okszi

Hi everybody,
Just a brief warning concerning the Budapest west-bound trains.
Unfortunately nowadays we are seriously hit by the so called "illegal-legal immigration over-flooding" problem. Every day the Hungarian border police stops, detains, escorts to refugee camps 11-15 hundred people. EVERY single day. All this happens along the border with Serbia. This is the main reason the government has started the construction of 12 feet high and almost 110 miles long wall, all along the above mentioned border. For the time being there is no other single chance to stop that nightmarish influx. I do not want to get involved in any political comments or whatsoever. This is a given fact, take it as granted. By the end of July their number gets close to 80,000. This is a bit shocking, but again this is a fact.
Now, the reason I am writing this comment:
Thousands of refugees still manage to get to the Keleti or Nyugati train stations. Some days those places resemble more like a market place somewhere in Kabul, Colombo or Kosovo.
Quite often there are serious problems to get on the Austria-Germany bond trains. Even when you have valid tickets. Expect delays (this happens when the Hungarian police officers try to persuade some of the refugees to get off the train and some guys/girls are not really happy to obey the orders) and other small annoyances. Those people payed enormous amounts of money to get to the promised land and they really keen on reaching their final destinations, like Britain, Germany or France. Unfortunately we were happened to came across their path...
So plan your journey carefully when you have to get to the airport in Vienna etc., or change trains, whatever. Book your tickets in advance and leave yourself some extra journey time.
I am not trying to scare you or bring on panic. No! I just want you to be ready for any unpleasant surprise.
Maybe you will have the most pleasant ride on a train from Budapest to Vienna, Munich etc., but be ready for the opposite as well. Just in case.

janisj

It isn't political nor racist -- it is explaining on a TRAVEL board problems one might face traveling . . .

Same issues are causing disruptions at Calais and other places. Travelers need to know.

No need to attack okszi, s/he was providing on-the-scene information.

tower

Thank you for your candid observations Okszi.

<b>Xenophobia</b> has been an incurable disease since the beginning of time..everywhere on this planet (and likely on others in the galaxy). Or haven't you been on the banks of the muddy Rio Grande? No stranger to this country (USA) nor anywhere on any continent. Many of us are the products of ancestors who ran head-onto the disease as they sought a better life elsewhere...and we are the beneficiaries, grateful or not.

<i>Dedicated to those who have broken from tyranny, marching to a better tomorrow</i>.

From one of my more recent books on the subject.

Man_in_seat_61

All the feedback I have had about recent journeys from Budapest to Vienna, Munich etc has been 'normal', i.e. as expected, no major problems reported. Not that one-off problems can't occur, as anywhere.

As far as I am aware there is no need to avoid Hungary or Budapest Keleti station or the trains westwards.

I actually like hanging around Keleti out of professional interest - and I quite like the cheap but grand Baross restaurant in the corner by platform 6 too!

bilboburgler

Not seen this problem either Mark, though I wish they would put platforms in some of the smaller stations so you can get onto them more easily.

Anyone who thinks a wall is going to work is deluded. What next, barbed wire, mines and dogs? Strange that a government that has such odd views about Jews should be emulating the Isrealis. Still I bet you cannot believe what happed to this Jobbik politician http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32549099

okszi

OMG, yes, same old truth. Never try to help or advise people anything. You will never have a thank you for that.
I just TRIED to warn fellow travelers for a serious chance of having travel difficulties on westbound trains from Budapest. SO SIMPLE. Nothing personal, just the raw facts.
OK, these are just a few (from 1000's) articles in English about the refugee crises in Hungary, some YouTube footage as well, to get you clarify the picture:

https://global.handelsblatt.com/edit...ivides-hungary
http://budapestbeacon.com/news-in-br...-station/25163
http://hungarianspectrum.org/2015/07...ng-in-hungary/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_N7URx0PmM
http://www.budapesttelegraph.com/new...asylum-seekers

Refugees sometimes escorted in locked carriages from Szeged on to Budapest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRSIz6y3ahc


Earlier this year we had the Kosovo refugees problem. After the EU and Hungary etc., declared Kosovo is a safe country, so no help or any other social benefits, subsidies etc., their number decreased dramatically. Nowadays this is Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc.
Today's morning official numbers of detained illegal refugees for this past weekend:
Friday - 1662
Saturday - 1584
Sunday - 1497
Total - 4725.
That's it, just dry numbers.

