Travel Message Board Scandal: how widespread is this practice?
 

This may be old news for many, but in early Spring a scandal rocked a very popular cruise travel forum which involved some ethical and legal issues. It appears RCCL contacted cruisecritic.com (which is owned by Expedia) and asked them to to put them in touch with posters who had posted favorable reviews for their cruises and who appeared to be experienced travelers. CC agreed to it and these forum members were then asked by Royal Caribbean to join a club operated by the cruise line known as RCCL's Royal Champions. Once you became a member of Royal Champions, you were invited as a guest on Royal Caribbean sailings and given other perks. The alleged quid pro quo for all this was that you were expected to continue posting on cruise destinations, reviews and travel blogs/online guides on various user-generated sites.

Do you think this practice is unethical? Is it really ilegal? Just in case, I do not know one person this happened to, but apparently this caused quite a scandal when it was first uncovered.

Authors do this with books all the time. You get a free advanced reader copy and then post a good review of the book on various book-selling website, your blog, or other places on the internet. I joined an author forum and was shocked at the authors who were really angry at people who posted poor reviews. They were also debating if you get an advanced copy of the book should you post a negative review of the book at all, many don't if they don't like the book, or the author's ask them not to post if they don't like it.

So, now I only read the bad reviews, because I've read too many bad books that got 5 star reviews.

I'm said to hear that the travel biz is into this too! I do know that on hostelworld.com some people were complaining about hotels in Istanbul where the owners were badgering the guests into leaving good reviews before they checked out. I didn't stay there.

I do not think it was illegal unless Expedia released the names of the posters without their permission.

I have long suspected that Menupages and Chowhound were filled with people with either a grudge or a profit to make. Then there there was the 50% who had no idea of which they speak.

Many times an author's blurb on the back of a back of the book is a friend or someone who has the same publisher or agent. The same is true for book reviews, sometimes you wonder if the reviewer is a long time friend or enemy.

The only time I see disclaimers is when someone mentions that they are working for a sister company of what's being reviewed.

It is not illegal, quid pro guo is one way that makes the world revolve and since they are not feeding at the public through, it is not illegal but unethical without a disclosure.

As I understand both cruisecritic and RCCL were forced to stop the practice when this was uncovered. The problem I have with this practice, whether illegal or not, is when those compensated posters do not disclose they are in fact employed by the venue (be a cruise line, hotel line, travel magazine, etc...). The fact is their opinions are NOT unbiased and that is deceitful.

More reason to be skeptical whenever someone says, "But I read it online ..."

I agree j999_9-- it saddens me because it sort of spoils it for other travel forums (such as this one!). You hope to get an unbiased opinion from a fellow traveler when in fact you may be getting an opinion from a traveler that is been compensated for going to that particular hotel/restaurant/cruiseline.

Travel is down so much, many in the travel industry are using questionable means to promote their products. I even find some properties with tripadvisor ratings clearly manipulated by phoney 5 star reviews.

Let the buyer beware

Like bookwurm70, I find this practice in the book world utterly despicable and find it in the travel world even more so, because travel experiences are usually more expensive than the cost of a book.

BC

Is it just the cruise lines?

I think you might be surprised at the percs and benefits for those who support specific hotels, resorts, destinations, even restaurants who appear to be "everyday" travelers and post on travel boards. Altho maybe not organized into a Club of "premium travelers" there are certainly those who are rewarded and rewarded well for their "loyality."

beachplum-- I had heard about compensated posters lurking travel forums to "refute" whenever a bad review of a cruise line was posted, but I admit to shock to read this extends well beyond that to travel magazines/restaurants/lodgings books, etc...I guess I was naive. I always took those posters as wackos.....it explains a lot.

I don't know about cruise forums but I do know that on Travel Message board forums such as this and TripAdvisor, hotel people constantly post as guests giving good reviews to their own businesses and they ask their guests to please post a good review on a Travel Board.
It is annoying and dishonest and just makes everyone ignore message board reviews.
I think if I see more than a couple of those reviews on one particular place, I would definitely Avoid that place.. honest word of mouth is so much more trustworthy.

this is really old news and already discussed to the max, sorry

I had some reason to think about this on my recent trip. I stayed at a small hotel where I had stayed two years ago. I had forwarded my trip report to the owners because we had been talking about this message board during my first stay.

