Travel from Israel to Turkey... should I be concerned?
Jun 11th, 2010, 10:38 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Travel from Israel to Turkey... should I be concerned?
Greetings all!
I am going to be departing on a Birthright Trip to Israel next week. I have extended my trip so that I may work at a camp in Turkey afterward. I made all of my plans well before any of the tensions between Turkey and Israel intensified at the end of May. I am becoming concerned that perhaps my plans should be adjusted because of this. I am just wanting some other points of view (besides my local media) on traveling in this situation... particularly from Israel. It is so difficult to get any accurate information here in the USA.
I will be picked up at the Istanbul airport by a representative from the camp I am volunteering at. So at no point will I be traveling alone, but I wanted to know your opinions on being a Jewish traveler (from the USA, flying from Israel) in Turkey at this time.
Thank you SO SO much!
I am going to be departing on a Birthright Trip to Israel next week. I have extended my trip so that I may work at a camp in Turkey afterward. I made all of my plans well before any of the tensions between Turkey and Israel intensified at the end of May. I am becoming concerned that perhaps my plans should be adjusted because of this. I am just wanting some other points of view (besides my local media) on traveling in this situation... particularly from Israel. It is so difficult to get any accurate information here in the USA.
I will be picked up at the Istanbul airport by a representative from the camp I am volunteering at. So at no point will I be traveling alone, but I wanted to know your opinions on being a Jewish traveler (from the USA, flying from Israel) in Turkey at this time.
Thank you SO SO much!
Jun 12th, 2010, 01:53 AM
#3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you going to walk into Turkey and tell everyone how great Israel is and how wrong Turkey is for supporting aid to Palestinians?
All anyone knows about you is that you are a American, anything else is up to you to tell them or not.
All anyone knows about you is that you are a American, anything else is up to you to tell them or not.
Jun 12th, 2010, 02:13 AM
#4
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The question is completely legitimate and the responses to this request are somewhat glib and unhelpful. There is a risk (see advice in link below) and I assume you will have a stamp in your passport from the earlier trip.
I don't think I would rely on a message board to make my decision..
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-.../europe/turkey
I don't think I would rely on a message board to make my decision..
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-.../europe/turkey
Jun 12th, 2010, 02:58 AM
#5
In spite of the above post, here are some facts:
One of my daughter's Jewish American friends arrived by THY from telaviv this morning. My daughter met her at the airport and they sat around for an hour or so at a cafe until my American son-in-law arrived on a later flight from New York.
three more of their friends, some of whom may be Jewish, are arriving from America this afternoon, another couple tomorrow, and four more Jewish Americans arriving on Wednesday from the States. Except for one or two of our guests they are all Republicans including a few evangelists.
Turkish airlines has not interrupted its service to Israel and the Turkish government has not issued any warnings for Turks traveling to Israel.
however, the reverse may not be true.
One Jewish american friend who flew to Israel on Turkish Airlines, from Istanbul on the day of the incident or the next day was considered a suspect and questioned by Israeli security. Could it have been because of her looks?
Even if a man wears a skull cap or Hassidic clothing no one will bat an eyelid in istanbul or look askance.
Turks are basically not paranoid or zenophobic and people's religions or nationality is less important than which city or area they are coming from, and whether they know these people who live there also.
turks are also not very politicized because they have been treated as subjects rather than citizens ever since time immemorial, including the current time. To Turks, everyone is a victim of stealing and power hungry governments no matter what religion or country.
There are few Islamists, but their major issue is with the in-name-only moslems (all 70 million)who are not interested in fundametalist belief systems, looking at them as just another means for governments to milk them.
Sorry for the lecture.
But yes, My experience as a local resident, and my understanding of the Turkish character and the local and European media coverage, plus my experience on the Trip Advisor columns say SAFE.
One of my daughter's Jewish American friends arrived by THY from telaviv this morning. My daughter met her at the airport and they sat around for an hour or so at a cafe until my American son-in-law arrived on a later flight from New York.
three more of their friends, some of whom may be Jewish, are arriving from America this afternoon, another couple tomorrow, and four more Jewish Americans arriving on Wednesday from the States. Except for one or two of our guests they are all Republicans including a few evangelists.
