trains in europe
 

I will be traveling to germany in Decemnber. I'm a little confused about the rail passes. We plan to travel to Paris and maybe Amsterdam too. Someone suggested a Eurorail ticket. Is it the same as the Rail Europe Pass. Can I use the high speed trains?

Hi F,

Do not buy a railpass or any other kind of Eurail thingy until you have

1. Planned your itinerary and
2. Checked prices at www.bahn.de and www.voyages-scnf.com for point to point tickets.

You have to pay extra to use the fast trains if you have a railpass.

((I))

Hi florida: I'm leaving tuesday for Frankfurt, then Amsterdam, then Paris, then back to Amsterdam, then back to Frankfurt for home. I posted the same question, and got lots of good info, but,(&there's always a but), I found it easier to just fly. I got a flight from cheapair.com from frankfurt to Amsterdam & back, for &123.17, R/T, then a flight from Amsterdam to Paris, & back to Amsterdam, from vueling.com, for $154.28

So me being completely illiterate with the train-route-thing, this is what works for me. You can check postings on the Netherland site where so many kind explanations about this very subject is posted. Anyway, good luck.

Thanks- I'll check into it. Let me know how your trip goes.

Whether or not you are a fan of Rick Steves, his website has an excellent section on Rail Travel.
www.ricksteves.com

If you are only using the trains a couple times, likely point-to-point tickets will be all you need. A pass is of value to people who are traveling around alot more.

Germany to Paris and Amsterdam is a distance, I'd also look into flights as suggested above.

>I found it easier to just fly.

Well, it might soemtimes be cheaper, but what it is NOT is easy.

>I got a flight from cheapair.com from frankfurt to Amsterdam & back, for &123.17, R/T

Including taxes? Including the transportation from/to airport?

>, then a flight from Amsterdam to Paris, & back to Amsterdam, from vueling.com, for $154.28

Again - including taxes? Plus, CDG airport is far away from central Paris in comparison to Frankfurt or Amsterdam - add an hour to the transit time.

All in all, you will be in for much more hassle by flying either of these routes, you wil not save any time by flying, any flexibility you might have with a train is gone, and the money savings sound rather insubstantial.

But if you like airports - so be it...

altomaro: I'm sure your right. Not farmiliar with the rail options, to book a flight worked easier for me. I have to learn by trial & error, so after this trip, I'll know better what to do the next time. Thanks though.

and yes, it the flights, include taxes.

>I have to learn by trial & error, so after this trip, I'll know better what to do the next time.

I´m sorry that you had to find out this way. The Fodors forum exists after all exactly for this purpose - so you don´t have to learn by trial and error.

To the OP, you could do what you describe by walking into a train station and purchasing a ticket for that single trip.

Do you have to return to Germany at the end for a flight home? Or can you fly out from Paris or Amsterdam?

You sound like a novice rail traveler and for these i ditto www.ricksteves.com recommendation and also advise you to go to www.budgeteuropetravel.com for a lot of info on European trains and railpasses - especially good primer on European trains is their free European Planning & Rail guide that has chapters on each country's rail system, trains, rail maps, suggested itineraries, etc. They also have a 800-441-2387 number where you can ask any questions without obligation - i know of no other source where you can query European rail experts but if there is i'd like to publicize it as well. Rick Steves charges like $65/hr or something. The pass you are looking at or should be is the Eurail Select Pass good in Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg) as one country for pass purposes and France and Germany - a 3 country select pass (select means you pick any three countries of the 18 Eurailpass countries and thus get cheaper rates because you narrow your geographic scope. It's called a Eurail Selectpass and has exact same benefits as a Global Eurailpass (good in 18 countries) except only in those three countries. And yes you can use high-speed trains and every train in these countries with the pass. In France and on Thalys trains between Benelux and France you do however have to make reservations before boarding and the pass pays for the train fare but not the reservation fees - usually a few euros.

PanenQ speaks words of wisdom.

Call those folks at budgettraveleurope. They are extremely nice, very helpful, and won't sell you what isn't best for your trip. I used them this spring and was most impressed.

Let us know how the planning is going, thare are many, many helpful folks here in Fodorville.

MvK

For a novice train traveler there is a good introduction the European rails at http://tinyurl.com/eym5b, ilustrated.

With a Eurail Pass you can use the high speed trains but some of them, e.g. TGV in France, require a reservation. That normally costs €3, about $4. Except for a very few super trains in Germany reservations are not required. Between Paris and Amsterdam the Thalys requires a reservation and a supplement, about €20. For the segment between Paris and Brussels Thalys is the only choice.

Even if a reservation is not REQUIRED, wouldn't it be a bit reckless not to get one.

If the train is full, you can't travel on European high-speed trains can you ? Unlike jolly old Blighty where you are most welcome to stand all the way to Edinburgh for the sme price as someone sitting down !

--- And comparing flights v trains, how long do you spend in the airport security queue waiting for a man to wave his wand at you and make you empty your pockets ? At British airports it is at least an hour - more like two for international flights.

