As you don't have to decide today, you have time to take this test. Get on a bus tour of your home town with your daughter. Do the whole thing at the pace set by the guide. Then sit down in your living room and decide whether you two enjoyed that experience. If you did, great...if you didn't then chances are you won't enjoy the longer version.

For advance reading i endorse ricksteves.com and www.bedgeteuropetravel.com where on the home page you can request their free European Planning & Rail Guide that has a wealth of info on not only trains but packing, etc. and itineraries, etc. It's oriented for on your own travel which IMO is easy in Europe and a rail trip is a great way to go.

I'm pretty sure you would not want to be on the same tour for 4-6 weeks (I'm not even sure they are available for that long, are they?).

That's quite a long trip. I'd think maybe a combination of an organized tour for a week here and there, combined with renting an apartment and staying put for a week here and there
:-)

Lots of good replies, thank you all so much. You've given me a lot to think about. I like the idea of us sitting down together and planning what we want to see. We have a lot of places we want to go and I know we may have to cut some out. I always knew she wanted to go to Paris (shopping and fashion you know, she wants to be a fashion designer) I've always wanted to see Scotland and Ireland. I've been to London and would love to take her there, but it's not a top priority to have to spend a lot of time there. Recently she threw Italy into the mix. I have to admit that the only thing that scares me about the DIY way is planning the transportation as I'll have to plan to get from one place to the other and then getting around in each location. I don't think I want to rent a car, I'd rather us public transportation. Thanks again for all the comments and advice, I'm we'll be talking some more.

I always use only public transportation - trains, taxis, bus, metro, etc. I have never rented a car in Europe (5 trips, some solo). If you keep the trip relatively simple, it's really not all that complicated. If your schedule is flexible you can wait until you are in Europe and simply buy point-to-point train tickets as you're ready to travel. For longer stretches you might want to mix in the budget European airlines too. Your daughter is old enough to take some of the responsibilities. Maybe each of you can take turns planning different cities (finding hotels, activities, etc.).

Everyone else has already said the pros and cons or DIY and tours and given good suggestions. Personally I love to plan trips and for me that is half the fun. I have also done some wonderful tours and made some great friends on them.

I would like to post a little gripe about comments about being "stuck with 80 year olds." I see variations of this comment frequently. I know a lot of 80 year olds who can physically leave people half their age in the dust and mentally can contribute much to any group. Think of all that experience they have to share!

I have met some wonderful "mature" folks on tours. Just like any group of people, there were many great folks and also some grumps. (One tour I was one in my 20's, the most miserable were three gals in their 20's, know as "the joyful ones" by some of us. I was lucky enough to be able to get in with a crowd of wonderful seniors.

I have been the driver for several mature folks on various trips. The ones I drove were all real sports, wonderful conversationalists, and just delightful people.

Just remember, if we are lucky enough, we too will be 80 and it will happen before we know it!

Irishface,

I completely agree with you. Some of the best travelers I've met have been the oldest -- they've been doing it for a long time and have great stories to tell.

On a recent tour, we called our oldest woman "the energizer bunny" because she could keep going long after us younger folks were tired out.

Larry,
We did our first Untours trip this year to Switzerland and were extremely satisfied. So much so that we are using them again to go to The Netherlands (Leiden) in 2008. Our apartment was on the second floor of a chalet in Kandersteg, and we lived like the locals for two weeks.

An Untours rep met us at the Zurich train station located below the airport and rode train with us to ensure that each Untourist got off at their correct town and that the landlord was to meet them. A small amount of food, enough to get us started was in each apartment.

They provided us with Hiking and Biking guide and their Dream Book that contains info for the area.
Two no cost local tours were also available to us. A trip to a cheesemaker, and a beutiful jodeling concert. An Untours reptraveled with us.

The Untours rep is also available anytime during the stay to provide information or advice.

We also have done Untours and if I had 6 weeks to spend in Europe, I would use them and pick 3 or 4 bases to travel from while there. You could see Germany, Italy, Spain, and they do Switzerland better than any other "tour" company. Check them out.

I have traveled with teenage girls and you may want to factor in the fact that tour groups usually leave the hotel at 8:00 am or earlier. My girls would have been miserable with that schedule.

then i must be a teenager at heart!

I wish my tour group would have left the hotel at 8:00 a.m., but our departure time was usually even earlier than that.