While I was staying this summer, the manager called a restaurant to reserve a table for us, and she told them to "treat me well" because I "write on the internet". We went to the restaurant and the woman whom I assume was the owner kept coming around to check on us. It felt a bit odd.

Now I know that the hotel manager tells the restaurants she calls to treat her clients well all the time for various reasons. She thinks it gives that extra push toward good service. And there was certainly no promise to write well about either the hotel or the restaurant.

But it made me wonder whether I should leave out mentioning places that knew I had written trip reports when writing up this trip. I decided to leave everything in, but it did give me pause.

I read lots of recommendations here for various establishments by people who are long time customers of the establishment. And this is perfectly natural; of course we recommend the places we like and we keep giving them our business as well.

I just know, however, that having a relationship with the owners and managers of an establishment, I might think twice about writing negatively about them. And I might have thought about leaving out the establishment altogether rather than saying something that might come back to hurt people whom I have come to know and like.

I am not sure whether there are hard and fast limits of where to draw this particular line.

LLindaC,

This may be old news but don't forget there are always new readers to this forum and to travel in general who don't know about this, so can't hurt to post these things.

Karen

No, I agree. However, I would suggest the OP do quick research as this was discussed on several travel forums. IMO, you're not going to get much original thought anymore!

yea, this is news to me..... I was so naive, I had posted a favorable review on TA once and had someone who wrote to me with questions. When I wrote back, he said something about just wanting to make sure I was a real person and real reviewer; checking authenticity.

ncounty, I've had the same happen to me at TA. I still find TA to be a valuable resource, but it helps to read a lot of reviews there and thus develop the ability to read between the lines.

I've wondered sometimes if there are posters who are paid by restaurants in particular to promote their businesses on various travel forums. Sometimes you'll see an OP ask a sort of open ended question (I'm going to Capitol City, should I stay at Hotel X or Hotel Y and what sights are not to be missed?) then a poster will give a rave review of a particular restaurant in Capitol City and not answer any of the OP's questions. Could be perfectly innocent, but I do wonder sometimes.

I wish I had the link to the discussion about this, viajero2, because I couldn't agree more. I'm in a rush to get out of town or I would link you to that. Please also read the thread on here called "how to spot fake reviews"

I have found out about many schemes and I generally write to the manager for an explanation. Really funny responses!!!

If you watch Travel Channel they talk openly about hotel reviews - they stay there for free, and must write a review - and for them it's not necessary positive, any honest review.

Do you think travel guides mention hotels and restaurants for free? Somehow I doubt it.

Fodor's give us a book of our choice if our quotes are used in their guides. RCCL is giving something to people who already posted their reviews. Travel agencies give cabin credits if you book cruises with them. I don't see a big difference.

Now, if this is ethical or not, who knows! But it's good to know to make the next decision. I am thinking of RCCL cruise next summer, who do I contact to extort a bribe :))

While I am really glad that many have willingly posted on THIS forum to discuss an issue that is ALWAYS relevant, the OP is not about "how to spot fake reviews" (sorry....thanks to those who suggested research, but they obviously need to read the OP again...:-D).

The main issue I wanted to discuss involve the ethics of a company that would reward already happy customer to encourage their continuous support. Is is really ethical/unethical? When those this practice crosses the line?

Tripadvisor.com has started to place warning messages against properties they think have manipulated or influenced their ranking. Here's one of them:

http://tinyurl.com/laedsh

Bill

Interesting, billbarr. I'm glad that TA is at least pointing out the possibility.

You also have to wonder about the hotel's earlier way of responding to negative reviews. Does the hotel think that by posting their generic "thanks for the helpful letter" really makes us like them more? if they at least addressed the reviews points, I might think the hotel actually cared.

lcuy

Yes, their responses are a bit too much for me. Perhaps it's a knee-jerk reaction to TA's very public warning to folks who may consider booking rooms at that hotel.

Bill

the ethics of a company that would reward already happy customer to encourage their continuous support

unethical? I thought it was called "customer service!" Companies routinely reward those who are loyal - you might even participate in it by getting miles for using their credit card!

