Sweden rejects Euro
Sep 14th, 2003, 02:35 PM
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Sweden rejects Euro
In today's referendum the voters of Sweden have decided it not to be in their best interests to replace the crown with the euro.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Sep14.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Sep14.html
Sep 15th, 2003, 06:52 AM
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Well done Sweden !!!
I am sure the EU will not be impressed. and I am sure with the serious lack of democracy that the EU allows, there will continue to be votes in Sweden until they give the right vote....
;-)
Muck
I am sure the EU will not be impressed. and I am sure with the serious lack of democracy that the EU allows, there will continue to be votes in Sweden until they give the right vote....
;-)
Muck
Sep 15th, 2003, 08:33 AM
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Not wishing to get into any sort of ding-dong re the pros & cons of the Euro but I heard three different commentators speaking this morning who all thought that this vote would have a bruising effect on the value of the Euro v the Pound Sterling and the US dollar. However this weakness would be temporary and may not even last the week.
So.... if you're in the market for Euros you might find this window of opportunity a short-lived godsend.
Regards
Dr D.
So.... if you're in the market for Euros you might find this window of opportunity a short-lived godsend.
Regards
Dr D.
Sep 15th, 2003, 09:16 AM
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Degas:
Official price indices showed almost no movement anywhere in the Eurozone that can be attributed to the Euro's introduction. It would have been surprising if they had, as there was such paranoia about profiteering. But the claim that tourist-related prices soared is now so widespread, and has not been countered by anyone I'm aware of, that we have to assume it's well founded.
Dr DoGood.
Whether Sweden's in the Euro (and by extension, whether the UK is) is trivial compared to the fundamental issues of whether the Euro's being properly managed, and what the soaring US budget deficit means for the credibility of the dollar. Market concerns on both these issues massively outweigh the marginal importance of the size of the Eurozone economy.
Now. when the UK and Sweden move on to start questioning their membership of the EU, we'll start seeing some interesting effects.
Official price indices showed almost no movement anywhere in the Eurozone that can be attributed to the Euro's introduction. It would have been surprising if they had, as there was such paranoia about profiteering. But the claim that tourist-related prices soared is now so widespread, and has not been countered by anyone I'm aware of, that we have to assume it's well founded.
Dr DoGood.
Whether Sweden's in the Euro (and by extension, whether the UK is) is trivial compared to the fundamental issues of whether the Euro's being properly managed, and what the soaring US budget deficit means for the credibility of the dollar. Market concerns on both these issues massively outweigh the marginal importance of the size of the Eurozone economy.
Now. when the UK and Sweden move on to start questioning their membership of the EU, we'll start seeing some interesting effects.
Sep 15th, 2003, 09:47 AM
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Mucky, Sweden will have the next euro referendum in 2013.
About prices going up with euro: Not true, at least not in Finland. Food prices went down considerably, plus so did the interest level. Which means that the two most important things for a resident, food and housing, are now cheaper than before the euro.
And since Sweden does most of its trade in the euro zone (and krona is tied to euro), I am not at all sure that sticking to krona is such a good thing economically. I listened to numerous interviews of Swedes on the street, and NO-voters had very vaque and emotional reasons for their vote.
About prices going up with euro: Not true, at least not in Finland. Food prices went down considerably, plus so did the interest level. Which means that the two most important things for a resident, food and housing, are now cheaper than before the euro.
And since Sweden does most of its trade in the euro zone (and krona is tied to euro), I am not at all sure that sticking to krona is such a good thing economically. I listened to numerous interviews of Swedes on the street, and NO-voters had very vaque and emotional reasons for their vote.
Sep 15th, 2003, 12:10 PM
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Elina,
Is it really 2013?? I read that it could occur anytime.
I will investigate further.
The Vague and emotional reasons for voting may well not be ideal economic reasons to many people, but isn't that what a democracy is all about?
Muck
Is it really 2013?? I read that it could occur anytime.
I will investigate further.
The Vague and emotional reasons for voting may well not be ideal economic reasons to many people, but isn't that what a democracy is all about?
Muck
Sep 15th, 2003, 12:41 PM
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Re the prices changing with conversion to the euro, anyone offering an explanation why multi-star hotels in Ireland would go up literally hundreds of dollars per night in the last few years? For instance, Aghadoe Heights in Killarney went from $400 per night for a junior suite (when it was in punts) to $700 now... Noticed same thing with other hotels. Coincidence or conversion? Same happening in other countries?
Sep 16th, 2003, 06:22 AM
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Yes, there was some price gouging and some inappropriate rounding up when the euro was introduced. It is estimated that about 10% of Italy's 2.4% cost of living increase following the euro's introduction was due to euro-related price increases.