Turkish airlines has not interrupted its service to Israel and the Turkish government has not issued any warnings for Turks traveling to Israel.
however, the reverse may not be true.
One Jewish american friend who flew to Israel on Turkish Airlines, from Istanbul on the day of the incident or the next day was considered a suspect and questioned by Israeli security. Could it have been because of her looks?
Even if a man wears a skull cap or Hassidic clothing no one will bat an eyelid in istanbul or look askance.
Turks are basically not paranoid or zenophobic and people's religions or nationality is less important than which city or area they are coming from, and whether they know these people who live there also.
turks are also not very politicized because they have been treated as subjects rather than citizens ever since time immemorial, including the current time. To Turks, everyone is a victim of stealing and power hungry governments no matter what religion or country.
There are few Islamists, but their major issue is with the in-name-only moslems (all 70 million)who are not interested in fundametalist belief systems, looking at them as just another means for governments to milk them.
Sorry for the lecture.
But yes, My experience as a local resident, and my understanding of the Turkish character and the local and European media coverage, plus my experience on the Trip Advisor columns say SAFE.
Jun 12th, 2010, 03:07 AM
#6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<<In spite of the above post,>>>
I id not say it was not safe, I advise that people ensue they are fully informed.
Turkey is no more dangerous than London, but go with facts, not opinions and make your own judgement. Where safety is concerned, I'm sorry otherchelebi, but anyone who relies on opinions from a message board is bonkers.
I id not say it was not safe, I advise that people ensue they are fully informed.
Turkey is no more dangerous than London, but go with facts, not opinions and make your own judgement. Where safety is concerned, I'm sorry otherchelebi, but anyone who relies on opinions from a message board is bonkers.
Jun 12th, 2010, 03:41 AM
#7
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't feel that my question was glib. I'm curious.
I guess if the OP is a man and wears a yarmulke that would be one way to tell that he is Jewish but usually men do not post with concerns/comments about traveling alone so I assumed the OP is a woman.
I guess if the OP is a man and wears a yarmulke that would be one way to tell that he is Jewish but usually men do not post with concerns/comments about traveling alone so I assumed the OP is a woman.
Jun 12th, 2010, 04:24 AM
#8
Fashionista, Are you sort of belittling the whole idea of the travel Forums, Fodor's, Trip Advisor and others?
Accordingly, people should not ask for information or advice , just post here for the heck of it, and those of us who try to give information, advice and views hoping that it will benefit travelers, post here uselessly, since people should not rely on our opinions or reports or info.
Thus this mean that the readers should take no heed of your opinions also? since your above posts were regarding safety, and many times travel advice posts have an underlying component of safety, even if unstated.
This could be an interesting topic for the lounge. "Are forumists shooting themselves in the foot" and "What do the Lurkers Say, regarding advice and opinions on the forum?"
Accordingly, people should not ask for information or advice , just post here for the heck of it, and those of us who try to give information, advice and views hoping that it will benefit travelers, post here uselessly, since people should not rely on our opinions or reports or info.
Thus this mean that the readers should take no heed of your opinions also?
since your above posts were regarding safety, and many times travel advice posts have an underlying component of safety, even if unstated.This could be an interesting topic for the lounge. "Are forumists shooting themselves in the foot" and "What do the Lurkers Say, regarding advice and opinions on the forum?"
Jun 12th, 2010, 10:05 AM
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for all of your replies! I am trying to gather as much opinion/ advice as possible in order to make an informed decision. I've had a few Israeli cousins of mine warn me against traveling from there to Turkey, but as an American just coming from Israel I was not sure I'd have the same issues as they might. I will be spending 2 weeks in Israel before my planned visit to Turkey, so I have decided to wait until I am in Israel to make my decision... I will "feel it out" from that side of the pond before I call it off.