My Dear friend "man in seat 61"! With all my due respect, and yes, I have frequently used your fantastic infos during my train travels in Asia and other places, when was the last time you've been in Budapest personally? Especially around the Keleti train station? Please just have a look at this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGLbSTjYYE4

Now this is my personal experience, why I posted this simple WARNING. Absolutely NOTHING personal. Just a piece of information. Please read on!

I was with a group of my clients having a nice diner at the Rosenstein restaurant. Fantastic restaurant and just 2 steps from the Keleti train station. So probably the most convenient place to have a farewell diner in Budapest before taking the train.
They had 1st (FIRST!!!) class round-trip tickets Vienna-Budapest-Vienna. Approximately 30-40 minutes prior to the departure, while we were having the deserts I asked them about seats reservation for that train.
Thay said they didn't have any, because it's First class. I asked for the tickets and find out, that they actually had reserved seats for their Vienna-Budapest leg. They bought their tickets via a travel agency in NYC. For some reason the seat reservations were only for the Vienna-Budapest leg. I think because you have to stamp your tickets here in Hungary or whatever any other reason. I was sure they needed the reservation, so I told them to ask for the bill, grabbed the tickets and immediately run to the train station. Thanks God it is really 2 minutes from the Rosenstein's. I popped in to the international booking office and was greeted with a sign on the door, that for tonight "There are no tickets left" for the Vienna, Munich Hbf etc., destinations. Second shock was that the office was just crammed with enormous amount of Middle-eastern and Balkan's looking (again nothing personal, just the facts) people. Families with 3-5 kids, women wearing headscarves (Hijabs, Shaylas, some in Himars and Chadors etc). Lots of the so-called Hyena taxi drivers, (this is nick name of a cab driver that doesn't belong to any of the official taxi companies) trying to talk those people in their vans, instead of riding the trains.
I took a line-ticket (for reserving a seat) from the little machine at the entrance. My number was 356 and the display on top showed the actual number in line, 160 something. I quickly realized that I would be probably waiting in that line for a couple of more days, so I looked for another option. I run to a station official, explained my situation and he pointed me to a door at the corner of the main entrance. There was an information desk over there. I presented the tickets to a guy there and was informed, that since these are First class tickets we do not need any reservation ( that's what he told me!) and we can go on.
OK, another run back to the station, jump in my car and an amok 3 drive to the station through all those new traffic lights and bus lanes, installed after the reconstruction of the Baross square in front of the Keleti. Time was flying, I have to admit.
We were at platform 2 minutes prior to the departure of the train.
The first class compartments were booked SOLID. I hastily asked the conductor what's next? He said, that yes, there was no seats reservation for this train (that was the Kalman Imre train 462 heading for Munich with a few sleeping compartments, heading for Zurich, Switzerland as well). YEs,Yes,Yes. The conductor repeated the same info. NO SEATS reservation for this train. Please don't ask me why. Just that.
He recommended 2 options. First one Standby (meaning standing all the way to Vienna!) travel. Second choice move on to the sleeping carriages at the end of the train and a friendly chat with the conductor(s) over there. He said Colleagues!!!
We threw the luggage on the almost moving train, my clients (4 persons) jumped in and the train left. About 4 hours later they Vibered me from Vienna and informed me that everything went fine. Since all of them were immigrants to the US from the former Soviet Union, they we superbly trained (by the good ole communist system) for any minor or major nuisances like that, they moved through a few carriages to the Swiss-bound ones. There they had a "friendly chat" with the most helpful conductors, paid a 40 Euro donation for the case of American-Hungarian friendship and had a most relaxing nap in sleeping compartments on their way to Vienna.

So once more, all the information provided is just my little trying to warn you for those unexpected "nuisances". OK, if you like adventures and active travels (like nice long jogging's with a few heavy suitcase) just go ahead and don't even bother to write my comments or posts. But if you are a tad on the Slower side of traveling, so maybe you'll find a piece of helpful information in this "little" posting and give yourself some extra time and planning.

Happy travels to all!

bilboburgler

Reminds me of the old Berlin to Moscow line, when every stop would be greeted by the pools of vomit down the corridor becoming a tsunami which eventually hit the far end of the carriage to pour down the steps, that is why people used to get on at the Berlin end of each carriage.

