Traffic ticket in France
 

We have been home for just under two weeks to find a traffic violation for speeding with instructions to either pay or contest the matter. It was mailed to our residence, the address likely provided bu the car rental agency. We may choose to ignore it but before making any final decisions in that regard, I wanted to canvass the experience of fellow fodorites. It is noteworthy that this alleged violation occurred within 30 minutes of our arrival.

We expect to travel to France again at some point in the future. Any thoughts from those who have had this happen before?

It would be unwise not to pay.

Why Kerouac?

Would you do this in your home country?

Why would you not pay it? You broke the law and got caught.

Too "moralistic"? What would happen at home if you got pulled over at home with an outstanding warrant for an unpaid ticket? If you ever plan to go back to France, think about this very practical issue.

Finally, you will be getting a charge on your credit card for providing your address to the police. That is something you cannot contest and will have to pay. You will sleep a lot more easily if you just pay it and chalk it up to rxperience.

I'd pay, mainly because you broke the law but also because one day the various databases will be linked up and you will have an unpaid fine sat in a Schengen country.

Several weeks after seeing a tell-tale camera flash on a French highway (and noting that suddenly all the other cars on the road had slowed down dramatically), I received a speeding ticket (and later a bill from the rental car company too for the cost of having to provide my contact information to the authorities!!!). I paid immediately (conveniently, online) because it's a VERY small world and I want to drive everywhere I go! I firmly believe one way or another they will hunt you down and torment you eternally if you don't pay and just consider it a cost of driving abroad.

If you do not pay then the car hire place will then charge you with a hefty admin charge on top

>>>It is noteworthy that this alleged violation occurred within 30 minutes of our arrival.<<<

Why would that be noteworthy?

The French seem more efficient than the Italians (they often take a year to mail their tickets).

Most rental car contracts have the fee listed in the contract for providing your info to the police (even in the US this is listed). It's usually 30-50€ and since they have your credit card info, it will be charged to your card.

The same thing happened to us when we were in the Luberon last fall. We never thought we were speeding, but we must have been. Our rental car company billed us for the tickets (three!) and we paid them. The country makes a fortune on foreigners, but that's the price for driving there. Needless to say, we will be especially cautious on our next trip!

"The country makes a fortune on foreigners, but that's the price for driving there."

I'm pretty sure the cameras don't know which cars are being driven by foreigners and which are being driven by locals.

Like it or not, radar camera fines have become a big source of revenue for the French government and these cameras are everywhere. I have read that one camera at a posted speed reduction point on A10 near Tours issues around 300 tickets a day and not just to foreigners.

To increase revenues, or as the French government says to increase safety, there are strict laws against using a radar detector or even using a GPS with mapped, known radar locations. Speed limits are generally not a secret and drivers, no matter from where they come, need to known the traffic rules and obey them or risk paying for infractions.

Europcar will charge you a 25€ administrative fee per infraction for supplying the police with driver information when a rental cars is cited for speeding. The French police now sends tickets, payable on line, to the driver.

If you are innocent and can prove it, contest the charge. If you are guilty, why would you not pay? Data bases are easy to maintain and once your name, driver´s license, and passport number are flagged by the National Police, it could be an issue in the future and possibly in any EU country.

I don't understand why it happening in 30 minutes is noteworthy, either, as a lot of speed cameras are on the major highways, and airports tend to be near those. Seems normal if you speed that you might get one as soon as you start speeeing.

<< It is noteworthy that this alleged violation occurred within 30 minutes of our arrival.>>

No it's not.

Pay it.

I agree with everyone else. Pay it.

Thanks for your replies. We will pay it because I do not want any potential complications on future trips to France. We have driven in France , Spain, Italy and Portugal over many years and this is our first ever traffic ticket for speeding. Or anything else. DH was at the wheel and does not even have any speeding violations in Canada.

We were very tired when we arrived and picked up the car. A long journey from the west coast of North America will do that. We were driving quite slowly and cautiously, or so I thought. Chalk it up to experience!

We just paid a bill to the Swiss police in Zurich or Lucerne, for a violation in March. DH has "had his picture taken" more than once in Switzerland! Yes, pay the fine.

<i>We were very tired when we arrived and picked up the car. </i>

You were very lucky that you only were fined for speeding. Driving after a long transatlantic flight is not a particularly shrewed strategy. Fatigue and driving on unfamiliar roads in a rental car can be a recipe for serious accidents. I would discourage anyone from attempting to drive under like conditions.

Nikki- no need to be condescending. You miss my point as well. My point is that foreigners ie; tourists) are not familiar or aware of the cameras and the strict enforcement. We "foreigners" don't realize we did anything wrong until we get home. The rental agency never warned us about traffic cameras. Would you not have to admit that "locals" are much more likely to,be aware of where the speed traps are??

It should be noted that traffic signal cameras are now spreading like wildfire throughout France and they are starting to bring in even more money than the speeding cameras since the French have an unfortunate tendancy to drive through "overripe yellow" lights. Tourists never enter into the calculations because they represent such a tiny minority of the drivers on French streets and roads.

Most foreigners who drive in France are very well aware that there are traffic signal and speeding cameras, as they also exist all over Europe in every neighboring country of France.
If the French government had to rely on the few euros they make from foreigners from countries where those cameras don't exist, they would be bankrupt.
It happens all the time that you get a ticket as a local, and have no real clue that you went too fast at that specific speed trap.
Just keep in mind that "going with the flow" is no wise strategy for driving in Europe. You can't beat the system unless you obey the speed limits.

