Train vs plane in Spain, help before I go insane. :-)
Apr 11th, 2012, 02:46 PM
#21
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I had never used trains in Spain, greg. I have used trains in a few other European countries but for shorter trips. I'm not sure how you define a long distance train, but this is the longest distance I have ever traveled by train.
Apr 11th, 2012, 02:50 PM
#22
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After hitting the "submit" button I realized I must take back my last sentence. In Egypt I took an overnight train from Cairo to Aswan and it was a living hell. This train was a luxury liner compared with that horrible Egyptian train, but that's not saying much.
Apr 11th, 2012, 04:58 PM
#23
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Thanks PM,
The Rail Europe website seems very user friendly. I think in a couple of weeks when I need to buy my tickets I'll use them rather than get frustrated by Renfe. The 4 euros fee seems like a small price to pay.
The Rail Europe website seems very user friendly. I think in a couple of weeks when I need to buy my tickets I'll use them rather than get frustrated by Renfe. The 4 euros fee seems like a small price to pay.
Apr 11th, 2012, 07:31 PM
#25
Rail Europe must work better for Spain than Italy and Switzerland as they certainly don't show all trains or discount tickets for them.
I was curious about the browser because Trenitalia states which browser and versions you must use to purchase online. I just wondered if that wasn't one of the reasons people have trouble with Renfe online. Last time I was in Spain, I just bought tickets at the stations.
I was curious about the browser because Trenitalia states which browser and versions you must use to purchase online. I just wondered if that wasn't one of the reasons people have trouble with Renfe online. Last time I was in Spain, I just bought tickets at the stations.
Apr 11th, 2012, 07:54 PM
#26
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With Renfe online, it failed with Firefox, iExplorer, and Chrome.
No, it is not my bank.
The bank rep told me the Renfe did not even bother to get authorization from the bank. There is nothing to approve or reject at the bank because no attempt to contact bank was made in the first place.
No, it is not my bank.
The bank rep told me the Renfe did not even bother to get authorization from the bank. There is nothing to approve or reject at the bank because no attempt to contact bank was made in the first place.
Apr 12th, 2012, 05:31 AM
#27
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greg, sorry but I'm not very clear on what you are asking me regarding "how someone from the US changes the view on the merit of (some) high speed long distance trains." If you would like a comparison between the Spanish train and the Egyptian train then I will be glad to give you that. The Spanish train was clean, comfortable, smoke free and it departed/arrived on time. The Egyptian train was filthy and the bathroom was beyond disgusting with urine sloshing around on the floor. People were smoking in spite of the no smoking signs, which is particularly bad for my asthma. The a/c was blasting and it felt like it was below freezing. The light was left on all night and the conductor woke me up a few times to see my ticket. I found tourist class on the Spanish train to be far more nice than first class on the Egyptian train.
If this isn't what you are asking please let me know and I will try again to answer. I am happy to share with you any information or opinions.
If this isn't what you are asking please let me know and I will try again to answer. I am happy to share with you any information or opinions.
Apr 12th, 2012, 06:58 AM
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P_M,
Here is the full background since you asked.
I was interested on how someone from the US changes the view about high speed trains after their experiences taking AVE, TGV, Eurostar, Thalys, Bullet train like trains in Europe and Asia.
If you have been reading this forum, many first time travelers from US try to put together car and planes only itineraries to visit destinations that could have been reached cheaper (in totality=actual total cost + opportunity cost, etc), faster, and more comfortable, as you found out, by trains. Why is this?
If you follow high speed train discussions in the US, you see heated discussions against similar trains in the US supported by large percentage of the population. The supporters of high speed trains seem to be mostly those who have traveled in Asia and Europe and wonder why there isn't any in the US. The oppositions, who have not seem to have had first hand experience taking any such trains in Europe and Asia, do not see any need for transportation in the US other than cars and planes and buses and ferry boats to connect cities.
Of course, I see US public funds used to build bridges to nowhere, international airports in middle of nowhere, etc. So high speed trains in US would have also have segments that do not make sense. However, the argument that no highspeed trains make sense in the US seems extreme.
Does it take someone to ride such a train so merit of highspeed trains on segments that make sense? If that is the case, I would probably not see one built in my lifetime as it is not practical for sufficient US voters to travel abroad to have taken highspeed trains.
