Tours and Tipping
 

I have a related question about what to give the tour guide under a different set of circumstances described in the longer thread.
I am posing this as a separate question because of some key differences.

First, the company provided no definite guidelines even upon request.

Second, the tour was quite small. It was not one of these big bus tours of 30 to 40 passengers; it was more like 6.

Third, the driver and guide were the same person.

The length of the tour was 4 days and 3 nights. Baggage handling was minimal.

On a per person per tour day basis, the small tour was relatively more expensive.

The currency involved was the UK pound.

I have no idea what a fair tip would have been so I guessed the amount based on what I knew of the guidelines for larger tours. I went with the high end amount, but still felt unsure.

My question: What would you have done?

A previous tour guide suggested 3-6 pounds per driver/guide and per person per day. I might add a pound for inflation but to me that was the low end. I would have tipped 30 pounds per traveler or 60 total but I'm sure some would find that high or even low?

In this world up side down, it seems that passengers are supposed to paid the salary of the people that work for the tours companies. Having said this a nice tip is always appropiated if one feels some one deserves it for being nice doing their job, the amount of the tip in my opinion should depend only of the way each passenger wishes to do it.

Travelers in my opinion are abused by the travel agencies ...
I know that this might make people unconfortable but I believe this a fact, no one likes to think that has been abused, ......

The guides say they're paid very modestly and that they depend on tips. How can it be abusive if the customer knows beforehand that the tip is expected and decides to proceed anyway?

Bob, I would have gone with the high end amount on the tour you describe.

To add a little more information, the tour company puts out no suggested tip percentages ir amounts at all unlike the big companies.

We stayed in B and B's or small hotels well away from big cities. The per person cost per day on the tour was $250.

A 10 day trip at that rate would be $2,500. There were no commercial stops such as those I endured on a big bus tour nor were there a host of optional activities that runs the cost up dramatically if one takes all the options.

At any rate, I find my judgment was too skewed.

It is one of those things that in the absence of guide lines from the company itself, I was left grasping for a fair amount.

For me it is abuse, because if you hire something which has been listed as a tour of so and so is in, the quoted price it should be included the salary of everyone involved. In my business I do not expect our clients to pay for my expenses or for the salaries of the people I have hired. I am not abusive as they apparently are with the people they hire, I pay them well so they do have to be around begging for tips re their wellbeing depends on the generosity of third parties.
I never so a brochure that stated reality like saying:
the people that work for us do not get properly paid so the DEPEND on your generosity. We that have not been able to paid them fairly suggest that you do it, and we suggest that you pay them ....each day they work for each of you.
This is a mad world, this for me is abuse, and for the reasons I have stated I think it is abusive.

For me it is abuse, because if you hire something which has been listed as a tour of so and so is in, the quoted price it should be included the salary of everyone involved. In my business I do not expect our clients to pay for my expenses or for the salaries of the people I have hired. I am not abusive as they apparently are with the people they hire, I pay them well so they do have to be around begging for tips nor their wellbeing depends on the generosity of third parties.
I never read a brochure that stated reality like saying:
the people that work for us do not get properly paid so they DEPEND on your generosity. We that have not been able to paid them fairly and we suggest that you do it, and we suggest that you pay them ....each day they work for each of you.
This is a mad world, this for me is abuse, and for the reasons I have stated I think it is abusive.
When I see such a brochure I will agree that it is not abusive till then I believe that the world is up side down and that they take us for fools.

Sorry by misstake I posted twice, the last one, is supposed to be my posting.

Sorry I believe that I have been abuse with everyone's patiente, so many mistakes....anyway I guess the general idea can be understood. Sorry, I appologize.

I go along with G.

The price of a tour should be inclusive.

Tips should be a token of appreciation for extra good service, not an additional payment because the owner doesn't pay a proper salary.

If the help in European restaurants are paid from the SC, and small tips are intended to show appreciation, why should it be different for tour guides?

((I))

Maybe it "should be" inclusive, but it's not, I am only going by what the guides told me. Not tipping on the Globus tour I went on a few years ago would be equivalent to not tipping at the restaurant we went to the other night. Both times I just figured it into the cost of the trip and didn't feel abused. The woman made an interesting guide and handled a lot of little crap, and the driver was excellent through hills and cities. They expected it and needed it as part of their pay.

Fidel, do you know that drivers and guides are not adequately paid? In some countries there is a minimum wage, and they have to receive at least that amount. If that is the case, the tip is a top-up rather than a component of basic income.

Don't presume that guides and drivers will give you a disinterested view. If they can convince you that a large tip is "needed", then many of them will do so.

Guides who work for someone else are usually very poorly paid. Minimum wage isn't necessarily a living wage, assuming they get even that (if they don't work year-round and full-time, they may not be subject to minimum-wage laws).

On the flip side, however, guides can make substantial money from tips (2 euro times 50 people on the bus adds up), and many get kickbacks from stores, skimmed directly from gross sales and paid in cash (and undeclared). So if the bus passengers walk into a store towards which the guide has pointed them and spend 500 euro, the guide makes 50 euro.

Freelance guides lose a lot to the government if they declare their income. However, some don't bother with that, and offer attractive rates that they keep for themselves (in addition to any tips and kickbacks).

Anthony, if you ask any government whether minimum wage is a living wage, the answer you will get is yes, that is what it is about. I will concede that it does no more than cover the basic cost of living -- a person on minimum wage would have difficulty funding a holiday.

But that is pretty well my point: where a minimum wage applies, you can presume that a tour guide or driver is paid enough to live frugally. Yes, I think it is appropriate to tip them if you do a reasonable job, but the amount you give should, I think, be sensibly related to what the facts are. There is a difference between a person on minimum wage hoping for tips as an income supplement and a person whose only source of income is tips.

I have a perverse streak: the harder somebody tries to incentivise me to tip by any means other than doing the job well, the lower my tip gets. Direct solicitation reduces it to zero.

Where was the tour? UK? I guess so as you used £s.

I would probably have given a small tip but not a huge one. In the UK the person would have earned at least minimum wage, which for an adult over 21 is £5.35 an hour. You are not going to live well on it, but you can live on it, especially bearing in mind tax credits etc if you have a family. The fact that it may be seasonal work is not relevant.
I hope the suggestion of £30-£60 a day was for the whole group, not each individual!
If in the UK, I'd probably have given about £10-£15 a day between the six of us.