Someone suggested that I can ask at the Tel Aviv airport to have a piece of paper stamped instead of my passport? That would be perfect... because my real concern was getting off at the airport in Istanbul with the Israeli stamp in my passport. They will have no reason to know I am Jewish (I don't wear any religious garb, since I am mixed race I don't particularly look Jewish and don't have a Jewish last name...). My passport is from the US.
Someone suggested that I can ask at the Tel Aviv airport to have a piece of paper stamped instead of my passport? That would be perfect... because my real concern was getting off at the airport in Istanbul with the Israeli stamp in my passport. They will have no reason to know I am Jewish (I don't wear any religious garb, since I am mixed race I don't particularly look Jewish and don't have a Jewish last name...). My passport is from the US.
Jun 12th, 2010, 10:24 AM
#13
Violin Addict, believe you me, at this moment, a thousand Israeli stamps in your passport will not cause a raised eyebrow at the passport control in Istanbul airport.
However, you are right to check out if anything has changed while you are in Israel.
The guest who flew in from israel this morning is now in my home for dinner, and she says she never felt anything askance upon arrival.
However, you are right to check out if anything has changed while you are in Israel.
The guest who flew in from israel this morning is now in my home for dinner, and she says she never felt anything askance upon arrival.
Jun 12th, 2010, 01:06 PM
#14
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand the poster's concerns. I'm sure no one could tell whether or not you're Jewish - but. . . Do you feel you would have to hide the fact that you're Jewish to feel comfortable? Is this what you want?
Jun 12th, 2010, 09:38 PM
#15
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How do you tell from appearances whethere someone's Jewish or from some other semitic ethnic group? like Arab?
The question, as put, is offensive. Do immigration officers in the poster's country mistreat arriving tourists on the basis of their religious prejudices? And if not, why does the poster think Turkish immigration officials are bigots or unprofessional?
There is a minuscule risk that, in the even of a Bombay-style Islamist attack somewhere in Istanbul, Jewish hostages (or hostages with Israeli stamps) might be treated worse than others. And, since Turkey is no more exempt from Islamist outrages than, say, Britain it might be prudent for a self-conscious Jew travelling from Israel to Turkey (or anywhere else in the Middle East) to request entry and exit stamps on a separate piece of paper. But it's probably too late for that now.
At Istanbul airport, the people selling visa stamps have no interest in anything except your passport type and the price you have to pay. The immigration officials you then encounter are concerned only that:
- You've got a visa
- Your passport's valid
- You show no signs of recent visits to countries where you might have acquired goods (like drugs) or training (in terrorism) Turkey doesn't want. Western arrivals from Pakistan, Colombia or Syria might get some further questions. Israel falls into no such group (and, BTW, close and amicable relations with Israel's Defence Forces remain the official policy of the Turkish military establishment). While it's quite possible that a Turkish immigration officer shares most decent people's contempt for the Israeli government, he'll lose his job if he treats an American (or Israeli) any differently from anyone else on the basis of his personal political views.
The question, as put, is offensive. Do immigration officers in the poster's country mistreat arriving tourists on the basis of their religious prejudices? And if not, why does the poster think Turkish immigration officials are bigots or unprofessional?
There is a minuscule risk that, in the even of a Bombay-style Islamist attack somewhere in Istanbul, Jewish hostages (or hostages with Israeli stamps) might be treated worse than others. And, since Turkey is no more exempt from Islamist outrages than, say, Britain it might be prudent for a self-conscious Jew travelling from Israel to Turkey (or anywhere else in the Middle East) to request entry and exit stamps on a separate piece of paper. But it's probably too late for that now.
At Istanbul airport, the people selling visa stamps have no interest in anything except your passport type and the price you have to pay. The immigration officials you then encounter are concerned only that:
- You've got a visa
- Your passport's valid
- You show no signs of recent visits to countries where you might have acquired goods (like drugs) or training (in terrorism) Turkey doesn't want. Western arrivals from Pakistan, Colombia or Syria might get some further questions. Israel falls into no such group (and, BTW, close and amicable relations with Israel's Defence Forces remain the official policy of the Turkish military establishment). While it's quite possible that a Turkish immigration officer shares most decent people's contempt for the Israeli government, he'll lose his job if he treats an American (or Israeli) any differently from anyone else on the basis of his personal political views.
