Maira

To Name Withheld---How do you know you are been quiet enough (to quote you "-as quiet as possible?-")? <BR> <BR>To Becky---AMEN! <BR> <BR>To Bob Brown---I heard the theory that the men have a better handle on outdoor orientation from their prehistoric past as hunters. That's also why they can never find anything around the house....the women are better at that from their role as homekeepers. <BR> <BR>My take on travel partners: <BR> <BR>I spent a vacation with another married couple (both friends) in which she did not wanted to go into any museums, knew better than anybody every topic discussed, did not wanted to walk too much, and resented stops that weren't consulted with her first. Upon saying our goodbyes at the end of the vacation, she stated her desire to do it again. The best part of the trip for me was when I had the chance to tell her I wouldn't go to the corner with her again. I don't expect a call from them ny time soon.... <BR> <BR>Bottom line, never travel with friends, unless the transportation and sightseeing is been coordinated by SOMEBODY ELSE.....

Matt

Hello! <BR>When I saw this topic, I expected to see at least one story where someone was going to propose marriage on their trip or was on the trip with the one they loved, and the trip was a total disaster and the couple never spoke to each other again. However, there hasn't been one story like that yet! Thank God, since this is what I am doing this summer. Is there anyone out there that took a trip with their loved one and broke it off because the experience was so bad. What caused it? Thanks!

martha

It's not my breakup story, although I agree with your instincts that travel should cause a lot of them. <BR>Anyway, this breakup came VERY shortly after a trip that had been carefully planned: Day-by-day itinerary for two months of travel, including scheduled midtrip R&R break. Well, half of the couple took this to mean that that was exactly what they were going to do, no deviations from the schedule ever, while the other thought the itinerary was a way of assessing their interests and figuring out roughly how much they could fit in. They ended up visiting a lot of places they were too tired to enjoy, and person two realized that a marriage to this person would mean a lifetime of inflexible planning.

Bob Brown

to Becky: <BR>A noted anthropologist, whose name escapes me, once said the level to which any civilization rose was a function of the contributions and status of the females in the society. <BR> <BR>My mother-in-law, God rest her soul, once said that the male of the species was good for two tasks: heavy lifting and the propagation of the species. <BR> <BR>I guess she never met some of the great musical composers of history, very few of whom are known to be women. <BR> <BR>I don't know that I buy into the man the mighty hunter aspect of the interpretation. Modern research shows evidence that advanced ancient cultures prospered because of cultivated food supplies, nurtured mainly by the women. I think the differences in map reading skills between the sexes, if they in fact can be substantiated, result more from cultural indoctrination and, perhaps, to the differnt ways in which the two sexes process information in the brain.

Caryn

Oh my goodness!! I can't believe that comment about women and maps. I happen to be the best, most accurate, and fastest map reader I know and I am a woman. I have an outstanding sense of direction. However, I have met both men and women who were map-reading-impaired. I once drove to Florida and my TC was reading the map. We were on a secondary road which she swore connected with I95. When I finally pulled over so I could read the map, I realized that she had not noticed a whole other connecting road and we had gone miles out of the way. Yes, that was coincidentally a woman. <BR> <BR>I traveled for 6 weeks in Europe with a girlfriend after college. I spent many hours wondering why I had gone with her in the first place. We both could have killed each other during many times on that trip. I was constantly waiting for her. I waited for her to get up in the am. I waited 2 hours at the exit of the Uffizi and was just about to leave when she emerged. I schlepped around and around until she could find all natural food. I waited for her to turn the map around and position her body in the right direction before she could read it. I found that our tension was alleviated when we met other neutral parties to spend time with. Our friendship has never been the same after that (there are also other reasons for this). <BR> <BR>Here are some good suggestions when traveling with a friend: <BR> <BR>*Agree on an itinerary before you go. Agree to go off the intinerary if you both agree but stick to it in the event of an arguement. <BR> <BR>*Every few days spend a day alone. <BR> <BR>*Meet other people to relieve the stress. <BR> <BR>*Travel alone.