Now that I'm older and wiser, I travel independently b/c I value my sleep and relaxation when I'm on vacation. I don't think I could ever do a tour again b/c I'm just not a morning person and it was a real drag to get up at 5 am.

I have traveled with tours and also solo and have enjoyed both for different reasons.

Sometimes people on tours just fail to do any homework at all and leave it all to the guides to explain.

If you do end up going with a group, choose one that is not too busy so that you can use your free time as you choose. Do as much homework so you get the feel of knowing where you are and "recognizing" the area's sights.
You will find you enjoy it much more.

I think you two will get much more out of the trip if you plan it yourselves. Also much less expensive and better lodging and food choices. Don't be afraid.

Hi
I went with my daughter ( at the time aged 19) on a Cosmos 23 day tour of Europe. I had deliberated on whether to do on our own but all things considered preferred the support of the tour group which meant that I had no stress in case anything went wrong e,g what if I fell sick or have a fall - she would then have all the stress of having to attend to mum. Also when we were on the tour she went out with people her age group and I felt completely relaxed. I also felt it was much safer. The downside was being herded but we didnt mind. She prefers now to do trips on her own.

Thank you, ronkala and Pammyjo, for your thoughts on Untours. Margie and I have always planned our own trips, so far. But we're planning on spending longer periods in one place when we travel, and the thought of allowing someone else to handle the travel and accommodations details has a certain appeal. Having someone else vet the apartment would leave more time for planning the more substantive parts of the trip.

I reported on our most recent trip at:

"Trip Report: 3 weeks in Bonnieux (Provence)"
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35087107

- Larry

Redroses,

My experience and opinions: I've never done a tour or a cruise because I know that I'm not that type of person. That said, there are places and countries where I would not go unless it was with a tour.

Europe is easy to travel independently. I've planned 4 trips with the wonderful help of this board. 1 to France - where I had never been before, didn't speak French, and drove a rental car through the Loire Valley solo for the first 4 days with no problems. 3 trips to Italy, the most recent solo.

I would equate the difference of tour vs. independent travel to my experience traveling with friends vs. solo. My solo trip was so relaxing! I got to do whatever I wanted, when I wanted and didn't have to worry about others' needs, timetables, anxieties or personal quirks.

I realized, during the final week, that I was getting so much more out of the trip because I was more approachable and more interesting to the local people as a solo traveler. I also was far more observant to absolutely everything because I wasn't busy talking and relating to my travel companions (which you will have plenty of on a tour).

With 4 years to plan - do it on your own. It will be a much richer experience for you both!

Larry,
Untours in Switzerland included two week rail passes, in Leiden it includes eight day rail and tram passes. Other countries it includes a car. Untours has a couple of different plans so you can split your locations or extend them.

This summer was the first time we did an organized tour (of Italy). My kids absolutely loved the fact there were other kids to hang out with and they were not with their parents 24/7.

Many times people who knock tours have never been on them!!! (I would put myself in that category before we went, which goes to show you that you shouldn't knock something you haven't tried).

That being said, a 4 to 6 week trip would not be best as a tour (I have seen them as long as 4 weeks but personally I wouldn't do it). The best solution to me is either
(1) independent travel with day
tours in each city
(2) Maybe a 1 week bus tour of one country and the other time on your own.

Travelling in the summer with a tour group you won't be with 80 year olds, there will be a variety of people, some with kids (and quite a few teachers).

The biggest downside with tours is with the cheaper tours you stay outside the city.

Good luck, and Rick Steves tours do look like fun

<<I also was far more observant to absolutely everything because I wasn't busy talking and relating to my travel companions (which you will have plenty of on a tour).>>

But you'd miss hearing the experiences and viewpoints of other people. I've done a lot of independent travel and a few tours and have enjoyed being with like-minded people and have always learned something from them. On one trip to Italy I spent one week alone and two weeks with a tour that focused on art and met several well-traveled people who gave me ideas for future travel sites. One raved about Morocco and I went a few months later and loved it -- it was one of the most adventurous and interesting trips I'd ever taken.

Tours can be for a few people to several. As one other poster wrote, your daughter (and you) might enjoy the company of others, at least for part of the time.

I think a blend of independent travel and tours might be the answer for you, especially since you don't want to drive. Four to six weeks of togetherness can be a lot for anyone.

I have a friend who took the Rick Steves tour (24 people) in Italy and loved it. You could do something like that and then spend time on your own traveling by train, or by rental car if you change your mind about driving.