Travel with another couple-Advice Please!
Jun 13th, 2007, 04:04 PM
#21
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We had a wonderful 2 week trip to Italy with friends and had such a good time we've had 2 other trips since then with the same couple. We did sit down and talk about expectations of hotel and food costs, activities. My husband did all the driving, not an issue.
We did change from staying out in the country to staying in towns. That gave us all a chance to wonder out on our own. Our friends were eager to set out early, so this allowed them to have an activity before we joined them for the day's touring. The best advice you've gotten in these posts are about that subject.
Our male friend kept a running tab on who had paid for a lunch, a cab, etc for the 4, and we traded expenses back and forth, trying to keep it about even at the end of each day or 2. I've travelled with others where we had 1 pool of money for meals, gas, entrance fees, etc. and just split evenly. We may pay a bit more than we actually drank with meals, but making it simple is worth it.
Having friends to share the sites, jokes and experiences have made those trips truly worthwhile. However, we have friends that I love, but would never dream of taking along on a trip. Only you know if you're compatible for a 3 week trip, trust your instincts and listen to the posts above.
We did change from staying out in the country to staying in towns. That gave us all a chance to wonder out on our own. Our friends were eager to set out early, so this allowed them to have an activity before we joined them for the day's touring. The best advice you've gotten in these posts are about that subject.
Our male friend kept a running tab on who had paid for a lunch, a cab, etc for the 4, and we traded expenses back and forth, trying to keep it about even at the end of each day or 2. I've travelled with others where we had 1 pool of money for meals, gas, entrance fees, etc. and just split evenly. We may pay a bit more than we actually drank with meals, but making it simple is worth it.
Having friends to share the sites, jokes and experiences have made those trips truly worthwhile. However, we have friends that I love, but would never dream of taking along on a trip. Only you know if you're compatible for a 3 week trip, trust your instincts and listen to the posts above.
Jun 13th, 2007, 04:16 PM
#22
I will join the chorus - can be great, can be otherwise.
We did 2 weeks in France with Scottish friends and had a great time.
Then did 10 days in the NE USA with friends and had an okay time and afterward our friendship definitely chilled.
Discuss, converse, dialogue, then do it again. Trial trips are good, but you probably can't get to someplace where your friends are the only ones around you speaking English.
We did 2 weeks in France with Scottish friends and had a great time.
Then did 10 days in the NE USA with friends and had an okay time and afterward our friendship definitely chilled.
Discuss, converse, dialogue, then do it again. Trial trips are good, but you probably can't get to someplace where your friends are the only ones around you speaking English.
Jun 13th, 2007, 04:41 PM
#23
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I feel that one good thing is to make it clear from the begining that you would not have to do every single visit or activity together. You might often go your own way let us say in the morning and meet for lunch .
Other times if you four agree to go to let us say a Museum you might go together, but at a certain point separate and plan to meet later at a designated place.
Then continue together or not, and have togethere a coffee in the museum's bar.
Other times if you four agree to go to let us say a Museum you might go together, but at a certain point separate and plan to meet later at a designated place.
Then continue together or not, and have togethere a coffee in the museum's bar.
Jun 13th, 2007, 05:05 PM
#24
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Every alliance must have a horse and a rider.
My suggestion is to travel concurrently but not simultaneously in lockstep.
By that I mean take the same flight over, get to your accommodation at the same time, but until you "break camp", each party should plan their own separate sightseeing itinerary. If the others want to go with you, fine. But make it clear that you have your own agenda, your own objectives for sightseeing, and your own meal preferences.
I even find it difficult to travel with my own son (age 47) unless we have a pre-set agenda. Like we met at a lodge in Canada one summer. He hiked his trails and I hiked mine. We had in common breakfast and dinner and dinner at the lodge.
My own parents tried traveling with relatives (once) and old friends (once).
The experiences were never repeated and the stories of disagreements became part of family lore, all negative!!!
Where the friends were concerned, the wife and my father could not even agree on how to boil water. She had an immersion heater and when bubbles formed on the coils of the heater she pronounced the water boiled. My physical chemist father just about had apoplexy trying to explain that just because water in contact with the coils was bubbling it did not mean the entire pot full had boiled. He even swished the coils around to make the bubbles disappear. Her response: The water boiled but you cooled it off.