GinnyJo

To share my own recent positive experience:

We spent a very pleasant few hours at Keleti on two separate days in mid-May this year -- once to pick up our tickets and take some photos of the beautiful interior spaces, and the other to catch the train to Vienna.

Both times we had a very enjoyable experience, including sitting for over an hour in the station enjoying some terrific hot chocolate and coffee. We did not see any problems of any kind inside or outside, nor did we observe long lines, crowded conditions or any individuals or families fitting the stereotype of refugees. Again, not to rebut or raise a debate, but just to share my own experiences.

okszi

Yes GinnyJo, you are right. As I have said before it may or may not happen to you. You can have the most pleasent journey, or vice versa.
But, please do watch this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGLbSTjYYE4
Do you think it has been doctored or made somewhere at the Disney studios on Andy Vayna's personal request? Just try to count the number of refugees all along the walls of the Baross square (in front of the Keleti station). Even when back in 1989 we had dozens of thousands of east-German refugees, camping in the City Park, West German embassy's garden etc., that was still nothing in comparison what the chaos we have today.

Bilboburgler, I agree with you that the fence won't stop the people from trying to get through Hungary to the western lands of Milk & Honey. Unfortunately the overwhelming majority of the population supports the idea.
The government is quickly gaining back the heavy losses they suffered in the recent years. Of course on par with the the rapidly growing popularity of the extreme far-right. People never learn history lessons...

pariswat

When I have been drinking, I start telling people that taking back people to their country of origin makes me think of catching Jews in 1943 who would have escaped from Auschwitz and deliver them back to Nazis, telling them : 'They come from your country, deal with it' ...
Since I didn't drink yet, I'll let it pass, of course.
Now I don't have a solution, it would need more empathy that mankind is capable of.

BigRuss

<<Strange that a government that has such odd views about Jews should be emulating the Isrealis>>

Usual pap from the Brits - last check, the Magyars didn't have suicide bombers popping up in St. Iztvan's.

travel2europe

Hi, not sure if anyone still updating this. But I do thank the OP for the heads up. We plan to actually visit Szeged - as a day trip -this October having read about how pretty it is. We are now wondering if this will be a problem - in trains (in terms of availability of seats, booking etc), by way of safety etc should we visit - after reading a recent article about the migratory wave.

http://hungarytoday.hu/news/immigrat...n-border-87387

We have also read that restorations have begun at the synagogue. Does anyone know if restorations work have made it difficult to see much of the beauty of this synagogue?

Although we plan to be there just for a day, if it's turns out to be too much of a hassle, we might just spend more time in Budapest. We plan to stay for 7 nights in Budapest as is.

Thank you for any comments.

Blueeyedcod

Okszi - I saw your post because my 19 year old son will be in that area soon (on a gap year, you know the thing...).

I sent him a link to this post and he blanched at your insulting 'nightmarish influx' descriptive language and your comparisons to Colombo - in Sri Lanka - where as a family we have spent some time which is an unforgivable insult to this beautiful nation.

You may see it as 'informing travellers' - I beg to differ.

okszi

Hi travel2europe,

I presume you mean the restoration of the Synagogue in Szeged?
Yes, for the next 2 years they are going to renovate it upside-inside down. The first phase is the roof, so I think it will be a bit tricky to enjoy the full beauty of that beautiful building, to say the least.
To say that the trains from Szeged to Budapest are not an easy-riding trip nowadays is like to call the Syrian civil war an "isolated local conflict".
To add to it there is a "light" outbreak of some bacterial disease among the refugees, 20+ patients treated in the town's clinic for the time being. Probably some kind of Rotavirus, but there are no official test results yet.
The number of illegal immigrants since the beginning of the year well passed over the 100,000 and this is just the beginning of August.
We do not panic, but it is getting more and critical with every single day.
There will be probably only a slight problem getting the train tickets and some discomfort (smells, gangs like groupings, but otherwise peaceful refugees in your carriage.) However, some people say that the smells sometimes are a bit over the verge of human comfort, you can imagine many of those people traveling for months, without any human amenities....