My parents in their old age complain about how they cannot visit brothers and sisters in cities hundreds of miles away. They can no longer drive and flying is too much of a hassle. Amtrak trains have meager daily runs, slow, and go only to limited destinations relevant in the early 20th century. Yet in Europe and Asia, I see people with similar age or mobility limitations taking trains to visit out of town places.
So, when I read a report like yours, I want to find out if a first hand experience is the only way for someone to realize the merit of highspeed trains for relevant segments.
No, I was not interested in trains from other countries not relevant in the US.
Here is the full background since you asked.
I was interested on how someone from the US changes the view about high speed trains after their experiences taking AVE, TGV, Eurostar, Thalys, Bullet train like trains in Europe and Asia.
If you have been reading this forum, many first time travelers from US try to put together car and planes only itineraries to visit destinations that could have been reached cheaper (in totality=actual total cost + opportunity cost, etc), faster, and more comfortable, as you found out, by trains. Why is this?
If you follow high speed train discussions in the US, you see heated discussions against similar trains in the US supported by large percentage of the population. The supporters of high speed trains seem to be mostly those who have traveled in Asia and Europe and wonder why there isn't any in the US. The oppositions, who have not seem to have had first hand experience taking any such trains in Europe and Asia, do not see any need for transportation in the US other than cars and planes and buses and ferry boats to connect cities.
Of course, I see US public funds used to build bridges to nowhere, international airports in middle of nowhere, etc. So high speed trains in US would have also have segments that do not make sense. However, the argument that no highspeed trains make sense in the US seems extreme.
Does it take someone to ride such a train so merit of highspeed trains on segments that make sense? If that is the case, I would probably not see one built in my lifetime as it is not practical for sufficient US voters to travel abroad to have taken highspeed trains.
My parents in their old age complain about how they cannot visit brothers and sisters in cities hundreds of miles away. They can no longer drive and flying is too much of a hassle. Amtrak trains have meager daily runs, slow, and go only to limited destinations relevant in the early 20th century. Yet in Europe and Asia, I see people with similar age or mobility limitations taking trains to visit out of town places.
So, when I read a report like yours, I want to find out if a first hand experience is the only way for someone to realize the merit of highspeed trains for relevant segments.
No, I was not interested in trains from other countries not relevant in the US.
Apr 13th, 2012, 07:19 AM
#29
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greg, I think you have hit the nail on the head by saying the people who want the trains most are those who have already used them in other parts of the world. My kid sister has not traveled much but she has a terrible fear of flying so she would support the train. She has used Amtrak, it was very expensive and it takes forever to get to where you are going. It is true that most people in the US prefer to fly or drive and have no interest in a high speed train.
Apr 13th, 2012, 08:55 AM
#30
>>>Does it take someone to ride such a train so merit of highspeed trains on segments that make sense?<<<
The US really doesn't have high speed trains (unless between DC and NY?). The problem with passenger trains in the US is they don't own the tracks/lines. They use tracks owned by freight companies. DD has been living in Detroit for 1 1/2 years (6 months to go!) and has tried taking the train to Chicago numerous times. It's supposed to be a 6 hour train ride, but ends up being anywhere from 8-10 hours. Whenever the train encounters a freight train needing the tracks, the passenger train has to pull over and wait. A friend that used to try to train from Indianapolis to Chicago had the same problem and uses MegaBus instead as it's faster (and much cheaper).
P_M - Are you doing a trip report? I just a flight for May to Barcelona for under $800. It's tempting to me as it's been seven years since I've been to Spain.
The US really doesn't have high speed trains (unless between DC and NY?). The problem with passenger trains in the US is they don't own the tracks/lines. They use tracks owned by freight companies. DD has been living in Detroit for 1 1/2 years (6 months to go!) and has tried taking the train to Chicago numerous times. It's supposed to be a 6 hour train ride, but ends up being anywhere from 8-10 hours. Whenever the train encounters a freight train needing the tracks, the passenger train has to pull over and wait. A friend that used to try to train from Indianapolis to Chicago had the same problem and uses MegaBus instead as it's faster (and much cheaper).
P_M - Are you doing a trip report? I just a flight for May to Barcelona for under $800. It's tempting to me as it's been seven years since I've been to Spain.
