her mind.

PB

First I'd just like to say that animals don't travel in the "cargo" hold of planes.... they are in a separate pressurized compartment that is also heated. This is one reason that most airlines only accept a certain number of pets on a flight. <BR> <BR>I would also recommend KLM airlines - if at all possible. They are extraordinary with animals (especially horses) and have about the best record that I know of with dealing with them. <BR> <BR>To Cheryl: <BR> <BR>Great suggestions for crating animals ! I have a couple of cats (as well as two dogs) that hate to go anywhere in them. Fortunately I have a wonderful vet who comes to my house to give them all their shots at the same time (ah, France... where animals are treated royally). Sometimes when I have to take one of the cats to the vet because of an injury or illness, I upend the crate and gently lower the cat into it, then gently tip it back to its normal position - every once it awhile the cat figures out what I"m doing and grabs on with a paw....but I've gotten quicker than they are ! <BR>LOL ! <BR> <BR>PB

windowseat

outcry from animal lovers? <BR>Dont go to a zoo if you dont like animals being transported on planes. Those cute pandas didnt walk here.

anon

Check TAP (Portugal Airlines). They seem to have no restrictions on the size of dogs allowed in the plane nor on the number. Also, don't even have to be in carriers! P.S:I think it's freaky--dragging poor dogs around with you.

you don't

Hello windowseat, <BR> Unfortunately I cannot save all animals from unfortunate lives as a result of uncaring humans but maybe I can save a few pets from the good but unthinking intentions of their owners. <BR> Label me what you will. <BR> As for semantics, animals travel in pressurized CARGO holds.