Train Travel / Paris to Normandy and Brittany
#21
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Tours or Orleans - 2 nights>
Those are surprisingly big busy cities where driving IME can be a nightmare. I spend loads of time in Orleans and though I love the town I would never ever recommend it as a place to visit in a Loire Valley with so so many other more enjoyable, for the average tourist, things to see and do.
I would strongly suggest basing in a smaller more romantic place like Amboise, which is also at the epicenter of many great short excursions to nearby places like Chenonceaux, the most popular and famous of the Loire castles, as well as Azay-le-Rideau and Chambord, the next two consensus bests I believe. And Amboise has its onw stellar castle overlooking the Loire as well as Leonardo da Vinci's Clos Luce house where he lived out the last few years of his life at the invitation of Francois 1 (I think 1er) - the King of France who brought him here and put him up near his Amboise Castle.
Tours is a nice big city with a nice restaurant ghetto but like Orleans IMO lacks any really old-world romance you may be looking for.
Those are surprisingly big busy cities where driving IME can be a nightmare. I spend loads of time in Orleans and though I love the town I would never ever recommend it as a place to visit in a Loire Valley with so so many other more enjoyable, for the average tourist, things to see and do.
I would strongly suggest basing in a smaller more romantic place like Amboise, which is also at the epicenter of many great short excursions to nearby places like Chenonceaux, the most popular and famous of the Loire castles, as well as Azay-le-Rideau and Chambord, the next two consensus bests I believe. And Amboise has its onw stellar castle overlooking the Loire as well as Leonardo da Vinci's Clos Luce house where he lived out the last few years of his life at the invitation of Francois 1 (I think 1er) - the King of France who brought him here and put him up near his Amboise Castle.
Tours is a nice big city with a nice restaurant ghetto but like Orleans IMO lacks any really old-world romance you may be looking for.
#22
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<<Caen - 2 nights / Dinan - 2 nights / Quimper or Lorient - 2 nights / Rennes - 2 nights / Tours or Orleans - 2 nights / Paris -3 nights>>
First off, you haven't taken into account the driving time between these places, so though you on paper have "two nights," you really have at most a day and a half to experience them.
Caen, though it is probably the place to take a train to to pick up a car, isn't a particularly pleasant town to stay in. It does have the wonderful Mémorial museum, which you should plan to spend a half day in (yes, it will absorb that much time, and the time will fly by). Instead of making Caen your base, I'd suggest Bayeux, which in addition to being handy to the D-Day sites, has the famous tapestry and a great cathedral, as well as some really good restaurants. Stay there 3 nights if you really want to get a good overview of the D-Day sites.
Dinan is good, Quimper is good, Rennes is wonderful. But so are Fougères and Vitré and Vannes and....you really don't have that much time for this trip (especially as you're not counting travel time between places). Any chance you can stay longer?
Tours and Orléans - bad choices. Horrible traffic, too much commercial zone ugliness around the perimeters, and not terribly useful as access to the main sights of the Loire. Instead, stay in Amboise or Blois or Chinon.
Not much time for Paris, either.
First off, you haven't taken into account the driving time between these places, so though you on paper have "two nights," you really have at most a day and a half to experience them.
Caen, though it is probably the place to take a train to to pick up a car, isn't a particularly pleasant town to stay in. It does have the wonderful Mémorial museum, which you should plan to spend a half day in (yes, it will absorb that much time, and the time will fly by). Instead of making Caen your base, I'd suggest Bayeux, which in addition to being handy to the D-Day sites, has the famous tapestry and a great cathedral, as well as some really good restaurants. Stay there 3 nights if you really want to get a good overview of the D-Day sites.
Dinan is good, Quimper is good, Rennes is wonderful. But so are Fougères and Vitré and Vannes and....you really don't have that much time for this trip (especially as you're not counting travel time between places). Any chance you can stay longer?
Tours and Orléans - bad choices. Horrible traffic, too much commercial zone ugliness around the perimeters, and not terribly useful as access to the main sights of the Loire. Instead, stay in Amboise or Blois or Chinon.
Not much time for Paris, either.
#23
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Wonderful advice! Thank you very much. I need to digest some of this information and work on my next draft. I am so appreciative of your advice about Bayeux versus Caen. Also, I was speaking with a freind last night and he told me that he would forget San Michel and head to Saint Malo. He felt that dealing with the crowds at San Michel would take too much time and that going to Saint Malo would give us pretty much the same expereince. StCirq, I would love to stay longer, but that is probably not going to happen. We are traveling from Cincinati, OH, and because of some other issues were probably locked into two weeks. I think I'm going to need to be very selective about where we travel and how long we stay. Maybe my plan is over ambitious right now and I need to cut back. Thanks for the info about Tours and Orleans. PalenQ, I also like your recommendations for Amboise. FMT, you have given me so much reading to do and Gretchen, you have pretty much convinced me that this is a driving vacation. Thank you all!