If you want to travel with someone, I really suggest that you do it within the framework of an organized tour.
I know my wife has a friend that she has known since they were 14. The friend has a habit of ALWAYS being late for everything. My wife thinks she would drive us absolutely crazy if we tried to schedule anything with her. So we never have done anything together.
In other words, what I am saying is this: Set YOUR agenda. If the others want to come fine. Otherwise, I can see a nice trip being spoiled.
What it sounds like is that that they want your husband to be the designated driver and cart them about on their agenda. I would say to that "bad word NO."
We will travel with a friend this summer in Germany. But, the agenda is set. We plan to drive from the Tegernsee to Berchtesgaden and back. We have travelled with her before, and she is an excellent driver. We will make our little trip while her husband is playing golf. Then we will come back to the hotel for dinner that evening and everyone orders what he or she wishes.
We eat at the same time, but we do not have to eat the same things nor do we HAVE to do it together. We usually do, but nothing about it says HAVE TO.
Breakfast is when the spirit moves us.
And, we stay at a hotel. That way both parties have freedom of movement and schedule after we visit for a few hours.
My suggestion is to travel concurrently but not simultaneously in lockstep.
By that I mean take the same flight over, get to your accommodation at the same time, but until you "break camp", each party should plan their own separate sightseeing itinerary. If the others want to go with you, fine. But make it clear that you have your own agenda, your own objectives for sightseeing, and your own meal preferences.
I even find it difficult to travel with my own son (age 47) unless we have a pre-set agenda. Like we met at a lodge in Canada one summer. He hiked his trails and I hiked mine. We had in common breakfast and dinner and dinner at the lodge.
My own parents tried traveling with relatives (once) and old friends (once).
The experiences were never repeated and the stories of disagreements became part of family lore, all negative!!!
Where the friends were concerned, the wife and my father could not even agree on how to boil water. She had an immersion heater and when bubbles formed on the coils of the heater she pronounced the water boiled. My physical chemist father just about had apoplexy trying to explain that just because water in contact with the coils was bubbling it did not mean the entire pot full had boiled. He even swished the coils around to make the bubbles disappear. Her response: The water boiled but you cooled it off.
If you want to travel with someone, I really suggest that you do it within the framework of an organized tour.
I know my wife has a friend that she has known since they were 14. The friend has a habit of ALWAYS being late for everything. My wife thinks she would drive us absolutely crazy if we tried to schedule anything with her. So we never have done anything together.
In other words, what I am saying is this: Set YOUR agenda. If the others want to come fine. Otherwise, I can see a nice trip being spoiled.
What it sounds like is that that they want your husband to be the designated driver and cart them about on their agenda. I would say to that "bad word NO."
We will travel with a friend this summer in Germany. But, the agenda is set. We plan to drive from the Tegernsee to Berchtesgaden and back. We have travelled with her before, and she is an excellent driver. We will make our little trip while her husband is playing golf. Then we will come back to the hotel for dinner that evening and everyone orders what he or she wishes.
We eat at the same time, but we do not have to eat the same things nor do we HAVE to do it together. We usually do, but nothing about it says HAVE TO.
Breakfast is when the spirit moves us.
And, we stay at a hotel. That way both parties have freedom of movement and schedule after we visit for a few hours.
Jun 13th, 2007, 06:23 PM
#25
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Many of the other posts are right on.
* too much time togther with another couple in one place , especially the countryside where there is no diversion without driving
* seems like they want some things their way,even before you leave.
**Instead:
Fly to Rome for a 3-5 day stay
Pick up a car and drive to a small town in Tuscany,to be used as a base for a week of day trips.
Drive to Florence. Drop the car. Spend 3-5 days in Florence.
Take a train to Venice---3-5 days
Fly home from Venice
* too much time togther with another couple in one place , especially the countryside where there is no diversion without driving
* seems like they want some things their way,even before you leave.
**Instead:
Fly to Rome for a 3-5 day stay
Pick up a car and drive to a small town in Tuscany,to be used as a base for a week of day trips.
Drive to Florence. Drop the car. Spend 3-5 days in Florence.
