Ellebella

My husband and myself are taking our first train trip in Europe in September. We start in Paris and end in Vienna with Switzerland in the middle. The Swiss portion is giving us problems as we can't figure out all the train and cable car and funicular connections and which rail passes to get or not get. Our itinerary so far is as follows:
3 days in Paris
Paris to Colmar via Strasbourg (afternoon)
2 days in Colmar (wine route)
Colmar via Basel to Interlaken, 1 nite with boat trip on Lake Thune, weather permitting.
3 days in Wengen with day trips to Jungfrau one day and Murren, Gimmelwald and Schilthorn another day, again weather permitting.
From Wengen the Golden Pass to Montreux. Afternoon in Montreux and Chateau Chillion.
Board train in afternoon for trip to Chamonix.
2 days in Chamonix.
Chamonix to Zermatt, 1 day.
Zermatt to Chur on Glacier Express. Overnite in Chur.
Chur to Innsbruck, 2 days.
Innsbruck to Salzburg, 2 days.
Salzburg to Vienna, 3 days with one day trip to Krems and Melk with short Danube cruise and return to states from Vienna.

We're trying to do this in three weeks and are worried about too much train travel, expecially the four days in the middle between Interlaken to Chamonix to Zermatt to Chur. Does this sound doable?
Also, any tips on train passes in Switzerland? We're confused with all the websites and whether cable cars and trams, etc are included with the passes. Any suggestions on the lowest prices with all these variables or the most comprehensive website to compare the passes?

Any help you can give us would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

PalQ

To speak to an expert that will answer all your questions, call the European Rail Hotline, a free service offered by Budget Europe (800-441-2387) and you'll speak to someone who has done all this by train and traveled by train in Europe for years. They also sell railpasses but there is no obligation. Rick Steves, not Rick himself, but a staffer, offers to 'answer one or two questions before purchase' and i think gives 10 minutes free consulting time after purchase and then charges quite a few bucks for more intensive consulting - but all that is free from BETS - that why i always recommend them after using them for years. Ask for their free European Planning & Rail Guide that will give you loads of useful info on places you're heading. I suspect the Eurail Select Saver pass good for France, Switzerland and Austria will be a good deal for you even though it doesn't cover only about half of the Glacier Express route - or maybe a Swiss Pass which would cover much more in Switzerland, including travel to and from Wengen, in combo with point-point in France and Austria. But probably Eurail Select will be best.
Compare railpass efficacy at railsaver.com. I think your trip is very doable - at least in my terms though many Fodorites will tell you to slow down a bit. The Glacier Express never thrilled me too much - a rather tedious 8-hour marathon thru nice but not spectacular scenery. The Martigny-Chamonix train ride is much more spectacular and short - only two hours compared to 8 and it's all covered by Eurailpass. And Zermatt is nice but the Wengen Grindelwald area to me is much nicer in terms of a wider variety of things to do. Don't neglect taking the boats on Lake Thun or Lake Brienz - free with railpass and with a first class pass you can sit on the open-air top deck. Zermatt is basically hiking or the Matterhorn - if it's cloudy as oft be little to do and a waste of time if only there for one day. Scratch the Glacier Express and Eurail Select becomes the pass to dwell on. www.sbb.ch for Swiss schedules. www.bahn.de for train schedules for all of Europe (click on internat. guests at top bar for English page where you can easily get schedules for any train in Europe. As much as you're traveling i think that the consecutive-day Eurailpasses may be your best bet. Eurails only get 25% discount of trains from Interlaken-Wengen however, but those trains are not that pricey.

PalQ

I think that if you go from Colmar/Basel to Geneva, then Geneva to Chamonix, then to Interlaken then Zermatt (though i suggest you could axe the Glacier Express and not miss much) in which case it would be better to go Chamonix-Zermatt then to Interlaken and onto to Salzburg via Lucerne and Zurich. Oh well just a thought.

Edward2005

This site gives a good run-down on the various Swiss rail passes available.

http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/ausswitz.htm

It looks like you will be in Switzerland 4-5 days. My guess is that it will be cheaper to buy point-to-point tickets as you go. Generally, these things make financial sense only if you're there a week or more. One thing I really like about the Swiss Pass is not having to stand in line to buy tickets; I just hopped on the train.

Just now I looked at that site and it sells a Swiss Pass for 4 consecutive days for $153, so that may be a good deal. It covers the Golden Pass and many of the funiculars and cable cars in the Berner Oberland, plus all city buses and boats throughout the country.

So, you could go from Interlaken to Lauterbrunnen to Wengen at no cost. You could go from Wengen to Murren or Gimmelwald also for no cost. But from Wengen to Grindlewald, Kliene Scheidegg, or Jungfraujoch (as well as to Schilthorn) would cost extra, but you would get 1/4 off.

Also check out the Berner Oberland pass instead of the Swiss Pass since most of your Switzerland time will be spent there. And then there is the 1/2 fare card. Good luck sorting through the options.

Edward2005

Also, this site gives you a good idea of travel times and cost for point-to-point tickets.

