Mab85

So I'm going back to Europe in March and plan to do several cities, preferably by train. My planned itinerary is London>Amsterdam>Paris>Berlin>Vienna&g t;Salzburg>Madrid, and then back to the US. Now, I've checked up on rail passes and whatnot, and searched through the forums, but I'm wondering if all the trains are covered by the Eurail pass. Will I be able to buy a pass and just walk onto a train? Anyone have some advice on this itinerary? Thanks.

PalenqueBob

All trains except the London-Brussels Eurostar part of London-Amsterdam route and there is a special passholder fare of as low as $77 on that route if you have a valid pass - your travel is wide ranging so a classic Eurailpass may be best for you as opposed to the 5-country max Eurail Select pass. Some trains in France and Spain require reservations before boarding - in France all TGVs and CorailTEOZ trains - 3 euros but you must make one. Spanish trains can cost more with a pass - $10 or so minimum for AVE type trains. Actually all your type questions will be answered in the free European Planning & Rail Guide available from BETS: www.budgeteuropetravel.com, which i always recommend for fairly novice European rail travelers for its wealth of info and they also offer a service where you can call toll-free and have experts answer all such questions - free service (800-441-2387) - you can also find good info at www.ricksteves.com, especially on passes and cheapo flights - you could say fly to Madrid and then do a 5-country Eurail Select Pass good in France, Benelux, Germany, Austria and Switzerland and then fly to Madrid. Cheap airlines: www.whichbudget.com.

I've used railpasses annually for 37 years in Europe - i'd be happy to try to answer any further questions you have. sincerely, PalQ

Mab85

Thank you so much for your help! How will I know to make a reservation for the France/Spain trains?

PalenqueBob

How will you know if reservations are required? The best schedule source for European trains is the German rail web site (www.bahn.de) - i suggest you go to BETS home page i referenced in above post and click on the link there "All European Railway Timetables" or some such wording and this will link you to the English language schedule page of the German rail site. There you find two boxes where you put in say Avignon to Barcelona, the date and it will then give you all the trains for that day. then if you hit "Details for the Above" more details will appear and the words "Reservations compulsory" will appear in the far right - or "please reserve" which means reservations are not obligatory but possible. In Europe you take you pass up to a ticket window and make your reservations as you go along - though you can often do them all at once in any European station, if station staff are willing. Alternatively you can make them when you buy your pass, though some agents like Rick Steves refuses to do it as this can be a time consuming task they get paid virtually no commission for. But other agents like BETS will do it as a service for clients. I'm not suggesting you do this but some folks like to have everything buttoned down and just show up for the train. That said reservations here cost more than you'd pay in Europe. But trains that are key to your itinerary, say a night train, etc. you may want to book ahead.

More questions? Sincerely, PalQ

GregPCM

Mab85,

A good resource for planning train travel in Europe is RailFanEurope
(http://www.railfaneurope.net/frameset.html). Just hit the Links button on the top of the page and use the Swiss timetable to look up any trip in Europe. They will identify any train that require reservations.

Other than that PalQ described the process pretty well. The train ride from Salzburg to Madrid is more than 24 hours, so I would recommend flying as well.

ira

Hi Mab,

It is likely that a railpass will save you money, but before you buy one enter your itinerary at www.railsaver.com and click "only if it saves money".

You might also want to check prices at the national rail sites. They do have special fares.

Also look into cheap air fares at www.whichbudget.com.

How long will you be in Europe?

hopscotch

Your itinerary includes some rather long legs. Some of them would be well served by taking a sleeper or couchette. The supplement for a bunk is usually in the $25 to $45 range. That beats a hotel just about everywhere. In first class the bunk cost sometimes includes a continental breakfast served in your cabine.

Eurailpass does not include London. Also when you are going from Berlin to Vienna you will need to detour around Czech Republic or pay for transit because Czech is not in the Eurailpass system. So you might want to do it as Berlin -> Salzburg -> Vienna. Then to reach Madrid you have a loooong ride. I would break that up with a layover in Nice or Lyon, or someplace else of interest.

In March you should have no trouble making reservations on the day of travel, whether for day trains or for overnight trains.