Take a train to Venice---3-5 days
Fly home from Venice
Jun 13th, 2007, 06:30 PM
#26
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Your husband may like to drive, but I guarantee that after 1 week on some of those roads it will no longer be fun.
Whatever,--- when you pick up the car put 1 other person on the paperwork as a backup driver.
Whatever,--- when you pick up the car put 1 other person on the paperwork as a backup driver.
Jun 13th, 2007, 06:40 PM
#27
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I think you have a lot of good advice from the other posters. We (my wife and I) have traveled successfully with friends several times. Then there was the trip from hell. We had no idea it was going to be so bad. I can't explain it all, but part of it was simply the other wife's rather high pitched voice and never ending commentary. After a week we were ready to cut out own throats. With the husband, it was the money. He was so cheap. We had no idea. If we got to a place after lunch, he didn't want to pay the admission because he might not get his money's worth. Checks in restaurant were divided to the penny as was gas for the car. Actually, we had done things together before this trip and none of this had happened, so it was a complete surprise. Of course, afterwards we had no interest in seeing them again and they keep calling saying what a wonderful time they had.
Jun 14th, 2007, 07:50 AM
#28
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Thank you so much everyone for your thoughtful replies filled with good advice and insight. Made me think over the few conversations we've had with 'our friends' over this...and when I tryed to talk detail, their response generally is something like, "anything will be fine", with no specific input. Although they've travelled quite a bit, and to Italy too, its always with tour companies, like Grand Circle and others. They know we've travelled to Europe a number of times, always on our own; driving, trains, and always making all of our own reservations, spending alot of time researching plans (enjoying that part too - of course with the help of Fodors folks!). Previously we've suggested they join us on a cruise or meet us over in a near-by coastal town for a weekend getaway and I was specific about how its a perfect travel venue for travel with others as you really can separate and just get together for dinner or something...but they've declined in past. I guess bottom line is....we don't really feel comfortable with this current trip idea and now do wonder if they see this as an opportunity to be on a personalized 'guided tour' as they know we'll do all the planning, researching, driving, etc.! Think our decision has been made....now to get out of this gracefully!! Thanks again all for your help to clarify our thinking around this!! Safe travels!
Jun 14th, 2007, 08:11 AM
#29
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It's absolutely true that it can be great or gruesome - even both on the same trip.
People you like very much can become annoying once you're joined at the hip - and we all have "qualities" that become "failings" in the eyes of others, at least when experienced day in and day out.
Funny enough, when the group grows larger this can be relieved: you get to share part of your time with different people. One of the best little vacations I've had was in Paris, 4 of us traveling as singles, along with two couples. There were many permutations of the group every day, even the couples could break up now and then. When you became sick of shopping or museums or trekking to the next "must see", you could drop out by ones or twos to do something else. The last day everyone got to go do the thing they most wanted, with no hurt feelings.
Look at this as a dating experience: first you go out, then gradually spend more and more time together. Eventually you go away for a weekend - a b&b or hotel somewhere in driving distance - before planning a long trip where it's just the two of you. Apply the same logic with couples.
My folks once took a two week trip with friends with very mixed results. Mom and her friend enjoyed themselves immensely and became even closer. Dad, however, discovered that the know-it-all personality of the husband was only the tip of the iceberg of inflexibility and opinion. My Dad's vacation, therefore, was filled with tension. Until they got to NY, that is, where my folks stayed with me and their friends were in a hotel. Finally they had some time apart and everyone relaxed again.
The moral: go with the standard advice here and make sure you have time apart. You could go so far as to separate completely during the middle week.
By the way, in defense of the original idea, it's true that sharing a house or apartment and car makes a trip far more affordable. And if you're really suited to one another, it can be a lot of fun. On the other hand, I still believe that a country house can be a bit isolating - if you all haven't spent a great deal of time in Italy, you may be missing out on the daily life of a town or city.
Maybe suggest to your friends that the first week be in a town - anything from Rome to a smaller Tuscan or Umbrian town - followed by a week at the country house, then another week at a hotel location. Or check out some of the great Agriturismo or other country hotels, where you will feel less isolated. By the way, I like driving in Italy. But if you are at one base location for 3 weeks, you may feel like you're covering the same ground after a week or so. of course some people get to that country house and spend part of every day by the pool or just relaxing, which can also make a very nice vacation!