Edward2005

Forgot the link because I'm an idiot:

http://www.raileurope.com/us/index.htm

PalQ

Edward gives some good advice but is amiss in one thing - Swiss pass does not cover most funiculars or cable cars in Berner Oberland - it covers one funicular (Lauterbrunnen-Murren) and one cable car (Murren-Gimmelwald-Stechelberg) but does give 25% off on the zillions of others as well as Jungfraujoch train. The Swiss Pass is a no-brainer for your itinerary but the EurailSelect or Eurail may be better because of your other travel plans. Note again if going Swiss Pass - though you can buy them at stations in Swiss they are significantly cheaper in US currently as a check with www.sbb.ch will affirm. Swiss Pass covers in full Martigny-Chamonix railway i believe even the French part.

PalQ

You could consider point-point Paris-Colmar; Colmar-Basel then Swiss Pass then pt-pt Buchs (Swiss border town with Austria) to Salzburg and Vienna.
Paris-Colmar about $60 (2nd class) Colmar-Basel about $25, Buchs-Vienna via Salzburg about $75 - guesstimates based on Raileurope fares - check PREM discounted fares at www.sncf.com French rail site. Add point-point with Swiss Pass which passes for all your Swiss itinerary including pricey Glacier Express and trains to Wengen and it may give you more travel days at a less price than Eurail. there is a Switzerland-Austria pass but its benefits are similar to Eurail so do not reap benefits of a Swiss Pass with it.

tcreath

I don't have much information in regards to the trains but I did want to comment on one part of your itinerary. I notice that you have 2 days alloted for Innsbruck. My husband and I spent quite a bit of time in Austria in May and drove through Innsbruck on the way to Appenzell, Switzerland. We were very unimpressed and I was glad that we didn't stay there. Its essentially just a large city that happens to be in a pretty setting. The old part of Innsbruck is okay but overall we couldn't wait to get out of the city. If you are looking for somewhere to stay in the area, Hall is very close and much more picturesque.

You may have reasons for wanting to stay in Innsbruck but I thought I would just share my impressions. I would hate for you to be suprised once you got there. I've seen others comment on this as well, and once I saw the city for myself I could instantly see why.

Anyways, regardless of what you do I'm sure you will have a wonderful time. You will be in some gorgeous areas.

Tracy

PLM

Instead of hassling yourselves, why not join a tour in Switzerland? A company we have used, Globus, has a 9 or 11 day tour starting and ending in Zurich. For extreme sightseeing, meaning all the major sites, a tour is great.

PalQ

Though i grant you Innsbruck is no Salzburg it's good to spend two nights here - otherwise the train trip from Chur would take up most of the day and you'd see little here before having to move on the next day. Yeh the center of town takes a couple of hours but there is the very nice Schloss Ambras (sp?), an exceptionally interesting fortified monastery on the edge of town - the mountain tram to Ingls has a stop near its entrance. And the trip to Ingls via this mountain tram yields fine views from this flower-bedecked Alpine village over Innsbruck nestled in its Inn Valley far below. So a leisurely day is what you need - no more. Two days would be too much but one night and one day is perfect! And Innsbruck is not that bad - i actually have always found it unique and inviting - Baroque churches, sparwling parks and gardens, etc., all encircled by the Alps.

metlc

Elle,

We did the same September training (Paris-Vienna) and back. Your trip is more extensive.

I might substitute an extra couple of days in Montreux for Colmar and visit the Vaud vinyards instead.

Another substitution: I would eliminate Innsbruck and instead book two nights into Chur. With the extra day there, you could take a daytrip on the Bernina Express over to Italy and back. Loop through Davos on the return, if you're in the mood.

The segment from Chur to Innsbruck is magnificent. Staying on through to Salzburg isn't all that long, especially if you get an entire six-seat cabin to yourselves like we did.

For travel, you'll have to spend some time working the Railsaver website to come up with the best fare choices. The Swiss passes won't help you in France and Austria, so my guess is you should get a five-day Eurail Saver Selectpass for France-Switz-Austria. That would cover your Paris-Swiss and your Swiss-Austria legs, plus a few others. You'll pay supplements in the Bernese Oberland and Glacier Express. Buy the others point-to-point.

Ellebella

Everyone:
Thanks so much for the great info. Have spent much time this week on the rail websites and think we have it figured out. We've changed our itinerary from the point we're in Chamonix, eliminating Zermatt and going to Luzern for two nites, then on the Salzburg with an afternoon in Innsbruck instead of two days. With the extra two days we're going to spend one in Hallstatt and one in Melk with the Danube cruise to Krems and back instead of making that a day trip from Vienna.
We had doubts about Zermatt and Innsbruck all along, but investigating more after all the great replys helped us make our decision.
Thanks for all the great help.

Elle

Ellebella

Oh, I forgot about the railpasses. We the change of itinerary, the six-day
three-country Eurail pass with point-to-point tickets in the Interlaken-Wengen area works out great and about a $200 per person saving over our other itinerary.

Thanks again.