April

Re: ...great musical composers of history, very few of whom are known to be women... not that you said otherwise but I would think that would be because they were discouraged from doing so rather than from any lack of ability, wouldn't you, Bob? (This isn't meant to be "flak" by the way.) And here I go off the topic again. <BR>

youguess

I've been watching this post now for several days and I can't hold my tongue any longer. My husband and I were invited to travel with another couple last year to Europe. We questioned whether we could "put up" with the husband for 9 days, but decided we were adults and it couldn't be that bad. Little did we know the husband was a jewel to travel with, always on time to meet in the morning, considerate about carrying various necessities in the backpack, and approached the differences of France with a sense of humor and adventure. However, the wife was not so. My husband and I knew we were in trouble the first morning when she was 30 minutes late in getting to breakfast and then --- had to return to the room to "freshen up" for another 30 minutes. (We solved that problem by all agreeing the next morning we would leave the hotel at xx, do what you want to before that, but we leave at xx.) She proceeded to get lost at Versaille (sp?) and then blamed her husband for going off and leaving her. Forget the fact that the three of us were together the whole time. He was wrong and she was right! (Not really a positive moment for their marriage --- standing there fighting in front of the Palace, with people of all nationalities listening. Some things don't need to be translated to be understood!) This woman is a shopper and attacked the Champes-Elysee (sp?) with a vengence. (Personally, I think she was getting even with the Versaille thing! That little ol' Visa card didn't have a chance against this pro!) The three of us hung out on the sidewalk, people watching, while she expected every salesperson to speak fluent English. You gotta love the French. When she would demand something in english, they would just ignore her! She refused to learn or use the most basic french phrases for please, thank you, etc. My husband and I enjoyed every minute. One wonderful thing did result from this trip --- my husband (and her husband) thought I was an angel to travel with. (Of course, anyone would look good up next to the travel partner from Hell!)

cheryl

I think I would definitely avoid travelling with anyone who would be "grossed out" were you unfortunate enough to get a stomach ailment. <BR> <BR>I've been in Italy and missed most of this thread. Luckily, my husband and I are pretty much travel partners. However, I am considering going to London for a long weekend with my sister, and this thread has made me wonder if this is really a good idea. She hates to have an itinerary of any kind and gets irritated easily by things that don't really affect her. Until reading this thread, I actually thought she was the only person like this, I'm amazed to find out that there are other people who get irritated that other people iron clothes, blow dry hair, etc. Even worse, that people get upset by things others can't help, needing food, bathrooms, snoring, etc. Judging by responses here, perhaps I should rethink this trip.

elvira

Cheryl: I have traveled with my sister for the last seven years, and we are opposites (I am perfect, she is a complete foul ball). As you can imagine, we have our moments. How we manage to get along and actually enjoy each other's company is the result of: 1) admitting we have 'quirks' and not being offended when the other one points it out and <BR>2) TALKING about the trip before we go..I do the planning, but I always ask (and she always tells me)what she wants to do..none of that "no no whatever you want is fine with me" then pouting because we didn't visit the Interactive Garbanzo Bean Museum. <BR>3) Drinking

cheryl

Elvira- <BR> <BR>I love #3! I'm sure that one will definitely help my sister and me! <BR> <BR>I didn't mean to imply that I'm perfect, I freely admit to many faults (among them, I sometimes snore, and ALWAYS need bathrooms). But I'm not positive that talking things over will help in this case. My sister hates the thought of anything even vaguely resembling an itinerary. Even, for example, "we have to plan on seeing X (hypothetically the greatest painting, museum, or whatever of all time) on a tuesday because it's only open one day a week". And forget ordering Uffizi tickets in advance! My goal is to see some of London and remain the best of friends, I'm not sure both can be done! <BR> <BR>By the way, I certainly wouldn't want to miss the Interactive Garbanzo Bean Museum, can I order tickets in advance?!

martha

I found the Interactive Garbonzo Bean Museum a big disappointment: first of all, all the signs are written in Ceci, and second, the place was for some reason full of Scotsmen running around in kilts and tossing cabers through the display cases, the way all Scots always do. <BR>Cheryl, is your sister one of those people who does not compromise but does not want to do anything on her own, either? I once travelled with someone who believed that the whole goup had to do everything together even if only part of the group was interested in something. I'm wondering if there's some way you could ensure that you get to do what you most want and let her know that's she's welcome to join you. I.e. "I got us advance tickets to the Elvira Tequila-Tasting on Tuesday, but you don't have to go with me if you arent interested." Obviously this works better if the tickets are five dollars taher than fifty, and in any case you can probably only do it a couple of times before you alienate her, but at least you'd get to see whatever is your top priority. <BR>My sister and I have both elevated planning to a pathology, so I've never had to try this.