#24
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<<he told me that he would forget San Michel and head to Saint Malo. He felt that dealing with the crowds at San Michel would take too much time and that going to Saint Malo would give us pretty much the same expereince.>>
Well, he's wrong on many counts. It's not San Michel, BTW, it's Le Mont St-Michel.
Well, he's wrong on many counts. It's not San Michel, BTW, it's Le Mont St-Michel.
#25
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Why not start over.
You will drive.
You want to see X X X X
You started with so many boondoggles, it might be better to connect a separate set of dots--using a car.
You have a great amount of time.
Decide how much time you want in Paris.
STart from CDG--go to Normandy, etc.
Train back to Paris from Rennes or somewhere.
Start over.
You will drive.
You want to see X X X X
You started with so many boondoggles, it might be better to connect a separate set of dots--using a car.
You have a great amount of time.
Decide how much time you want in Paris.
STart from CDG--go to Normandy, etc.
Train back to Paris from Rennes or somewhere.
Start over.
#26
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I'll have to agree that Mont Saint-Michel and Saint-Malo have absolutely no basis for comparison. Saint Malo is a charming seaside town (although it was bombed during the war and rebuilt). Mont Saint-Michel is an island in a bay with a small village at its base and is crowned by an abbey that has its origins in the 9th century. If you are in the area it really is something you should see. To avoid the crowds get there very early in the morning before the abbey opens (it opens at 9AM). You have to park on the mainland and take a shuttle bus across the causeway to access the island. If you get there at around 7:30 or 8AM you'll have time to stroll the streets and narrow walkways before the tourists arrive, visit the abbey when it opens and then get out of there as it's really starting to fill up. Best of luck with the planning.
#27
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I advise staying at Mont Saint-Michel - not necessarily on the expensive hotels on the island itself but in the gaggle of hotels on the mainland where the causeway is - to me seeing the spector of Mont Sain-Michel wondrously illuminated at night from the mainland is a **** Michelin site and you can walk over the causeway too or take the shuttle in season at night there is a special show inside the ancient abbey - with special effects, etc that to me was as interesting as the day tour - and better because there were few crowds - so IMO do not just drop into MSM for a brief look but stay there and experience it by day and night as well.
#28
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Again, thank you very much. Now back to square 1. I really enjoy the planning process so this is not discuraging. I need to do some research, make some changes, and then I would apprecuate your opinions on the changes I've made. Thanks.
RMC
RMC
#29
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After reading all your comments and recommendations I've decided to follow your advice and rent a car, at least for a part of this vacation to France.
The advice about missing the wandering around experience stopping to see things in between specific place was especially good advice.
This is the current plan and I am wide open for suggestions.
We are planning to fly into Paris at the end of September. We will stay in Paris for 3-4 nights, then rent a car and drive to Giverny and then Bayeux. Spend a couple days along the D-day beaches then drive to Le Mont Saint Michel (staying over one night). Then l head to Brittany for a couple days and then drive to the Loire Valley for a couple nights, then back to Paris. We will spend the remaining days in Paris before heading home.
My specific questions are:
1. Where should I rent the car? I would prefer no to go back to CDG to rent a car. I'm sure there must be other locations that are out from the city center where it will be relatively easy to get tout of town. One thought was to pick the car up at Orly, then head to Amboise and the Loire Valley. Then we would reverse the course I have written above. Coming back to Paris on the last with the car through Giverny.
2. What arrondissment should we say in? We've been to Paris before and stayed at a hotel about 2 blocks from the Champs Elysees and 3 blocks from L' Arc de Triomphe. I liked this area, but I would like to try another area, maybe a little less expensive. Also, an area that would give us a little different feel for the city.
3. At this time of the year (late Sept.- early Oct.) can I travel without reservations? We would have the flexibility of not needing to follow a strict schedule. I'm sure I would need to make a reservation for a place in Le Mont Saint Michel, but Bayeux? etc.
4. We've discussed staying in B & B's. We've had wonderful experiences in England, Wales and Ireland travelling this way (we also don’t not make reservations when we have traveled this way). Also, we stay in a very small hotel on Eccleston Square when we go to London. It is very affordable and in many cases we are the only Americans staying at the hotel. The rooms are very small but that is not a problem and we enjoy the opportunity to speak with the other guests.