People you like very much can become annoying once you're joined at the hip - and we all have "qualities" that become "failings" in the eyes of others, at least when experienced day in and day out.
Funny enough, when the group grows larger this can be relieved: you get to share part of your time with different people. One of the best little vacations I've had was in Paris, 4 of us traveling as singles, along with two couples. There were many permutations of the group every day, even the couples could break up now and then. When you became sick of shopping or museums or trekking to the next "must see", you could drop out by ones or twos to do something else. The last day everyone got to go do the thing they most wanted, with no hurt feelings.
Look at this as a dating experience: first you go out, then gradually spend more and more time together. Eventually you go away for a weekend - a b&b or hotel somewhere in driving distance - before planning a long trip where it's just the two of you. Apply the same logic with couples.
My folks once took a two week trip with friends with very mixed results. Mom and her friend enjoyed themselves immensely and became even closer. Dad, however, discovered that the know-it-all personality of the husband was only the tip of the iceberg of inflexibility and opinion. My Dad's vacation, therefore, was filled with tension. Until they got to NY, that is, where my folks stayed with me and their friends were in a hotel. Finally they had some time apart and everyone relaxed again.
The moral: go with the standard advice here and make sure you have time apart. You could go so far as to separate completely during the middle week.
By the way, in defense of the original idea, it's true that sharing a house or apartment and car makes a trip far more affordable. And if you're really suited to one another, it can be a lot of fun. On the other hand, I still believe that a country house can be a bit isolating - if you all haven't spent a great deal of time in Italy, you may be missing out on the daily life of a town or city.
Maybe suggest to your friends that the first week be in a town - anything from Rome to a smaller Tuscan or Umbrian town - followed by a week at the country house, then another week at a hotel location. Or check out some of the great Agriturismo or other country hotels, where you will feel less isolated. By the way, I like driving in Italy. But if you are at one base location for 3 weeks, you may feel like you're covering the same ground after a week or so. of course some people get to that country house and spend part of every day by the pool or just relaxing, which can also make a very nice vacation!
Jun 14th, 2007, 08:46 AM
#30
I will second and third everything said above. I recently backed out of a trip in the pre-planning stages with a friend who said she'd just go and "do everything you do" except that she likes to sleep in late, has a one hour tolerance for museums, needs her 3 pm nap and has a tight budget for meals, as well as wants to see 2 weeks of sightseeing in 7 days. Oh and I'd do all the research and just tell her what she was seeing as we made our way through Italy. Clearly there's a compatibility problem here, at least for me.
You need to have a deeper conversation, just so that it doesn't become "Mr. & Mrs. OtherCouple Going On Onthegogo's Vacation".
We spend too much emotionally and financially on vacation, it's a shame to waste either and ruin a friendship in the process.
You need to have a deeper conversation, just so that it doesn't become "Mr. & Mrs. OtherCouple Going On Onthegogo's Vacation".
We spend too much emotionally and financially on vacation, it's a shame to waste either and ruin a friendship in the process.
Jun 14th, 2007, 09:28 AM
#32
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Hi onthego,
It sounds like you know this couple's travelling style and it's significantly different to yours. Yes, going on a cruise together would work easily but 3 weeks at a villa would make you the tour guide.
To get out of this gracefully, and avoid them suggesting a similar plan again I'd be gently honest and say that you know that you have such a different travelling style to them that you'd not want to take on the role of their tour guide as it might strain or ruin your friendship.
Suggest a cruise or weekend getaway again and explain that these type of vacations are perfect ways to spend time together without too much planning on your part.
Good luck! When travelling with others works it's bliss and we have some treasured memories of shared trips but when it doesn't it's miserable.
It sounds like you know this couple's travelling style and it's significantly different to yours. Yes, going on a cruise together would work easily but 3 weeks at a villa would make you the tour guide.
To get out of this gracefully, and avoid them suggesting a similar plan again I'd be gently honest and say that you know that you have such a different travelling style to them that you'd not want to take on the role of their tour guide as it might strain or ruin your friendship.