Jun 12th, 2010, 10:30 PM
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flanneruk,
I am confused as to why you mistake my caution and curiosity for insults. I am merely trying to obtain information and opinions about something that could potentially affect me upon my international travels. The reason I ask is to become more informed so I do not make, like many uninformed Americans, overly-cautious, unfounded, and offensive assumptions about another country. I am currently surrounded by these assumptions from my family both in America and in Israel. As I do not want to blindly agree with them and cancel my travel to Turkey, I am trying to do some of my own research.
I in NO way think the Turkish are bigots or unprofessional. This is a ridiculous twist of my words... Additionally, I in no way indicated that the Turkish immigration workers were prejudiced or would act in an offensive manner toward an American or Israeli. I am more concerned about official national policies, warnings, or advisories against travelers from certain countries in times of unrest. I know that this is always a possibility here in America, and therefore may be possible elsewhere. This incident between the countries was extremely unfortunate, and has caused understandable tensions between these countries. What I would like to know is how these tensions are manifesting within Turkey with regard to travelers. Here in the USA we do not get much in the way of accurate news in this respect. What we see are exaggerated reports about extremism, threats, reduced ties between the countries, and protests. In my faith in the Turkish people, I choose to assume that this is not the entire truth, which is why I am looking for more information.
Thank you for your information about Visas and Passport stamps. This is very helpful!
Thank you,
Ashley
I am confused as to why you mistake my caution and curiosity for insults. I am merely trying to obtain information and opinions about something that could potentially affect me upon my international travels. The reason I ask is to become more informed so I do not make, like many uninformed Americans, overly-cautious, unfounded, and offensive assumptions about another country. I am currently surrounded by these assumptions from my family both in America and in Israel. As I do not want to blindly agree with them and cancel my travel to Turkey, I am trying to do some of my own research.
I in NO way think the Turkish are bigots or unprofessional. This is a ridiculous twist of my words... Additionally, I in no way indicated that the Turkish immigration workers were prejudiced or would act in an offensive manner toward an American or Israeli. I am more concerned about official national policies, warnings, or advisories against travelers from certain countries in times of unrest. I know that this is always a possibility here in America, and therefore may be possible elsewhere. This incident between the countries was extremely unfortunate, and has caused understandable tensions between these countries. What I would like to know is how these tensions are manifesting within Turkey with regard to travelers. Here in the USA we do not get much in the way of accurate news in this respect. What we see are exaggerated reports about extremism, threats, reduced ties between the countries, and protests. In my faith in the Turkish people, I choose to assume that this is not the entire truth, which is why I am looking for more information.
Thank you for your information about Visas and Passport stamps. This is very helpful!
Thank you,
Ashley
Jun 13th, 2010, 02:27 AM
#17
violinaddict, please check the thread i started yesterday on this general subject.
the idea was because of your post, the one about barcelona and a number of similar ones on trip Advisor.
When asking questions with alternatives, many people already have their minds made up, but are looking for justification and support. Some are so very lost that it will be hard for them to handle the responses if some responses are conflicting.
I hope you are of the third type, who will judge the information available outside and in the forums (keeping in mind that the forumists have really no financial or political benefit from your decision, either way), and make your decision rationally and in line with your wishes and desires.
Flanneruk, i believe that the OP did not want to insult. You must understand the pressure she has been feeling from her family who have a fear of the unknown based on local propaganda and PR of the israeli governmnt.
As i wrote earlier, the turkish primeminister is shooting his mouth off, and definitely losing potential votes. Israel wants to punish Turkey for supporting Hamas by telling Israeli tourists to not visit Turkey, and in fact cancelling the flights to Turkish resorts.