5. Weekends? On my current itinerary I have one weekend while we are traveling in France and one weekend in Paris. I don't know whether this is good, bad, or if it even matters.
Thanks for your help!
The advice about missing the wandering around experience stopping to see things in between specific place was especially good advice.
This is the current plan and I am wide open for suggestions.
We are planning to fly into Paris at the end of September. We will stay in Paris for 3-4 nights, then rent a car and drive to Giverny and then Bayeux. Spend a couple days along the D-day beaches then drive to Le Mont Saint Michel (staying over one night). Then l head to Brittany for a couple days and then drive to the Loire Valley for a couple nights, then back to Paris. We will spend the remaining days in Paris before heading home.
My specific questions are:
1. Where should I rent the car? I would prefer no to go back to CDG to rent a car. I'm sure there must be other locations that are out from the city center where it will be relatively easy to get tout of town. One thought was to pick the car up at Orly, then head to Amboise and the Loire Valley. Then we would reverse the course I have written above. Coming back to Paris on the last with the car through Giverny.
2. What arrondissment should we say in? We've been to Paris before and stayed at a hotel about 2 blocks from the Champs Elysees and 3 blocks from L' Arc de Triomphe. I liked this area, but I would like to try another area, maybe a little less expensive. Also, an area that would give us a little different feel for the city.
3. At this time of the year (late Sept.- early Oct.) can I travel without reservations? We would have the flexibility of not needing to follow a strict schedule. I'm sure I would need to make a reservation for a place in Le Mont Saint Michel, but Bayeux? etc.
4. We've discussed staying in B & B's. We've had wonderful experiences in England, Wales and Ireland travelling this way (we also don’t not make reservations when we have traveled this way). Also, we stay in a very small hotel on Eccleston Square when we go to London. It is very affordable and in many cases we are the only Americans staying at the hotel. The rooms are very small but that is not a problem and we enjoy the opportunity to speak with the other guests.
5. Weekends? On my current itinerary I have one weekend while we are traveling in France and one weekend in Paris. I don't know whether this is good, bad, or if it even matters.
Thanks for your help!
#30
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1) Go the the websites www.autoeurope.com or www.europecar.com. These are brokers that deal with all the large rental agencies. Going to Orly to get a car and starting with the Loire is fine. But if you're going to start in the Loire then it would probably be easier to get a car near Porte d'Orléans, which is near the highway to the Loire. You can also rent a car in western Paris near Porte Maillot, which is right by the entrance to the A13 autoroute to Normandy.
2) That's a wide open question with dozens of answers. You might consider the Montparnasse area, which is not too touristy, well located for sightseeing and has lots to offer in terms of restaurants, stores, services, cafés etc.
3) Yes, you certainly could wing it but I think you'd find it more stressful to look for accommodation at the end of each day, not to mention the potential for time wasted looking for a hotel that could be spent sightseeing instead. Booking ahead also insures you get a hotel you really like, and don't stumble into unwanted surprises. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid to wing it but I'm not fussy about hotels.
4) In France B&B's are called chambres d'hôtes. There are many websites where you can search for this type of accommodation, including tourist office websites. The four that I always use are:
http://www.chambres-hotes.fr/
www.abritel.fr
www.homelidays.com
www.gites-de-france.com
Here are links to several more:
http://www.chambresdhotes.org/
http://www.chambresdhotesdecharme.com/
http://www.maison-hote.fr/
http://www.french-guesthouse.com/
http://www.logishotels.com/en.html
http://www.fleursdesoleil.fr/
http://gitelink.com/
www.clevacances.com
www.holiday-rentals.co.uk
www.frenchconnections.co.uk
www.sawdays.co.uk
www.papvacances.com
5) Don't think weekends makes a difference. Maybe someone else has different thoughts on that.
2) That's a wide open question with dozens of answers. You might consider the Montparnasse area, which is not too touristy, well located for sightseeing and has lots to offer in terms of restaurants, stores, services, cafés etc.
3) Yes, you certainly could wing it but I think you'd find it more stressful to look for accommodation at the end of each day, not to mention the potential for time wasted looking for a hotel that could be spent sightseeing instead. Booking ahead also insures you get a hotel you really like, and don't stumble into unwanted surprises. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid to wing it but I'm not fussy about hotels.
