neilf

My wife and I will be headed to England in March from Canada. This will be out first trip to the UK. The month may not be the most perfect but it is when we have the time/opportunity to go. For most of the trip we will be traveling in a rental car to hotels. For the last few days we will be staying with Family in Crawley.

I am very enthusiastic photographer. I am trying to pick places where I can view some amazing landscapes and cityscapes as well as get the feel for the culture in both the cities and small towns. I have done some research and come up with the following itinerary:

Day 1 - Fly in to Manchester and head to Keswick - Tour Lake District
Day 2 - Stay in Keswick - Tour Lake District
Day 3 - Tour Haiden's Wall and then head to York to stay.
Day 4 - Tour York - Continue stay in York
Day 5 - Tour Peak District - Stay in Hope Valley
Day 6 - Travel to Cotswold's - Stay in Cheltenham
Day 7 - Tour Cotswold's - Continue stay in Cheltenham
Day 8 - Travel/tour to Bath - Stay in Bath
Day 9 - Travel to Cornwall Area - Stay in Penzance
Day 10 - Tour Cornwall Area - Stay in Penzance.
Day 11 - Travel through Dartmoor National Park to Jurassic Coast - Stay in Weymouth
Day 12 - Travel to Stonehenge then onto stay in Crawley.
Day 12 - Tour London - Stay in Crawley
Day 13 - Tour Canterbury & Dover - Stay in Crawley
Day 14 - Tour London - Stay in Crawley
Day 15 - Open Day for a day trip somewhere. Stay in Crawley
Day 16 - Home to Canada from Gatwick

The staying in Crawley is not really debatable. That is wear my wife's cousin lives and we get a free place to stay. We are just trying to take advantage of the sights (london) that are close to there.

Both my wife and I are not afraid of the weather, light to slightly moderate hikes, driving, and being constantly on the move. We like to do road trips where we keep moving on so the amount of different towns doesn't bother us. We also really like the balance of cities and small town countryside. Too much of one (especially cities) and we get antsy for the other. We tend not to do guided tours as we prefer to just explore on our own because we can spend as long as we want at certain locations rather than hoping on a bus at a scheduled time.

For the photography, I of course am always looking for beautiful landscapes that can be mixed with awesome sunsets/sunrises. Storm clouds don't bother me because they only add to the photography.

There are other places I would like to visit (i.e. Oxford) but it is simply not possible to do everything. I have tried to find a balance. If any travel pros or locals can weigh in on this and possibly provide me with suggested alternatives it would be greatly appreciated. Although I believe you can narrow things down on the net, talking to someone who has experiences these places always trumps what you read.

Thanks and I really appreciate any input/suggestions people may have.

julia_t

<<For most of the trip we will be traveling in a rental car>>

Far be it from me to rain on your parade, but you will be spending most of this trip IN your rental car.

You are seriously underestimating how long it will take you to travel between places. Do you want to see any sights/sites/gardens/historic houses/stately homes/castles en route? Because you won't have much time to do so.

You like to hike? You will see so many wonderful photogenic landscapes if you walk on some of England's glorious footpaths - but you will have little time in which to do so.

You can't possibly tour Cornwall in one day. You can pick out a few places to visit, likewise in The Cotswolds. I live about 10 miles from Cheltenham, I grew up here, and still haven't seen all The Cotswolds has to offer. Bath itself has way more to see and do than the few afternoon/evening/morning hours you have given it.

I think you need to think about cutting out a few places, and spending a little more time in others.

texasbookworm

Good for you for having places you want to see and trying to get an idea months in advance. And also for being brave enough to drive on the "wrong"/left side!

I didn't do the "math" on what you listed, but as Julia says above, it is almost surely impossible or unlikely or unrealistic.

I know how you feel--well, that's sorta a presumptuous statement, but I know the desire to see as much as you can! I've planned such trips, so...

From my experience, here's what would help--

Whatever mapping engine you are using (google maps is a fine basic one), take the times suggested from point to point and DOUBLE IT!!!! No kidding. Then you have to factor checking in/checking out/parking/finding hotels/finding restaurants or gas stations or markets or whatever. It takes a LONG time to do the days you've listed that I'm familiar with.

I'd play with a mapping tool, see what kind of times you are really needing to deal with, and cut WAY back.
And don't plan to "tour" anything your first day; even if all the airline stuff works, you must expect some disorientation and jet lag and NOT a good idea to drive in a different way on this first day.

So plug in your destinations, double the times suggested, consider how long you want/think you need for whatever you are trying to see that day, and see how long your trip really takes.

It's possible and feasible to move every night or two, but NOT THE BEST PLAN. And you know you can't "tour London" in 2 days--you will have time for 2-3 major sites per day probably.

Decide what you MUST see and save the rest for next time!!!

(My favorites from your list, sorta in order from photography point of view--London, Hadrian's Wall, Stonehenge, Dover (the cliffs), York, and Bath--Oxford is HIGH on my list, so I'd say try to substitute it. And Cornwall is on my "one day" list.)

Havana128

You must love the interior of hire cars.

janisj

OK -- you are from Canada and are used to looooong travel days - right?

Great -- the problem is most of the areas you are visiting are 30-35 MPH places. That is no exaggeration. And in some places like the Lakes and Cornwall you would be <i>lucky</i> to make 30MPH on average.

