Robert - <BR><BR>Everything is relative. Some people may feel that independent travel in Western Europe doesn't remove a person from the "inexperienced and fearful of the unknown" category - they're just nice enough (and secure enough) not to criticize. Western Europe is EXTREMELY tourist friendly and navigable compared to many other parts of the world.

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Surlock<BR>You are quite rite about the balcony. Both my husband and I came to that same conclusion. Next time in a European cruise, to the bottom of the ship and no window. The extra bucks for sightseeingt. Also, I see you are a neighbor. I'm from Venezuela. Thanks for your excellent tips.<BR><BR>Robert:<BR>I agree with you on many points. Even though we enjoyed the limited sightseeing, we found out that other people were able to gather in small groups, and sightsee on their own without the forced shopping experience. We came to believe that the shops we were taken to, were owned by the cruise line. Specially Athens. They said all shops were closed at noon, but found most of them open on the way back to the ship!!!!<BR><BR>Yippy:<BR>After the cruise, the rest of our trip we took on our own. We didn't even have train reservations, but did great. It just depends on what you want. We were pretty much scared to go to Turkey on our own, but felt very safe travelling in Italy and France.<BR><BR>

We are Australians and have done several Tours in various parts of Europe over the past few years. Primarily for the reassurance of having someone else doing the organising and driving - and all of which we have enjoyed immensely.<BR>This year we decided to 'wing it' and happened to be in Canada on Sep 11 - how I wished for a Tour Director as I battled with airlines and hotels for the rest of our severely disrupted trip.

I think it's very difficult to generalize about cruises and tours. We're all looking for different things when we travel. I've done independent travel as well as cruise in Europe. No land tours, except for a couple of day tours out of London and Florence which we felt was more time and cost effective. Astral's tours in London in small buses and CAF's tours in Florence are a nice change of pace.<BR><BR>1) We avoid cruises that go to places we wished to explore at length such as Rome and Venice. When our ship docked in LeHavre, we took the inexpensive one hour train ride to Rouen instead of taking the $180 tour to Paris. Paris needs at least a week!!!<BR><BR>2) We chose cruises that had many ports which piqued our interest. We intend to return to some places for a longer visit, ex. Rhodes, Ireland and Scotland. Good thing we did Amsterdam on a cruise: we will never return.<BR><BR>3) Balconies on port-intense Europe cruises are not a priority. As someone else here said, we also prefer to spend the money getting around in port.<BR>However, on a Caribbean cruise with several days at sea, we have booked a balcony and not regretted a penny.<BR><BR>4) We enjoy the elegance of evenings on a cruise something we miss during independent travel. On our own, we eat a great meal at lunch but limit ourselves to local deli and cheese with wine in the evenings. We enjoy both and it's nice to have the variety.<BR><BR><BR>To each their own.<BR><BR><BR><BR>

May I just put in a plug here for the Asia board? A couple of people mentioned that if they ever planned a trip to China, they might do THAT one with a tour, but that they would never consider one in Europe.<BR><BR>I'm an American who has been living in China for 3 years, and I assure you that you CAN do independant travel in Asia ALMOST as easily as you can in Western Europe. Just come visit us on the Asia board &amp; we'll be glad to help!

<BR>Well, Andrea, you just took the wind out of my sails. I was just going to say that I went on a tour to China, and I wouldn't recommend one visit China any other way, as it is just too difficult. I guess I better toddle on over to the Asia board.

Okay--here's my question. We have always gone independently and cheaply. We've visited Romania and the Czech Republic on our own and did fine, so we're not particularly timid or fussy. But, the one place we've thought of going with a group is Russia. Has anyone done one of the river cruises that go between Moscow and St. Petersburg? I've gotten brochures from some companies and some of the organized activities turn me way off. We are not interested in typical cruise things like costume parties, game afternoon etc. I am much more interested in learning about the culture, history, foods and people. I am afraid that we would be absolutely miserable stuck on a boat that was catering to a bunch of people who are interested in such activities, and yet I am still somewhat apprehensive about tackling this destination on our own. Any comments?