As far as "owners" writing their own reviews, that is a problem. I wrote about one spot that had some problems with "truth in advertising" and got quite a snippy email in response even tho I had made my "complaint" known while I was there and nothing was done - except a complimentary bottle of champaigne which didn't "fix" the problem.

Unfortunately what sometimes happens is that when someone gives a great review then it becomes the "in" place - at the expense of others who might be just as good or even better - and it becomes too crowded. then the OP can't get in! Way to shot yourself in the foot!

I recall being at a place that was awful - well, maybe not awful but certainly lacking for what it promised, and certainly a place I never would have chosen if the truth were told, and the travel writer, so called "critic" who was there was raving about how wonderful it was to anyone on the staff (and the staff were great - that wasn't the problem). We couldn't help but wonder if we were even at the same place!

I have been occupied with medical stuff and am happy to have this brought up as I did not know any of this.
I would not have surfed for it consequently.



Thanks.

amsdon-- very glad you find this discussion relevant.

beachplum- I do agree with your point about happy customers being rewarded. We have received discounts, special offers, and promotional items from companies we enjoyed. However, in this case, the company expected and had a way to track that these customers posted in fact good reviews in return. Not as "independent" posting as you would think.

Does anybody remember Dr. Abate? (about 6-7 years ago). He rented an apt to a Fodor's poster who then blasted his property upon return. Dr. Abate then asked hundreds of people who had rented properties from him to post in Fodor's the great experience they had. It was hilarious, unbelievable, quite the thread. Fodor's "pulled the plug" but even back then this was a hot topic. Just as relevant today.

I'm impressed with what tripadvisor is now doing. I booked one place after reading T.A. reviews and regretted it. Thanks for the link, Bill.

joe

Are they being comped by the cruise line to continue to post <u>honest</u> reviews or <u>positive</u> reviews? To me, that's a significant difference, but I'm not clear on which it is that RCCL expects.

The latter feels unethical. It positions prospects with false information. "I loved it!" is false information if you didn't. Of course, that can't be proven false, but still has a high sleaze factor. The former, to me, does too but I could be argued that an honest review is similar to a public customer satisfaction card.

I can't imagine either could be construed as illegal. Certainly not anymore than, say, a paid celebrity endorsement.

Dang it, I re-ordered by first sentence and now the rest doesn't make sense.

Turn honest and positive around. Comping for positive reviews much more unethical than for honest reviews. Neither illegal.

Would highly question CruiseCritic's commitment to their own privacy policies.

But if they've found people who already both love them and talk about it, then reward those people, is that really unethical?

Along the same lines, is there such a thing as a bad cruise on a major cruise line, if you're a cruise fan?

cocontom asked>> is there such a thing as a bad cruise on a major cruise line, if you're a cruise fan?<< Unfortunately, yes. We cruise every year, huge cruise fans. While we had the most horrendous experience with Holland America, it did not scare us away from cruising (as a matter of fact we are cruising the Med within the next couple of months), but it did discourage us from ever cruising HA. There are people who had a great experience with them and they will cruise them again. Such is life.

Astro Turfing has been going on for along time..

I find some websites worse than others..imo, Yelp is a joke and though I like Trip Advisor, it has it shortcomings too.
Expedia when you book a hotel or trip, afterwards will send you an e-mail if you would review the property or your experience..they state they do there on research on their end so you are not on the take.
Just read that a Plastic Surgery Center just was fined big time for having faux comments which turned out to be employees and friends.
Happens everywhere..Buyer beware!

OMG, Abategate, how could I ever forget it? If you type Abate into the search function at Fodors, it will bring up some old threads, although the long, major threads outlining Abategate are long gone. Whether for better or worse, there's still a functioning link to a Slate article, a "tell-all" of sorts. Abate rented a property to writer Michael Lewis several years ago (he's married to former Vee-jay, Tabita Soren)and Lewis & family used it during their (first, I think) stay in Rome. Lewis' article for Slate doesn't exactly paint Abate as the friendliest, most rational or hospitable vacation-home landlord in Rome.

Ksucat, your point is indeed very well taken. One must often take things one reads with a boulder of salt.

BC