A few days are not on 35mph roads. Weymouth to Crawley for instance is on major roads and motorways -- but it is still close to 5 hours w/o any stops (Stonehenge at least 90 minutes, Salisbury - about the same)

I'd get back to the drawing board and decide where you can cut back. Besides Crawley - which of these areas "musts"? Because as it is you have almost no time for hikes/walks.

I have been to every single place you mention - but NOT on one very short trip. You have essentially two weeks - but almost half of that is based in Crawley. So realistically you can do (some) of the northern bits - or - some of the southern bits. Not both.

ESW

I too am concerned that you are trying to pack too much into your itinerary with too many different overnight stops. England may look small on the map but it will take you a lot longer to drive between places. Also if you are wanting to take photographs, this can add a lot of time especially if you are waiting for the right light conditions.

What time are you arriving at Manchester? Are you allowing for jet lag? Keswick is a good two hours drive, much of it on busy motorways. Is this sensible? A thought - rather than drive all the way to Keswick on the first day, how about the much shorter drive to Chester which is a lovely black and white timber frame walled town and very photogenic. Spend the day exploring the Rows (I'll leave you to find out what is special about them) and the cathedral before crashing out for the night. After a good night's sleep then head to the Lake District.

To drive from Keswick to York via HADRIAN's Wall is going to be a good three hours in the car, plus time for meal stops etc. Although you can follow the line of tha wall by driving along the B6318, to really see/experience the wall and to take photos, you need to walk at least some of it. Are you planning on stopping at Housesteads Fort, one of teh best forts along the wall with its much photographed latrine block? You can walk along the wall from here, although the stretch west from Housesteads to Housesteads Milecastle does get busy and isn't one of the more photogenic bits. You might want to consider parking either at Cawfields picnic site (just north of Haltwhistle) and walking east to the next road crossing. This is about 2-3 miles return and there are really good views in all directions. You can actually walk along the top of the wall too. Alternatively drive to Steel Rigg Car Park and walk east from here.

From York to Hope Valley is going to be a couple of hours drive. What are your expectations of this day? Are you planning to spend all the day around the Castleton area (Blue John caverns, Peveril Castle and some walking) or are you intending to drive around? Are you planning to visit say Chatsworth House - one of the Great stately homes of England, with its superb gardens. If so this could easily eat up a whole day. There is also the delightful Haddon Hall, a virtually unchanged fortified manor house. Then there is the spa town of Buxton... You are not really doing justice to the area.

I'm not sure I'd choose Cheltenham as a base for the Cotswolds. It is a large town and, to me, not very exciting town. Have you thought about basing yourself in one of the smaller towns or villages instead - say Burford?

I think you do need to prune back your itinerary and try and build in a bit more time in fewer places. As you are flying into Manchester, the logiacal places to cut are Cornwall and Devon and possibly also Bath. Do Stonehenge as planned on the way from the Cotswolds to Crawley. Also add in Avebury with its stone circle and West Kennet Long Barrow too.

England is a place to savour. There is so much variety in the landscape and it is a shame to rush it.

janisj

>>I'm not sure I'd choose Cheltenham as a base for the Cotswolds. <<

I <u>totally</u> agree -- but w/ so many other 'issues' that need addressing first, I didn't want to pile on

annhig

i posted a long reply here, along the same lines, also suggesting that you cut Cornwall. where did it go?

Basically too much driving, not enough seeing and doing. By the time you got to Penzance it would be time to turn round and go back and you're not giving yourselves any time in Bath at all. if you keep that in, give yourselves at least a day there and drive to Weymouth via Wells - a beautiful and highly photogenic little Cathedral town.

So sadly, I'd cut it - and half of the rest of your trip too!

ESW

Another point... If you are travelling from Hadrian's Wall to York and are a keen photogrpaher, you really do need to build in a stop in Durham to photograph the cathedral. This is a dramatic setting high above a deep gorge. The classic photograph is from Prebend's Bridge across the River Wear and you have to walk to this. If time allows it is also worth walking along the river banks on the opposite side of the river to the cathedral for photos. Have a look herre to see what I mean:
http://wasleys.org.uk/eleanor/church...ral/index.html
The inside of the cathedral is a stunning Norman building - the best Norman cathedral in England but unfotunately they don't allow photography inside.

This is not possible if you are planning on a day from Keswick to York via Hadrian's Wall - another good reason to try and cut back on the number of places you are wanting to visit. In this case, less really is more....

RM67

I would pare it back to:-

Chester for your first night (that was a good suggestion)
3 nights in the Lake District.
2-3 nights in York.
Down to Bath/Cotswolds for 3 nights
4 nights in London
Leaving you 2-3 nights in Crawley - including a day trip to Canturbury, and hopefully the in-laws can cover the driving then to give you a break.

Scrap Cornwall and the Jurassic coast. Tbh I'd probably not bother with Hadrian's wall either.

ESW

"Tbh I'd probably not bother with Hadrian's wall either."

On a good day, the drive along the B3618 following the line of the wall is one of the best in the country It is a glorious roller coaster ride through magnificent countryside. The Wall is also a World Heritage site and definitely worth seeing. In fact I'd build in an extra night, say in Hexham or Corbridge to allow time to walk and photograph the Wall. That would then allow time to visit Durham, another World Heritage site, before heading to York.

janisj

Let's see if the OP comes back to respond to any of this . . .

We've had a raft of first timers lately who have posted very ambitious itineraries, and never returned to the thread (Unfortunately, they may think Fodors sends notification when there is activity on their posts)