Turkish people, maybe stupidly, could not care less, they go to visit Israel (as lomg as it is not on a Saturday) and they continue doing business as usual. The only Turks concerned are the hotel managers especially in Antalya area, with over 50,000 cancelled reservations, which means some nice bargains for other tourists. Even Club Med Kemer has advertised for a reduced nightly rate.
the idea was because of your post, the one about barcelona and a number of similar ones on trip Advisor.
When asking questions with alternatives, many people already have their minds made up, but are looking for justification and support. Some are so very lost that it will be hard for them to handle the responses if some responses are conflicting.
I hope you are of the third type, who will judge the information available outside and in the forums (keeping in mind that the forumists have really no financial or political benefit from your decision, either way), and make your decision rationally and in line with your wishes and desires.
Flanneruk, i believe that the OP did not want to insult. You must understand the pressure she has been feeling from her family who have a fear of the unknown based on local propaganda and PR of the israeli governmnt.
As i wrote earlier, the turkish primeminister is shooting his mouth off, and definitely losing potential votes. Israel wants to punish Turkey for supporting Hamas by telling Israeli tourists to not visit Turkey, and in fact cancelling the flights to Turkish resorts.
Turkish people, maybe stupidly, could not care less, they go to visit Israel (as lomg as it is not on a Saturday) and they continue doing business as usual. The only Turks concerned are the hotel managers especially in Antalya area, with over 50,000 cancelled reservations, which means some nice bargains for other tourists. Even Club Med Kemer has advertised for a reduced nightly rate.
Jun 13th, 2010, 04:31 AM
#18
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey flan,
>why does the poster think Turkish immigration officials are bigots .....<
Because many Arab countries still will not permit people with an Israeli stamp in their passports to enter.
The OP is concerned whether this is true in Turkey.
According to wiki she would have problems were she wanting to go to Algeria, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.
>While it's quite possible that a Turkish immigration officer shares most decent people's contempt for the Israeli government, ...........<
That was not only unwarranted, it is also untrue.
>why does the poster think Turkish immigration officials are bigots .....<
Because many Arab countries still will not permit people with an Israeli stamp in their passports to enter.
The OP is concerned whether this is true in Turkey.
According to wiki she would have problems were she wanting to go to Algeria, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.
>While it's quite possible that a Turkish immigration officer shares most decent people's contempt for the Israeli government, ...........<
That was not only unwarranted, it is also untrue.
Jun 13th, 2010, 04:47 AM
#19
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe ViolinAddict has a genuine question and didn't need to be "put down" by flan. She wants information. Not insults. She never insulted Arabs or Turks. She is an American Jew and has some concerns. Get over it flan. Stop insulting her.
Jun 13th, 2010, 05:05 AM
#20
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,813
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The OP was a perfectly logical and reasonable question as ira has pointed out above.
Travelers with Israeli stamps in their passports have always (not just since the flotilla incident) had to consider how those stamps would be received by other countries.
Get a grip, flanner.
sashh, if you read the OP you'll see that the poster is going to Turkey to volunteer at a camp. Does that sound like someone who's traveling for proslytizing purposes? You say "All anyone knows about you is that you are a American..." It sounds like you only travel within your own country. Have you ever crossed over an international border? If you think they only know 'you are a (sic) American', you're sadly mistaken. At the very least, they know where you're coming from. And in this day and age of electronic information, they know quite a bit more about you too. And as soon as that scanning thing comes into effect, they'll know whether or not you get a bikini wax.
Some of you are so quick to make silly assumputions.
Travelers with Israeli stamps in their passports have always (not just since the flotilla incident) had to consider how those stamps would be received by other countries.
Get a grip, flanner.
sashh, if you read the OP you'll see that the poster is going to Turkey to volunteer at a camp. Does that sound like someone who's traveling for proslytizing purposes? You say "All anyone knows about you is that you are a American..." It sounds like you only travel within your own country. Have you ever crossed over an international border? If you think they only know 'you are a (sic) American', you're sadly mistaken. At the very least, they know where you're coming from. And in this day and age of electronic information, they know quite a bit more about you too. And as soon as that scanning thing comes into effect, they'll know whether or not you get a bikini wax.
Some of you are so quick to make silly assumputions.