"We were very tired when we arrived and picked up the car. A long journey from the west coast of North America will do that. We were driving quite slowly and cautiously, or so I thought. Chalk it up to experience!"

This is a good example, and I am not being snarky, of why so many of us recommend not driving after an overnight flight. It would be far worse in the UK or Ireland, but no one is at her/ his best after a long flight. I got a doozy of a ticket in Columbus, Ohio, on a business trip as I sailed along the interstate at 70 in a 55 zone. I was so glad to be off the plane after a bumpy flight, that my brain was just totally disengaged.

Sorry, I did not mean to be condescending. I just think that when you are the outsider, you tend to forget that things like speeding tickets are far more common among locals. The government neither targets tourists with this policy nor makes a significant profit from speeding foreigners, as opposed to speeding resdents.

Well camera fines are not limited to France, we have cameras at almost every intersection where I live.
It is not something one should have to be warned about by a rental car agency.

There are rules and practices. The rules (the limits) are more static, but the practices (how enforced) have changed. That is why those who have driven before can get caught if they continue to drive assuming the past practices. If you read postings in this forum, you will find that even the most seasoned travelers get caught by traffic cameras - the time is changing. Unless the enforcement agencies have fouled up in siting of these cameras, I presume these devices always bring in sufficient revenues, so I don't think there is any lack of funding to install these devices. When doing train vs. car analysis, I now include probability costs of getting caught by these cameras with car rentals. My friends think they are too smart to get caught by these cameras so why bother, but for me, I do comparisons based on probabilities instead of wishful thinking.

For any EU or Swiss citizens reading, as of this autumn all traffic violations anywhere in Europe will be charged to you in your own country. This has already been in application for a year between France, Switzerland, Belgium and Luxembourg.

Naturally, there are some holdouts and guess who they are? United Kingdom, Ireland, Denmark.

Frankly this is quite important but not actually for the "common tourist." 15% of the fatal accidents in France are caused by international truckers who drive too fast because of management pressure. Perhaps they will slow down a bit when they have to pay the fines.

We just received a speeding ticket today when my husband's pedal must have been to the metal, in a small way. ;- ) We have to pay them 45euro. Sigh. Still the week in Amboise (and 2 days in Chartres) was worth it.

That's not bad for a speeding ticket. Where I live in the US, there is a law that the ticket for speed camera infractions caps at $40, regardless of how fast you are going. However, in neighboring DC, the fine starts at $92 for only 11-15 miles over the limit, and can go up to $150 if you are going 25 miles over.

The Europewide automotive ticket agreement begins this week in all EU countries except the 3 I already mentioned. The UK and Ireland staying out is not really a problem, because there are not really huge numbers of people who take cars to the continent even if we see what seems like "plenty" in France at least as far as Paris. Denmark refusing to participate makes no sense, though.

Kerouac, do you know if that agreement means fines are charged at the rate of the country of residence, or at the rate of the country where the offence took place?

We have never had a fine when abroad, though DH has collected plenty here, but I am curious about that.

As stated above, this must be due to achange in practice not in policy. Here in my corner of the US, the cameras have been not for speed but for red lights. The habit of pushing through yellow and early red is being wiped out by $80 charges. My own came with pictures -- I was 0.3 seconds too late in entering the intersection.

The driving speed habit around here is to regard the speed limit as a minimum speed. If they ever start speed cameras around here, the government will get rich and we'll all be late to work.

. It is noteworthy that this alleged violation occurred within 30 minutes of our arrival.>

no just that you did not care to heed local traffic laws - to even suggest that the French cops are so corrupt to target tourists right out of the rental agency is absurd - you no doubt broke the law - pay up to avoid being an Ugly American!

Well that seems to be calling a spade a spade... French cops targeting tourists - c'est incroyable!

French cops have no way of targeting tourists. The cameras have no way of knowing who you are or where you or your car come from. That's absurd and paranoid. Plenty of European, including French, car renters, are driving rental cars.

<i>French cops have no way of targeting tourists.</i>

Unless they drive tax-exempt "leases" that have red plates.

The OP way back in May was talking about a radar ticket, which is as color blind as a dog.

exactly. I think where I live, the cameras did start with red light runners, but expanded to cover speeding. I've gotten a couple, and now I do pay more attention to those areas and make sure not to go over the limit, so they do work. I don't have any objection to them, I think it is a reasonable way for the state to raise funds, as it is "voluntary" in the sense that you don't have to be breaking the law. And where I live, there are signs actually warning you that one is coming up, so they aren't even secretive about it.

There was an article in the paper here about some whiners complaining about one particular camera that caught them speeding because the camera is several hundred feet before the speed limit changes (to be higher), or something. So if it is normally 30, it goes up to 40 and they were caught because they were going over 40 before the new speed limit set in. I drive that road a lot and their argument is bogus as it isn't confusing at all what the limit is where the camera is which is quite a distance before the new sign, it isn't confusing as they claim. They were probably always speeding on that road, anyway, the full length of it, but some people just like to complain.

I just wish there were more red light cameras in my part of Paris. The one closest to where I live is the one that records the most infractions in the city.

PalenQ why so snarky? I never suggested that French police targeted tourists and it is not that we didn't care to heed local laws, we made a mistake regarding the speed limit in a particular location.

I am not sure where the Ugly American suggestion comes from. Please appreciate that many Fodorites hail from outside the USA . As a bilingual Canadian, I have never been confused with being Amercan , ugly or otherwise during my many stays in France.

The original post was to seek the collective wisdom of those on this forum. As Kerouac observes, this was 6 months ago, and the fine has long since been addressed.