If anyone can't work out how to put a starting station, destination station, date, and time on a railway web site - let me know and I'll try to help....

You can travel on Germany's ICE with no seat reservations, on a regular railpass. If there's no seat, you can just stand.

But only there. Not on the other highspeed lines in Europe.

Yes German and in general many long distance trains in Europe can be quite full - especially in 2nd class IME

I usually have a first-class pass in Germany and never make reservations and always hop on and never have not found a seat - usually an isolated window and aisle seat. But 2nd class seems much more full so i'd certainly make reservations in 2nd class - if you had the Eurail Select pass for adults it only comes in 1st class - to me actually a plus.
But as rkkwan says all other high-speed trains in countries other than Germany require reservations (even though in Switzerland Cisalpino and TGVs don't require reservations inside the country these do not truly run at high speed in Switzerland)

Even though German trains don't require reservations and you can always board - unlike other highspeed trains in europe - it's easy enough to make seat reservations and they only cost a few euro - especially if you want a window seat, aisle seat, etc. Or if you are a group of four or so to get seats together.

<Someone suggested a Eurorail ticket. Is it the same as the Rail Europe Pass>

I assume they mean Eurailpass instead of Eurorail ticket.

and there is no such thing as a RailEurope pass - RailEurope, owned by the French and Swiss national railways, in the U.S. is a major purveyor of Eurailpasses - thus the possible confusion. there are five Eurailpass wholesalers in the U.S. i believe and RailEurope is probably the biggest provider of the passes. Many agents will work thru RailEurope or they sell directly at www.raileurope.com

Pass prices are set by the Eurail Committee or whatever they call it sitting i believe in Utrecht, Holland and prices no matter who sells them must be exactly what they dictate - same everywhere

but handling and postage fees can be added on - Raileurope i believe charges $18 for any pass order under $400 - but handling fees can be added as well. BETS i menton above have no fees except on rush orders i believe and others have no fee as well. So the only reason to comparison shop for a pass are the mailing and handling fees, besides of course service and accessibility IMO

I've found that some countries' train operator also sells their single-country railpasses directly, not via a broker.

For my dad's travel to Germany earlier this year, I bought his pass directly from www.bahn.de. Priced in euro, it was slightly cheaper than through one of the agents here. No shipping or handling fees either, and the pass showed up by regular mail in around a week. But of course, exchange rate's different then and now, so one needs to compare prices.

rkkwan

i can't get the bahn.de site to work on my computer so i ask you the Q?

my understanding is that only 5- and 10-day German passes are sold at major rail stations in Germany - is it the same online or can you buy the 4- 5- 6- 7- 8- 9- or 10- day pass of your choice?

only bother to respond if you remember off hand. thanks

PalenQ - I remember that my dad bought the 5-day pass, and www.bahn.de doesn't sell the 4-day one.

But that trip was in April. Now, I don't even see them selling the passes on www.bahn.de.

thanks rk - i always wondered why only a 5- and 10- day German Pass was sold at stations, major stations i think but perhaps all, and why the other 4-day 5,6,7,8,9, weren't also sold.

seemed weird - thanks for the info. Though bahn.de may have taken the passes off i understand that they are indeed, 5- and 10-day passes being sold at major stations, such as at Frankfurt Airport. Still the 4-day pass is often better it seems and can't see why they don't sell that.

thanks

I'm in the minority on Fodors, but I like a rail pass. I like the flexibility - just jump on and off especially for short trips.

Reservations weren't a hard thing to do, nor expensive. I always used first class because I figured I'd always find a seat somewhere. If I had a second class pass, well, then I was limited.

In my case, the passes more than paid for themselves. That, with the convenience of just hopping on a train was what sold me. But you do have to use them a fair amount to get your money's worth.

In Germany and Holland it's still true that you can just hop on practically any train, including, rare in Europe, high-speed ones so that aspect of a pass is great

Unfortunately countries like France, Spain and Italy are making reservations mandatory on most fast trains, negating that once super great aspect of the pass - just showing up and hopping on

PalenQ wrote,
<i>Unfortunately countries like France, Spain and Italy are making reservations mandatory on most fast trains, negating that once super great aspect of the pass - just showing up and hopping on.</i>

Unfortunately you are so right. And to make it worse some routes are exclusively premium grade, e.g. Brussels&lt;-&gt;Paris requiring reservations AND supplements for pass holders. I guess that Thayls gave a bunch of euros to the right, or left, politicians.

Yes indeed hops

Italian Eurostar trains charge passholders a 15 euro fee to ride - one reason the Italian railpass often is not economic given the usual several extra charges and it's overpriced to begin with

Thalys charges about $40 in first class but at least then you get a fairly decent meal with booze

2nd cl Thalys however you get nothing except a reserved seat for your $12 or so

I'm still not throwing the baby out with the bathwater and love having a pass but it's taking a lot more hassle - you have to go to ticket windows to make the reservations, etc.

In Germany, austria, switzerland, belgium, denmark and holland and u.k. there are still no or practically no trains that require reservations so using a pass there still offers the great aspect of sponteneity and just hopping on any ole train.