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Tour de France winner Floyd Landis fails drug test

Tour de France winner Floyd Landis fails drug test

Jul 27th, 2006, 10:01 AM
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to add - i distinctly remember on NPR Frankie himself saying he testified to that and that he had nothing against Lance, who was a friend. Maybe i was wrong - what difference does it make now as apparently most major bikers take them - to wit the several stars recently suspended at the start of the Tour.
PalQ is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 10:06 AM
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Speculation that Landis had tested positive spread earlier Thursday after he failed to show up for a one-day race in Denmark on Thursday. A day earlier, he missed a scheduled event in the Netherlands.

On the eve of the Tour's start, nine riders - including pre-race favorites Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso - were ousted, implicated in a Spanish doping investigation.
PalQ is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 10:15 AM
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To get back to Landis, I read on salon.com that he has a reputation as a clean rider. He has been getting legal cortisone shots because of his hip problem and the cortisone can boost testosterone levels and fool the test.

His Phonak team mates say that he missed the races in the Netherlands and Denmark because he is in Germany getting treatment for his hip.
Barbara is online now  
Jul 27th, 2006, 10:18 AM
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PalQ---as I understand it, Betsy testifed first, then Frankie was deposed later and said the same thing. But look at the question and answer:

<<Betsy Andreu testified that the doctor asked Armstrong whether he had ever taken doping products, and that the cyclist replied, "Yes."

"He asks which ones. And Lance replies, ''EPO, growth hormones, cortisone, steroids, testosterone,'"' Betsy Andreu said in sworn testimony in January.>>

The problem with this is that growth hormones, cortisone, steriods, etc. are not "doping products"---only EPO is. So the suppposed answer to the question makes no sense to anyone who has a clue, and strongly suggests to me that she made it up.

I agree there is a huge problem in cycling and all sports today. But as a cancer survivor and supporter of Lance's foundation, I've looked carefully at him, his accomplishments, and the allegations against him, and remain convinced that he didn't use banned substances to achieve his 7 Tour victories. I've even talked about this with my own oncologist, who happens to be an avid cyclist, and he agrees there is no evidence that he did it, and his remarkable achievement can be explained by his own physiological make-up. The man had to be superhuman just to survive the cancer. But his victories are a tribute not just to his strength, but also to his team---he couldn't have done what he did without them.

Nora_S is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 10:24 AM
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Even if Lance had taken to me it would in no way denigrate his amazing recovery and success - and i've read that the cancer thing maybe helped him as he radically revamped his training style and that could and not doping explain his rise. But back to my first statement even if he had, since it appears everyone else has too, at least the top guys, it would not lessen his amazing feat in the least in my mind. Having had my son falsely diagnosed with cancer last September makes me very sympathetic to Lance and you and all cancer survivors. Good luck.
PalQ is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 11:10 AM
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I hope that Barbara's explanation is correct. I would hate to seem him involved in this too.
enzian is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 11:35 AM
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So wait a minute. Cortisone can cause an increase in testosterone? And we know Landis was taking Cortisone?
Jul 27th, 2006, 11:36 AM
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Well it won't be long before the 2nd sample is tested and apparently this will be conclusive one way or the other.
PalQ is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 11:43 AM
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will an endocrinologist please jump in here and explain how certain medical conditions could explain the result?
LLindaC is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 11:56 AM
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Surprisingly, the authorities have taken into account natural fluctuations of hormone levels in setting the levels of a test.

Cycling is a very dirty sport - the strains on riders in the Tour are phenomenal, and riders will do anything possible to try and live with those stresses. Unfortunately, over the past few years that has included taking large numbers of "performance enhancers".

Testosterone above naturally occuring levels is considered a performance enhancer, and if you have unnaturally high levels , then you are banned.

The rules can be very harsh- consider the skier who lost his medal in the 2002 Winter olympics for taking a miniscule amount of substance found in a "Vicks Nasal Spray".
willit is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 12:08 PM
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Increased testosterone levels can be seen with certain neoplasms, also.

Here's a link that helps explain the effects of steroids on testosterone levels:

Dukey is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 12:39 PM
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Landis was allowed to have a cortisone injection for his hip before the race began.
Underhill is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 01:10 PM
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Just in on NPR - "the second sample test rarely shows any difference over the first sample" says an expert.
PalQ is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 01:19 PM
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Perhaps it would be most prudent to just wait for the 2nd test ??
SAnParis is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 01:27 PM
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It seems that it's not the result of the second test that is crucial, but determining whether or not the increase in testosterone was caused by the legal cortisone shot.
Barbara is online now  
Jul 27th, 2006, 01:46 PM
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Here's a link to an article on CNN/Sports Iilustrated

Barbara is online now  
Jul 27th, 2006, 08:47 PM
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I wonder how they determine what is a "natural level" of testosterone with respect to Landis' "superhuman" Stage 17 performance.

My info is that "active" testosterone levels in the blood take some time to reach equilibrium before they can be quantified accurately.

Weren't Basso et al caught up in autotransfusion of some kind?
metlc is offline  
Jul 27th, 2006, 09:40 PM
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What's interesting about the Landis case and his particular situation is that he was taking both authorized cortisone shots for his hip and medicine for hypothyroidism-although it is unlikely that either one or in combination could have caused the intense spike in testosterone that his failed drug test apparently showed, his doctors are checking to see if this is the reason for the spike.

What I'm thinking is that perhaps Landis did use a testosterone enhancer, thinking that the other drugs in his system would mask the testosterone-and of course, the information about how to mask the doping would be readily available to him in this context. His sudden Stage 17 enhanced performance is suspicious now, in light of the test.

People would never believe the type of industry that is going on out there to "mask" illegal drug use-it's amazing-really.

And I've had occasion to deal with people who will go to their grave denying that they ever took any illegal drugs, but after testing positive, they were found to be doing things like cutting their hair and dying it (which is a known masking ploy) in an effort to defeat any follow-up tests.

As sophisticated as the doping tests now are, the industry that has grown up to mask doping keeps pace-as a result, some athletes have gotten lucky, but most have not.
Girlspytravel is offline  
Jul 28th, 2006, 07:15 AM
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As expected, the French newspapers are today screaming about Landis-"Landis's Fault" in the headline of L'Equipe. Apparently the cycling world is quite disgusted by this preliminary finding. If Landis is disqualified, he will be the very first Tour winner ever to earn that dubious distinction.
Girlspytravel is offline  
Jul 28th, 2006, 07:24 AM
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That's really the ULTIMATE "problem" with these situations regardless of the test results...there will always be that suspicion which lingers long, long after the situations have supposedly been resolved.
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