For the best European train information, schedules, and maps buy a copy of the Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable at http://tinyurl.com/zfewx
This costs about $30 delivered in about 2 weeks. I consider it indispensible for traveling with a rail pass. Order the winter edition which will be available in December. Sure, there are good web sites with train schedules but when you are sitting on the train wondering about jumping off somewhere or making a detour you will not have a web connection handy. I like the printed page in my mits.

If you have not used the trains in Europe before the best introduction on the internet is at
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm.
There are four well illustrated sections in this primer on traveling by train in Europe.

I agree with PalenqueBob about The Budget Europe Travel Service in Ann Arbor. BETS publishes a great booklet called the European Planning & Rail Guide. This is available for free at http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id2.html. Get their booklet before you buy a travel guidebook. You might not need a guidebook.

PalenqueBob

Mab85 - the best possible source for European train info i've found is this forum - there are many people well versed in European train info - some have their own specialty and countries they know about the rail stuff in great detail. So my advice is yes check out the valuable resources above and then don't be afraid to pose questions on this forum - be as descriptive as possible in your posting and you'll get a wealth of info.

Mab85

I really appreciate everyone's help. If I run into more problems, I'll ask. Thanks!

Mab85

And ira, I'll be there for 2 1/2-3 weeks.

Hopscotch, I realized the problem with Berlin-Vienna and I think I will do Berlin-Salzburg-Vienna. Thank you!

Mab85

I'm on the Bahn.de website and found a sleeper train between Krakow (which I just added to my itinerary) and Vienna, but I can't order it online - how do I get it?

ira

Hi mab,

You can't order Krakow/Vienna online from Bahn.de because it is the German train site and you are not traveling in Germany.

Try www.euraide.com They represent the German rail lines. They have a US office.

Also try BETS. Their web site is www.budgeteuropetravel.com; phone 800-441-2387.

You are going to 8 cities in 17 days?

You are aware that each time you change hotels you lose at least 1/2 day?

Are you planning on sleeping on trains for 7 nights?

Are you a masochist?

ira

PS,

Have you looked at www.whichbudget.com for cheap airfares?

GeoffHamer

"You are aware that each time you change hotels you lose at least 1/2 day?"

How? The actual process of checking out of one hotel (usually involving handing over the key and the money), then checking into another hotel(telling them your name, or filling in a simple form) takes 15 minutes at the most.

Mab85

No, ira, I've been adapting the schedule and I'll be there for a longer time - it's ever-changing. Thanks for the site, and yes, I've added a flight here and there where convenient. I appreciate it once again, everyone!

suze

8 cities in 17-21 days?

wow that is a fairly aggressive itinerary and the majority of your time will be spent sitting on a train, going to and from airports or train stations, checking in and out of hotels, etc. if you are planning to sleep in trains, i would not do that every single time or you will end up exhausted (unless you are the rare bird who can fall asleep in any condition).


you say "going back" so have you been to Europe before and done this type of itinerary?

Mab85

My apologies if this does a double post - it wasn't working for me yesterday.

Suze, I've increased the amount of time, so I'll be there for a month or so. I've been to Europe many times before, just never traveled extensively on trains. I like all the running around

suze

Oh, good for you!! A month will be wonderful. That's still a quick pace but at least you'll have ~3 days in each place, plus all the train rides. You know your own travel style best.

ira

Hi GeoffHamer

>"You are aware that each time you change hotels you lose at least 1/2 day?"

How? The actual process of checking out of one hotel (usually involving handing over the key and the money), then checking into another hotel(telling them your name, or filling in a simple form) takes 15 minutes at the most.<

Well, more like 0:30 hr.

Then there is the packing and unpacking - another 1:00 hr.

Then you have to walk from one hotel to the other one across the street - 0:15 hr.

Then you have to check out the facilities in the new hotel - 1:30 hr.

That almost 3:30 hr - time for lunch.

So 1/2 your day gone and you haven't even changed cities.

GeoffHamer

"Then there is the packing and unpacking"
If you're staying in a hotel for only one night, you don't unpack, therefore you don't need to pack.

"Then you have to check out the facilities in the new hotel - 1:30 hr."
What does this involve? You glance at the toilet, shower, bed, etc, to check that they exist, and that's it.