Suggest a cruise or weekend getaway again and explain that these type of vacations are perfect ways to spend time together without too much planning on your part.
Good luck! When travelling with others works it's bliss and we have some treasured memories of shared trips but when it doesn't it's miserable.
Jun 14th, 2007, 10:17 AM
#33
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Hi again onthegogo,
I agree! The major red light here is that they take tours and you travel independently.
My best friend tends to "go along with the ride" and I tend to be the researcher and planner. We travel well together because we are both easy going and have been friends for 30 years. Still, we talk about basic individual requirements ahead of time and agree on itinerary and money. works for us!
I agree! The major red light here is that they take tours and you travel independently.
My best friend tends to "go along with the ride" and I tend to be the researcher and planner. We travel well together because we are both easy going and have been friends for 30 years. Still, we talk about basic individual requirements ahead of time and agree on itinerary and money. works for us!
Jun 14th, 2007, 12:06 PM
#34
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We're facing our first trip with others (other than family) this fall, and this post has provided a wealth of insight. Thanks!
I'll probably post some questions of my own relating to our trip, which is a bit different in that DH and a colleague are going to Venice and Milan for some meetings; CW (colleague's wife) and I are going with. She and I will be free during the day - I'm SO excited about being able to explore Venice in depth, but it's their first time in Europe. So I'm already feeling guilty that CW will (i) have to tag along with me, as I explore every obscure church I can find (I'm fine with her tagging along) or (ii) need to find a tour she can take to see the "basics," as I don't want to spend my time being a tour guide to places I don't want to go to (I'm fine with being tour guide for places that I DO want to visit)...
But I suspect some of the other issues outlined here will crop up as well!
I'll probably post some questions of my own relating to our trip, which is a bit different in that DH and a colleague are going to Venice and Milan for some meetings; CW (colleague's wife) and I are going with. She and I will be free during the day - I'm SO excited about being able to explore Venice in depth, but it's their first time in Europe. So I'm already feeling guilty that CW will (i) have to tag along with me, as I explore every obscure church I can find (I'm fine with her tagging along) or (ii) need to find a tour she can take to see the "basics," as I don't want to spend my time being a tour guide to places I don't want to go to (I'm fine with being tour guide for places that I DO want to visit)...
But I suspect some of the other issues outlined here will crop up as well!
Jun 14th, 2007, 01:50 PM
#35
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"He even swished the coils around to make the bubbles disappear. Her response: The water boiled but you cooled it off."
Bob Brown, I know it might not have been funny at the time, but boy did I get a chuckle out of your anecdote. You have some great stories! "Every alliance has a horse and a rider." Wise words, indeed.
onthegogo, you are a wise lady to back out now. Your friends motives might be innocent and inded they may well have made the suggestion out of ignorance than exploitation, but the result on your friendship might well have been the same.
Bob Brown, I know it might not have been funny at the time, but boy did I get a chuckle out of your anecdote. You have some great stories! "Every alliance has a horse and a rider." Wise words, indeed.
onthegogo, you are a wise lady to back out now. Your friends motives might be innocent and inded they may well have made the suggestion out of ignorance than exploitation, but the result on your friendship might well have been the same.
Jun 15th, 2007, 03:25 AM
#37
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2 years ago we invited our friends from Japan on a 10 day trip around the UK with us. He doesn't speak English, we don't speak Japanese. She was an online ESL student of mine for several years and had visited us once in the States for about 10 days. Other than that, we had never met.
They always travel with tour companies, we would never do that. It worked out fine. Here is why.
This was "our" trip. We planned it and told them what we wanted to do. 2 days Edinburgh, 2 day drive south to Cotswolds, 3 days around Cotswolds, 3 days London. We all had a great time.
Was it difficult at times? Yes. But they were doing something they had never done before and we knew exactly what we wanted to do. Edinburgh and London allowed us to do some things together and many things apart. They couldn't keep up with us, ha ha.
We've invited them to go with us to Rome this year. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.
Now, with that all being said, for many years I ran a charter boat in the Caribbean, so I got used to having "strangers" around me for a week at a time.
dave
They always travel with tour companies, we would never do that. It worked out fine. Here is why.
