aussiedreamer

So, we've decided to head to Austria with the 'kids' (mid 20's) for Christmas. They will then head off on their own travels. Dh & I will have about 3 weeks to travel, we're thinking of heading to Moscow & St Petersburg as we have never been to this area. (Have travelled pretty extensively in Europe).

We will fly into and out of London (at this stage), fly to Munich, collect a car and have Christmas in Salzburg and maybe head to Vienna (missed previously). Then I imagine we would fly to Moscow. Just wondering about a train ride to St Petersburg? Scenic? Interesting? Then again a train to Finland and beyond (Ferry's too ).

Any thoughts? We are normally very 'no real plans/independent travellers but imagine for this part of the world we would need to more 'organised'.

Love to hear your thoughts.
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madamtrashheap

The train ride (Sapsan - fast train) between Moscow and St P isn't what I would call scenic, not a whole lot to see in terms of little villages, etc. But it is convenient and takes 4hrs at a speed of between 200 and 250km/h (in miles...still lots). Tickets are around Euro80pp (from memory, a very hazy, vodka-affected memory) and there are 5 depeartures a day. You can buy tickets online and receive an e-ticket. There is an overnight train if you prefer not to "waste" a day travelling, but it's not the fast train.

The train St P to Helsinki, the newish (well, 18 months old) and fast "Allegro", is the quickest way there, 3hrs30mins one way, and offers 4 departures a day. Tickets are around Euro85 pp and can be bought online at the Finnish Rail site (www.vr.fi) or I believe, but yet to confirm, at the train station in Moscow (ie before you get to St P). The ferry is an overnight affair, have a look at www.stpeterline.com for details.

You're right, you do noed to be more organised in this part of the world, in the sense that you will need to apply for a "letter of invitation" from your hotel, with dates of stay, then they will email this to you which you print off and put with your visa application. Get onto the Russian Embassy website in yoru country and follow the information - it's not difficult, just a long process. How much time are you thinking of spending in Moscow and St P? Don't sell either short as there's plenty to see and do in each.

Southam

Here is a quick suggestion that does not comment on your specific destinations. You want to cover a lot of European real estate, so why double back on your tracks to fly out of the same city you arrived in? The situation cries out for a an open-jaws itinerary. That is, fly into London and out of Moscow, saving a great deal of time and possibly some money. The on-line agencies usually describe these tickets as multi-city and the segments can be booked all at once rather than as a set of one-way tickets.

aussiedreamer

Thanks Southam, but we have plans in London on arrival and departure.

Madamtrasheap, I replied to you yesterday but its disappeared!!

I had 'found' the fast train and it looks great, so glad to hear you also suggest it. Are the ferries effected at all by weather or do they sail regardless.

Thanks for your help.
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madamtrashheap

AFAIK the ferries run in all weather as there are year-round schedules. They are behemoth-sized craft so the weather would have to be diabolical to stop them running. That said, if the seas are up you might want to take sea-sickness precautions if you're prone to landlubber reactions. The ice would have to be extreme (ie the ice-breaker on the route wouldn't be able to get through) to stop the ferries.

Wonder if your first post will reappear...

Odin

There are many types of trains from Moscow to St Petersburg; if you want one of the old fashioned overnight trains, the Nikolaevsky Express is a very beautiful train and is a taste of old Russia. Another famous train is the Red Arrow, also with beautiful interiors. My preference is for overnight sleeper trains on this route, to spend more time in Moscow and get the train after dinner, works out well since the trains leave about midnight and you get to St Petersburg around 7am. Worthwhile stop on the way is Novgorod, beautiful old Russian town.

As for being organised, just the visas really and maybe prebook the trains, since at peak times eg Friday nights when alot of Muscovites leave the city, then can be full otherwise it is usually ok, also things like ballet tickets should be prebooked when they become available. Russians don't celebrate Christmas until January, so bear in mind some things might be full/not operating during the first two weeks of Jan.

kja

It has been a VERY long time since I traveled from Moscow to St. Petersburg to Helsinki by train, so things have undoubtedly changed but, for what it's worth:

Except for a few glimpses of dachas outside of Moscow, I didn't find the trip from Moscow to St. Petersburg particularly scenic, but the fact that the train tracks marked a nearly straight line between the two cities struck me as interesting.

I found the trip between St. Petersburg and Helsinki more interesting. There were some stretches of lovely scenery in Finland with seeminly pristine lakes and forests (birch and larch, if I recall correctly).

Hope that helps!

aussiedreamer

Fantastic all of you, much appreciated. All suggestions being looked at.