elvira

Cheryl: <BR>If you were to ask my sister "is Elvira perfect?", she'd respond "well in HER opinion, but..." and then regale you with tales of my faux pas, screw-ups, and weirdnesses. That's the good thing about being the older sister - I am deluded into believing I'm perfect. <BR>For an itinerary, maybe do one for yourself (as in "must sees") and then just announce "I'm going to the British Museum; wanna join me?". Has Sis indicated anything she wants to do? <BR>Oh, yeah, and London is a dandy place to try out #3...

cheryl

Elvira- <BR> <BR>You have me rethinking this entire trip as a pub crawl. Except, another irritating thing about me, I love wine, don't like beer. <BR> <BR>Martha- <BR> <BR>I'm sitting here at work giggling over your response. If anyone walks in, they'll think I'm crazy. <BR> <BR>After reading all these posts, I'm beginning to realize how incredibly lucky I am that my husband and I travel perfectly together! The only real disagreement we usually have is about whether it is really necessary to sample pastries at every single bakery we pass. Paris was his idea of heaven!

elvira

London is a terrific place to do the unplanned. Hyde Park is great for wandering, paddleboating (you can even hire horses for riding), and people-watching. Shopping is fantastic - Harrod's, Harvey Nick's, Selfridges, Portabello Road, Camden Lock, etc. The pubs are open all the time (they close some time during the early morning, but they pretty much are open all day) AND they do serve wine (there are also wine bars popping up). Lots of the museums are free (like the British Museum) so if you get there an hour before it closes, so what. Walking along the river (southbank), you can get a great (free) view of Parliament and Big Ben. There are boats that go up and down the Thames, some criss-crossing and stopping at different piers; they run all day long so just show up. There is a bus pass for the red double-deckers; hop on and off as you please. I've never used it, but it's recommended by the pros like Rick Steves. Buy an Underground day pass (zones 1&2) so you can zip around as the whim strikes you. <BR>**drink**

cheryl

Thanks, Elvira. Actually, I've been to London once before, which in a way makes it worse, since I know which things I absolutely have to do again! I could easily spend 8 hours in the National Gallery alone. (Can't imagine why my sister finds that irritating??!)

Anna

Just spent 8 days in Denmark with my mother. My advice is never travel with your mother. She got irritated about everything, including the fact that Danish people speak Danish most of the time and their signs and menus are mostly in Danish. What did she expect? She didn't like the food half the time. ("I'm very flexible--I'll eat just about anything, except fish, poultry, or beef that isn't very well-done.") Was disgusted that the plane trip took 8 hours, that one of the little inns we stayed at did not have a bath in the room (even though I told her it wouldn't), that I had to stop and call my husband and kids every day (even though I usually did it after she went to bed, at a phone outside the room), that Kronborg castle wasn't as ornate as Fredricksborg castle. The whole trip just seemed to irritate her and I think she wished she had stayed home. Oh well, at least it makes travelling with my three kids seem like heaven compared to travelling with her, and I m headed out West with them in 2 weeks. I know, that's a different forum.

diane

Don't know how old your kids are, but if they are anywhere between 12 and 21, be sure to let them know you aren't (pick one) paying $2000+ in air fare; <BR>driving 1000+ miles; visiting an area that may be a once in a lifetime occasion....to watch them sleep until noon. I learned you have to tell them ahead of time (even if that's not their normal behavior at home). Maybe negotiate for 9AM if you must. I'd promise if it was raining one morning, Dad and I would curl up with coffee and books and let them snooze in. Somehow, they were always happiest when we never had any rain! <BR>

anna

Not a problem. My kids have always been up with the sun. As a night-owl, it drives me crazy sometimes, but comes in handy on trips where we have lots to see and do.

wendy

ANNA! <BR>Please don't say that - my mom is going with me for a month on my backpacking trip this fall. <BR>

kimerley

I replied earlier, I am the hairdryer story. <BR>While we were driving around England for 6 weeks, we had the best weather. <BR>I would wake up each morning and say "oh what a beautiful day". Travel companion number 2 would look and say "there are dark clouds, it will probably rain'. This happened nearly ever day. Travel companion number 2 just looked depressed every time this comment was made. <BR>We would drive through villages and she would correct our pronounciation. <BR>I remember one day, I left our B&B in Chester early to go to the laudrette to do everyones washing. I cried all the way there. A lady in the laundrette took one look at me, made me a cuppa and listened to my pathetic complaints! <BR>Basically, it is the very small things which p.... you off. I got over it and had a great time. <BR>