FlannerUK/NeoPatrick - Nowhere on this thread have I said anyone on an overnight sleeper train will be able to see the Alps! I've said that once you get into Italy the sun will be up - which it will. Most Italian services leave early evening from Paris. Thus the dark part of the trip is France and the Alps.

Before making further facetious comments about 'facts' getting in the way, how about dealing with basics like reading what people have actually written!

Yes, a lot of the trip will be in the dark - but 'laughing' at the idea of someone seeing Italy 'in their dreams' is complete c*** - it WILL be daylight for that part of the journey.

I don't disagree that the flight will be quicker/less tortuous, but it's utter rubbish to say train travellers won't get to see the Italian countryside.

This isn't the first thread you've given erroneous advice on - telling people that they need to leave tips in UK restaurants with service charges was also inaccurate - people are free to do that if they want, but it cetainly isn't expected.

Making sarky comments about other peoples advice, psoting repeatedly, or being especially vehement doesn't make wrong information 'right'.

Well, if we're going to make accusatory comments, then how about showing me where I said you DID say that? There have been many posts on Fodors about enjoying the scenery through the alps, and here was a thread including comments about the train being worth it because of the scenery. Nowhere did I specifically address you, other than to AGREE that you'd have a couple hours of scenery viewing in the morning. My posts are to point out that some 18 or 20 hours of pure torture to get 2 or 3 hours of "seeing the countryside at the end of the journey are not worth it in MY OPINION. I thought it was clear that I was stating my opinion -- perhaps not? In any case, NOWHERE did I suggest you wouldn't see any Italian countryside in the morning.

If you think my comments had anything to do with misreading your comments, you have a far more serious problem than I do, including apparently some sort of persecution complex that makes you think anything anyone says has to be about YOUR post. My comments weren't about you, if you bother to read like you suggest to me.

Now. Can you point out where I said you "won't get to see the Italian countryside" since you're so concerned about accuracy of what people say? Do you not understand the phrase "the end doesn't justify the means" when I specifically admitted you do see Italian countryside? Why on earth are you specifically misquoting me?

And please quote the post where I indicated it was anything other than personal choice to leave a tip in the UK where a service charge was included. I'd be interesting in reading where I made that mistake because I sure normally try to explain that it IS a matter of personal choice.

What is this all about? If you're going to complain about people misquoting you when they haven't, why on earth are you misquoting others -- me specifically?


But there is one part of your post that is excellent advice:
"Making sarky comments about other peoples advice, psoting repeatedly, or being especially vehement doesn't make wrong information 'right'."

Read my comments above, and read yours. Then decide which ones were more "vehement" and "sarky", whatever that means.

Quote 1

I'm trying to figure out how much you can enjoy the spectacular scenery of Italy during the night on a sleeper train, especially if you are asleep. What am I missing here?

Quote 2

I know what you mean. I'm still chuckling over that whole idea of "seeing the countryside" while taking a sleeper train. In your dreams -- literally.

What part of those posts do you not understand? I AM still trying to figure out how much scenery you see from the above mentioned 7 PM departure from Paris until 6:10 AM when the sun comes up. Those are the hours you are supposedly sleeping and would not be seeing any scenery except "in your dreams". Is the concept that riding a train all night so that you can get two hours of scenery viewing in the morning -- not clear to you? Is my expression "how MUCH you can enjoy the scenery during the night" too difficult a concept for you that you think it says you won't see ANY scenery after the sun comes up in the morning? Is English your native language? If not I apologize for the words being too difficult for you.

And the idea of facts getting in the way of the "picture" is that the idea of spending 20 hours on a night train for the purpose of not missing scenery is ruined by the "fact" that you won't see anything until after 6 in the morning. That post was NOT specifically aimed at you, but rather at anyone who would take an overnight train ride because he thinks it will be worth it for the scenery. My OPINION is that it isn't worth it. Simple enough?

Can I make this any easier for you to understand? I'm still waiting for you to tell me where I say you won't see ANY scenery in Italy. Did someone remove that part of my post? I don't think so.

1. neo makes snide, rude, contradictory comment about someone else's post

2. person defends self

3. neo goes beserk, demanding poster to "show me" this and that

4. poster shows neo his own comments that are rude, snide, contradictory

5. beserk goes into overdrive, neo claims he "feels sorry" for the poster, who is so stupid, dumb, ignorant that he doesn't understand simple English, accuses poster of having a "persecution complex," "apologizes" for being too smart for the poster to understand, etc

6. neo tries to soothe own hurt feelings with comments about how dumb other people are


conclusion: neo for dictator! all hail neo! neo should have his own message board, "all about me"

You seem to have these problems more than anyone else on here, bud. Ever think it might be you?

In other words, it's all too complicated for you too, huh, 2tired2night?

I'm not the one going berserk, nor asking for sympathy. Too bad we aren't supposed to try to explain ourselves here according to your rules. That's all I'm trying to do. So far I still haven't seen anyone show me where I said you wouldn't see "any" scenery or anything even remotely like that.

Incidentally, everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that the original post said they'd probably be going to Venice after Rome, so they would be training through much of that scenery anyway. Or is that not important?

Why don't you just stick to one screenname, 2tired2night, instead of switching to this "special" one whenever you want to be particularly nasty? I have nothing to hide. Obviously you do.