4) In France B&B's are called chambres d'hôtes. There are many websites where you can search for this type of accommodation, including tourist office websites. The four that I always use are:
http://www.chambres-hotes.fr/
www.abritel.fr
www.homelidays.com
www.gites-de-france.com
Here are links to several more:
http://www.chambresdhotes.org/
http://www.chambresdhotesdecharme.com/
http://www.maison-hote.fr/
http://www.french-guesthouse.com/
http://www.logishotels.com/en.html
http://www.fleursdesoleil.fr/
http://gitelink.com/
www.clevacances.com
www.holiday-rentals.co.uk
www.frenchconnections.co.uk
www.sawdays.co.uk
www.papvacances.com
5) Don't think weekends makes a difference. Maybe someone else has different thoughts on that.
#31
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I will really recommend you turn your trip around--rent the car at CDG and start there. You can go to Giverney on the way if you want. We spent our first night in Rouen after a really lovely drive up the east side of the Seine for part of the trip. Rouen is nice in its own right.
We went to Honfleur, but you can certainly go on to Bayeux for your base. Leaving Rouen there is the Abbey Road for several miles --a string of medieval abbeys.
Get the Michelin Green Guide to Normandy and start planning. Don't forget to stop at a cider/calvados operation--and the fromageries!!
We returned the car to Orly, seeing Chartres en route. Orly is an easy return, and the taxi stand is just across the street from the rental building.
This just seems easier to me than finding the rental place in Paris and getting out of the city.
We went to Honfleur, but you can certainly go on to Bayeux for your base. Leaving Rouen there is the Abbey Road for several miles --a string of medieval abbeys.
Get the Michelin Green Guide to Normandy and start planning. Don't forget to stop at a cider/calvados operation--and the fromageries!!
We returned the car to Orly, seeing Chartres en route. Orly is an easy return, and the taxi stand is just across the street from the rental building.
This just seems easier to me than finding the rental place in Paris and getting out of the city.
#32
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Gretchen - The OP is flying into CDG and then staying in Paris for 3-4 days before leaving the city. Going back to CDG to rent a car to go to Normandy would not make sense at all. If you rent by Porte Maillot all you have to do is drive straight down avenue Charles de Gaulle and this will lead you directly onto the A13. No turns, no confusion. Straight forward and simple. Returning the car at Orly would make sense if you were coming back from the Loire and didn't want to drive in the city.
#33
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Not what I said. I suggested renting the car when they arrive and then return it to Orly. "Turn the trip around" by starting in Normandy, not Paris.
It's not a bad trip to orly from Normandy since we went to Chartres.
It's not a bad trip to orly from Normandy since we went to Chartres.
#35
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It is relatively easy IME driving away from Paris from either airport - or even at non rush hours around it - and from CDG you could go via Auvers-sur-Oise and Giverny both - thw two villages put on the map by Impressionist painters like Van Gogh and Cezanne at Auvers and Money at Giverny.
#36
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I am suggesting they go to Normandy FIRST and then come back to PARIS for the rest of their trip. It is really very plain from my post. What is the problem
Rent at CDG. Go to Normandy. Return wherever--we found it easy to do to Orly with the visit to Chartres. Taxi to hotel in Paris. End trip in Paris. Go to CDG and to the USA. I have no idea what has made this so hard to understand.
BUT the OP can do what they want.
Rent at CDG. Go to Normandy. Return wherever--we found it easy to do to Orly with the visit to Chartres. Taxi to hotel in Paris. End trip in Paris. Go to CDG and to the USA. I have no idea what has made this so hard to understand.
BUT the OP can do what they want.
#37
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Gretchen - I'm not trying to be disagreeable with you but I truly misunderstood what you were trying to say so please forgive me. That being said, the OP is arriving on an international flight from Ohio and will likely be jet-lagged and tired. Driving on unfamiliar roads in a foreign country when you are tired and jet-lagged is not a great idea, especially when the OP is already nervous about driving in France. It may be fine for those who have done this before and are familiar with driving in France but the OP is not one of those people.
#38
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I was sure it was a misunderstanding. BUT having done just what I suggested and not being a seasoned French driver, it made an enjoyable trip for us, that was quite stress free, even the first day (except for DH ordering andouillettes in a cafe in Giverney). As I have often mentioned, I try to consolidate rentals and hotel switches because these are time grabbers with little to recommend except taking time away from sightseeing, on an already limited time plan. I am sure renting a car on the peripherique of Paris is also "easy" but you have to get you and your luggage "there"--just another step in the transport and time grabber.
Just a thought for the OP.
Just a thought for the OP.