Therefore, I WOULD strongly recommend you a visit to Pecs instead.
One of the most beautiful towns in Hungary. Probably strikingly beautiful.
Szeged is not bad, but definitely pales in comparison with this one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pécs
http://www.wmf.org/project/p%C3%A9cs-synagogue

From Budapest, the train leaves every 2 hours and the trip is only 10 minutes longer than to Szeged. Moreover, if you are adventurous, it is another 45 minutes by train and you can visit Villany, home of the BEST Hungarian Red Wines!
The most positive advantage, that under any negative conditions, you will not meet the sometimes-unbearable tourist hordes of Budapest or the Danube bend towns.

pariswat

+1 on Blueyecod.
I buy you a beer anytime

Blueeyedcod

Love how you, Okszi,continue to peddle your xenophobia disguised as information - 'White Man's Burden' by Rudyard Kipling springs to mind as does Eurocentric racism. But you sound far too ignorant to know of such things.
Who cares what you think about crowded trains, a newly refurbished historic buildng.. or anything for that matter...your opinions are ugly and tainted by lack of compassion or empathy in any shape or form.
Your final ugly, ugly comment about migrants' ignorance of sanitation simply and utterly defies belief.

Cowboy1968

Blueeyedcod

It's probably not helpful for OP's credibility that his video footage proof from YouTube is from a far-far right-wing association for which the term xenophobic would be a euphemism. And I think we agree on OP's mindset that speaks through his language.

Neverthess, it's also foolish to dismiss the message just because you don't like the sender. And, with all respect, I assume that neither you nor your son have any personal experience or knowledge of what is going on in Budapest.

While I disagree that the current situation requires any exaggerated hysteria on the side of the ordinary tourist, the situation has become more tense this summer than the years before.

And when there is tension, you run a risk to get into unpleasant situations like police raids or raids of (irony on) "concerned nationalists" (irony off) - like in the video.

You may not notice when touring the sights or shopping on Andrassy ut. but Hungary still has huge economic problems and is still far away from tackling issues with the same financial power as Germany, Britain or France. And also the latter are far from being immune from proposing new "anti-immigration" legislation like the UK or the influence of xenophobic parties like France and Germany.

travel2europe

Hi Okszi, thanks for that. Pecs is already on our list. I'd probably now spend a night there rather than a day trip and cut Szeged - though we were simply just drooling looking at the pretty pictures. Can I also know if similar crowds are expected on the Budapest-Ljubljana route (as with the Budapest-Vienna line)?

okszi

Hi, travel2Europe,
I am a little bit afraid now to comment or give any advice on travels, after those heavy attacks I have undergone, but still I will try.
No, you will not have ANY problems on the Budapest Ljubljana route.
The only routes that you can have any, well now I have to be extremely careful not to hurt anyone feelings, OK let's say "little inconveniences" are:
The route from Szeged through Baja, both bus and train travel, actually all along the Hungarian-Serbian border. Then, the westbound trains (Austria, Germany) from the Nyugati and Keleti train stations and on the trains from Budapest to Debrecen (where we have probably the largest refugee camps, the one where the refugees already had clashes with Hungarian police). Of course there are chances you will not meet a single refugee(s) during your travels in Hungary, but the problem does exists.

As I have said before, the police jumps on the train, checks the documents and escorts off the train a number (varies from day to day) of illegal immigrants. That might cause a delay of 20-40 minutes, sometimes less, sometimes more. So if you have a flight from, let's say Vienna airport, plan your journey carefully. Give yourself some extra time. I also do hate to spent long waiting hours at airports, but it is still whole lot better than to be late for your (especially overseas) flight.

Now back to travels. If you are thinking of the Szeged bound direction, you can give a try to Kecskemet
http://wikitravel.org/en/Kecskem%C3%A9t

A lovely town, with lots of Art Nouveau buildings, as well with the former Synagogue.
If you are in for cars, then you can take a free tour in English or German of the Mercedes factory in Kecskemet, which is quite an expressive thing itself.
http://gyar.mercedes-benz.hu/fooldal

Also since you mentioned chances of staying overnight in Pecs and if you like wines, then you better spend the night in Villany, the local Reds and tasty food, definitely provide some memorable experiences

travel2europe

Hello and again thanks for your reply! I have taken note of your suggestions (esp Villany) and we have also read about Kecskemet as I believe another Fodorite had posted lovely pictures.

I do hope that certain comments here will not deter you from providing valuable information to some of us who do not readily have access to what's happening in Hungary. And that is precisely why some people use forums, blogs etc to get ideas or plan their trips.