Numerous sleezy merchants rounded things WAYYYY up, others just exchanged the local currency symbol with the euro symbol--there was a widely reported incident in which the German Finance Minister was charged 3.50 euros for a bratwurst that had been 3.50 deutschmarks.
Rounding up transit fares in some cities increased prices up to 35%.
Overall, the impact wasn't large, but in certain services and commodities it was significant.
Numerous sleezy merchants rounded things WAYYYY up, others just exchanged the local currency symbol with the euro symbol--there was a widely reported incident in which the German Finance Minister was charged 3.50 euros for a bratwurst that had been 3.50 deutschmarks.
Rounding up transit fares in some cities increased prices up to 35%.
Overall, the impact wasn't large, but in certain services and commodities it was significant.
Sep 16th, 2003, 07:47 AM
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If there was indeed arbitrary rounding up of prices in EU countries following the introduction of the euro, then wouldn't this inflationary practice have been factored into the exchange rate - against the euro's favour? In other words, maybe the euro would have been relatively stronger in 2002 had this not occurred.
If I were Swedish, I'd conclude the situation to be a very mixed bag. Joing the ranks of those who wield the collective clout of the euro has to be weighed against having one's economy run, for all intents and purposes, by Brussels. It looks to this lay observer like the ol' centralized versus regional power fight.
If I were Swedish, I'd conclude the situation to be a very mixed bag. Joing the ranks of those who wield the collective clout of the euro has to be weighed against having one's economy run, for all intents and purposes, by Brussels. It looks to this lay observer like the ol' centralized versus regional power fight.
Sep 16th, 2003, 08:35 AM
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Just because of the arrogance of the largely unelected European Union, I am glad of what the Swedes did. Romano Prodi is an especially dislikeble man. In the end, Europe's main problem will be an explosion of pensioners with a relatively small number of workers to support the pensioners. Demographic decline is a real SOB.
Sep 16th, 2003, 08:50 AM
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September 16, 2003: "Without Glue of Euro, Bond May Dissolve"
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/16/in...pe/16SWED.html
STOCKHOLM, Sept. 15 ? One day after Swedish voters ruled out for years to come the likelihood of adopting the euro single currency, Europe's great project to bond its disparate players into a single force to rival the United States seemed doubtful.
The Swedish referendum rejecting euro membership by a staggering 14 percentage points not only bolstered euroskeptics in the other holdout countries ? Britain and Denmark ? but also reinforced the possibility that, far from being one, Europe could soon be perceived as falling into three castes.
more at link above...
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/16/in...pe/16SWED.html
STOCKHOLM, Sept. 15 ? One day after Swedish voters ruled out for years to come the likelihood of adopting the euro single currency, Europe's great project to bond its disparate players into a single force to rival the United States seemed doubtful.
The Swedish referendum rejecting euro membership by a staggering 14 percentage points not only bolstered euroskeptics in the other holdout countries ? Britain and Denmark ? but also reinforced the possibility that, far from being one, Europe could soon be perceived as falling into three castes.
more at link above...
Sep 17th, 2003, 06:19 AM
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Now I have read both Swedish and Finnish newspapers on the issue. The main reason for NO-voters seemed to be fear that the welfare state and its social benefits would suffer. Which may well be true, since the most vocal pro-euro speaker was industry. It seems that there were clear groups who voted NO: women, young people, people with lower incomes, and countryside. YES-voters were men from bigger towns. The only areas with YES-majority were Stockholm and Malmö with surroundings. >Plus more leftwing people voted NO, and those more on the right voted YES.
Sep 17th, 2003, 09:51 AM
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Reports of the imminent demise of the EU are way exaggerated.
The EU is , and always has been, split in many complex ways. Ireland, for instance, takes the Euro, but isn't in Schengen (while non-EU Norway is), and isn't in NATO (ditto). After expansion next spring, the EU will be divided much more significantly: between full members and countries not entitled to all those destructive agricultural subsidies or to full free movement of people (because the "new" countries' citizens won't have the automatic right to work in most of the "old" countries)
Oddly, the one thing that will unite the EU is the one issue it was allegedly created for in the first place: the completely free movement of goods within it. And there is no remote likelihood of this being eroded.
The EU is , and always has been, split in many complex ways. Ireland, for instance, takes the Euro, but isn't in Schengen (while non-EU Norway is), and isn't in NATO (ditto). After expansion next spring, the EU will be divided much more significantly: between full members and countries not entitled to all those destructive agricultural subsidies or to full free movement of people (because the "new" countries' citizens won't have the automatic right to work in most of the "old" countries)
Oddly, the one thing that will unite the EU is the one issue it was allegedly created for in the first place: the completely free movement of goods within it. And there is no remote likelihood of this being eroded.