#39
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Thank all of you for the wonderful advice. Someone suggested that after a long flight from the USA to Paris it might be best not to get on the road right away, especially if we wanted to enjoy our time at Giverny or in the Loire Valley (not sure which direction we will head in first. When traveling in the US the weather usually influences my decision). At times in my life I have been a road warrior travelling via plane and/or car, and working very long hours. I traveled through throughout the USA and my company's headquarters was in Stockholm. I’m sure you all have had similar experiences. My road warrior days are over and we travel at a more leisurely pace now. It is time for me to stop and smell the roses (my wife has been trying to convince me to do that for a very long time). I enjoy taking my time and that and that is one of the main reasons we love France so much, we take our time in France. We are not driven to see and do everything now.
Gretchen, I seriously thought about picking a car up at CDG and driving straight to Giverny, then on to Bayeux. Years ago that is the way I would normally do things, but now that I am a little bit older I tend to be more conservative and I will probably stop and get some rest in Paris before moving on. I do like your idea though.
FMT, your assessment is correct. We would like to find a place to stay in Paris where it would not be difficult to get to the hotel via the bus or the Metro (if that is possible from CDG). We've traveled the Metro before and we thought it was fairly easy to get around. I've never done it before with suitcases or backpacks and I'm sure that might complicate travel a bit. We would like to rent a car, leave our large suitcase in Paris (not sure where might be) and just pack light and take backpacks with us when we travel for the week in the car. When we get back to Paris we want to turn the car back in, pick up our big suitcase, then check back into the same hotel, or maybe even try another location. We have always enjoyed being independent travelers and have never gone tours. I’m sure some of them are very good, but we don’t like the idea of being so organized, or traveling in a group. My very poor college French has been received wonderfully by the French people and whenever I begin to try to speak in French, whoever I am speaking to immediately begins to smile, and in most cases they try to help me by speaking English, or they find some one else who can. We are looking forward to traveling on our own in rural France. Again, I can't thank you enough for all your help and advice.
Gretchen, I seriously thought about picking a car up at CDG and driving straight to Giverny, then on to Bayeux. Years ago that is the way I would normally do things, but now that I am a little bit older I tend to be more conservative and I will probably stop and get some rest in Paris before moving on. I do like your idea though.
FMT, your assessment is correct. We would like to find a place to stay in Paris where it would not be difficult to get to the hotel via the bus or the Metro (if that is possible from CDG). We've traveled the Metro before and we thought it was fairly easy to get around. I've never done it before with suitcases or backpacks and I'm sure that might complicate travel a bit. We would like to rent a car, leave our large suitcase in Paris (not sure where might be) and just pack light and take backpacks with us when we travel for the week in the car. When we get back to Paris we want to turn the car back in, pick up our big suitcase, then check back into the same hotel, or maybe even try another location. We have always enjoyed being independent travelers and have never gone tours. I’m sure some of them are very good, but we don’t like the idea of being so organized, or traveling in a group. My very poor college French has been received wonderfully by the French people and whenever I begin to try to speak in French, whoever I am speaking to immediately begins to smile, and in most cases they try to help me by speaking English, or they find some one else who can. We are looking forward to traveling on our own in rural France. Again, I can't thank you enough for all your help and advice.
#40
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Hi Cross,
> We would like to find a place to stay in Paris...<
In Paris, we always stay at the Hotel Bonaparte, 61 Rue Bonaparte in the 6th. From 139E dbl + bkfst. It is just around the corner from Place St. Sulpice, near 3 metro stops and 4 bus routes. Has AC and an elevator.
The staff speaks English well, and is very helpful. The front desk is staffed 24/7
They can arrange a shuttle pickup to CDG for you.
Tel 33 1 43 26 97 37
FAX 33 1 46 33 57 67
[email protected]
www.hotelbonaparte.fr
For more info, enter "Hotel Bonaparte" in the "search the forum" box.
I suggest that you not drive in Paris, but take the train to out to Brittany or Normandy and rent your car there. After you have done your tour, drop the car and take the train back to Paris.
> We would like to find a place to stay in Paris...<
In Paris, we always stay at the Hotel Bonaparte, 61 Rue Bonaparte in the 6th. From 139E dbl + bkfst. It is just around the corner from Place St. Sulpice, near 3 metro stops and 4 bus routes. Has AC and an elevator.
The staff speaks English well, and is very helpful. The front desk is staffed 24/7
They can arrange a shuttle pickup to CDG for you.
Tel 33 1 43 26 97 37
FAX 33 1 46 33 57 67
[email protected]
www.hotelbonaparte.fr
For more info, enter "Hotel Bonaparte" in the "search the forum" box.
I suggest that you not drive in Paris, but take the train to out to Brittany or Normandy and rent your car there. After you have done your tour, drop the car and take the train back to Paris.