This was "our" trip. We planned it and told them what we wanted to do. 2 days Edinburgh, 2 day drive south to Cotswolds, 3 days around Cotswolds, 3 days London. We all had a great time.
Was it difficult at times? Yes. But they were doing something they had never done before and we knew exactly what we wanted to do. Edinburgh and London allowed us to do some things together and many things apart. They couldn't keep up with us, ha ha.
We've invited them to go with us to Rome this year. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.
Now, with that all being said, for many years I ran a charter boat in the Caribbean, so I got used to having "strangers" around me for a week at a time.
dave
Jun 15th, 2007, 06:20 AM
#38
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In the past 15 years, we have travelled with the same couple at least 10 times. It is fortunate that we are very compatible. There may be some differences at times, but if you are easy going and accepting, things work out.
Close proximity does breed some disagreement, even between spouses. You have to be certain that the other couple is reasonable and even tempered. If you have any doubt, a short trip would be helpful. It also helps to make clear that you can do things independently at times.
We spent 3 weeks in New Zealand. I drove all the way, since he did not want to drive. Twice we had 2BR, 2BA apts. It all worked out very well.
We are now planning our next trip, 2 weeks in Southern Africa.
Close proximity does breed some disagreement, even between spouses. You have to be certain that the other couple is reasonable and even tempered. If you have any doubt, a short trip would be helpful. It also helps to make clear that you can do things independently at times.
We spent 3 weeks in New Zealand. I drove all the way, since he did not want to drive. Twice we had 2BR, 2BA apts. It all worked out very well.
We are now planning our next trip, 2 weeks in Southern Africa.
Jun 15th, 2007, 06:30 AM
#39
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Lexma90,
I remember a business trip my Mom took with Dad and his colleague and his wife (CW). Like you, the wives spent the days together while the husbands were at work. They spent 10 days in Portofino and Venice--every traveler's dream, yes?
Unfortunately for Mom, her travel interests were history and museums, while CW was interested in shopping. So Mom spent way too much time waiting while CW looked at every item in every store, without buiyng much.
I remember in particular the CW wanted souvenir 'shot glasses' for her three children. We're talking 20 years ago, so there really weren't shot glasses then as there are now, but plenty of grappa glasses in sets of six. Well, CW insisted that she only needed three glasses and kept looking and looking and looking . . . These were the days of lira--a set of six glasses cost less than $5. Tired of this folly, Mom suggested that they split a set of six, and CW finally made a purchase. Mom's three shot glasses are sitting in my china cabinet right now.
My Mom is shy and unassuming. I wish she had suggested they split up for part of their travel time together. When you make your trip, do build in separate time, even if it's just to go off by yourself and sit in a cafe.
I remember a business trip my Mom took with Dad and his colleague and his wife (CW). Like you, the wives spent the days together while the husbands were at work. They spent 10 days in Portofino and Venice--every traveler's dream, yes?
Unfortunately for Mom, her travel interests were history and museums, while CW was interested in shopping. So Mom spent way too much time waiting while CW looked at every item in every store, without buiyng much.
I remember in particular the CW wanted souvenir 'shot glasses' for her three children. We're talking 20 years ago, so there really weren't shot glasses then as there are now, but plenty of grappa glasses in sets of six. Well, CW insisted that she only needed three glasses and kept looking and looking and looking . . . These were the days of lira--a set of six glasses cost less than $5. Tired of this folly, Mom suggested that they split a set of six, and CW finally made a purchase. Mom's three shot glasses are sitting in my china cabinet right now.
My Mom is shy and unassuming. I wish she had suggested they split up for part of their travel time together. When you make your trip, do build in separate time, even if it's just to go off by yourself and sit in a cafe.
Jun 15th, 2007, 08:01 AM
#40
We have done it a few times and start b before the holiday with discussing the troops rations or what Mom would have wanted to know.
What is there view to beds, bathrooms, kitchens, eating out and money?
What do they like to do?
If these are not sorted then you start with the basics all wrong
What is there view to beds, bathrooms, kitchens, eating out and money?
What do they like to do?
If these are not sorted then you start with the basics all wrong
