too busy? Britain
 

We are going to GB from Australia in Sept for 4 weeks and have a very full itinerary planned.
Is this possible? We have hired a Wicked van and will stay most nights at caravan parks.
Day 1, 2, 3 London (hotel)
Day 4,5 eurostar to Paris , 2 nights (hotel)
Day 6 pick up hire van in London, visit Oxford & Blenheim on the way to Lacock.
Day 7, 8 catch up with friends and sights around bath (stonehenge, avebury, Salisbury, Stourhouse gardens, Bath)
Day 9 travel through Becons Beacon to west coast of Wales
Day 10 travel to Ireland from Fishguard
Day 11 travel to Kerry to Limerick, through cork
Day 12, cliffs of Moher, Galway, Burrens stay at Blaney
Day 13 travel to giants causeway, county down to Dublin
Day 14 ferry to Wales, stay at Caenarvon, go on steam train ride
Day 15, 16 Caenavon to Manchester
Day 17 travel through Lakes District to Ayr
Day 18 travel to Oban, Loch Lomond to Inverness (stay at B&B)
Day 19 travel to Stirling then Inverkeithing (stay at B&B)
Day 20, 21 travel through Edinburgh to stay at Crook near Durham
Day 22 travel through York to Saxmundham
Day 23 travel to Dover & Hastings, back to London to drop off hire car and fly home.
We are used to big trips in Australia.

You asked if your itinerary was possible. Short answer: No.

to historytraveller Ouch. Oh well we'll just to make do as best as possible. Thanks for taking the time to read and reply

what is the go with tolls and toll passes for England?

You asked if your itinerary was possible. Short answer: Yes.


The longer answer is far too long to bother writing. Use a tool like viamichelin to time your journeys, that journey times in a congested, attraction-packed real country aren't the same as crossing a boring mass of desert, that you're visiting places, not roads and that it takes considerable time to get from a motorway to a car park with free spaces and on to the cathedral, gardens or cliffs.

As far as you're concerned, there are no tolls worth bothering about in Britain. Pay cash to cross the Severn Bridge, understand whether the London congestion charge applies to you (it probably doesn't, but see http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cong...g/default.aspx) and that's about it.

BUT: understand how the M50 toll system works in Ireland. Just google

I would strongly urge you to visit www.theaa.com route planner for milage distances and approximate times, being aware that you'll need to add about 20/30% to the times given. It's not so much "making do as best possible" but about allowing enough time to actually see/experience a place. Your current itinerary is simply a drive by/through. Tolls should be the least of your concerns. Sorry to be so brutal, but I am concerned about a problematic itinerary.

I seldom disagree with flanneruk, but parts of your itinerary need rethinking IMO. On day 17 you have Ayr to Inverness via Loch Lomond and Oban ( actually you pass Loch Lomond enroute to Oban). Assuming you are in northern Ayr ( very close to Glasgow) it'd take about six hours to do that route, minimum. That's without stops. Day 23 from Saxmundham to Dover, plus Hastings and back to London? What exactly do you expect to see? If merely driving by these places is your only concern, then, yes, it might just be possible. If, however, you plan on visiting any sites, it's simply not feasible.

I'm no expert on Irleand, but you have day 12 in the Burrens and 24 hours later (via Northern Ireland and the Causeway ) you end up in Dublin. Blimey!

"We are used to big trips in Australia. "

where you turn the radio & cruise control on and your brain off for several hours. You can't do that in the UK where you are driving in densely populated areas - think driving in rush hour but for several hours a day.

Also do you have permission to take the van out of the Great Britain?

My advice - dump the Ireland or Scotland leg of your trip, possibly both.

I've done my fair share of crazy road trips (and I LOVE road trips), lived in Australia for 10 years, and have traveled around GB and Ireland a bit so hopefully can give you a bit of perspective on this.

You have four weeks (really 3.5 though) which is fantastic, and are going in September which is also fantastic. Good start. Asking if it's too busy is also a good start as you probably already know it really is but are looking for some direction on where to compromise.

Are you planning on day six to travel from Paris to London, pick up the van, stop by Oxford and Blenheim and make it to Lacock for the night? I'm not sure that is possible or advisable. Is Paris a *must do*?

You're essentially trying to do 6 countries (England, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland and France) in 3.5 weeks. Granted the driving distances aren't what they would be in Australia but the concentration of interesting things to do and see are substantially more so.

You could easily concentrate on England, Ireland and Wales and have way more to do in your allotted time then would be possible, without spending so much time in your van (wicked as it may be).

I think also that a bit more information on what you're hoping to see/do on this trip would be helpful.

Heather

Day 17 travel through Lakes District to Ayr

Even if you travel straight up the motorway, rather than detouring through the Lake District, then Google maps says this will take over 4 hours..... and it will probably be a bit longer.

Day 18 travel to Oban, Loch Lomond to Inverness

Very very long tiring and stressful day and you won't have much chance to stop and see anything...

Really suggest that you cut down on destinations here and yes please chack if you can take the van to Ireland many rental places won't let you take it outwith the UK....

PS Showed your itinerary to my Aussie bf who lives with me in Glasgow, his comment was FFS!

The route is possible but insane.

Cut it down by cutting down the time in London, cut out Paris and/or cut out the trip so far north in Scotland.

A good route for 3 weeks would be London, Oxford, Cotswolds, South Wales, Southern Ireland, Northern Island, Stranraer, Scottish borders plus Edinburgh, York and straight to London.

BTW usually ost of the driving north of Birmingham and away from Manchester/Leeds is usually very easy and average speeds could be well over 70 mph. The majority of non goods traffic on UK motorways travels at 75 - 80 mph.

Day 6
Does this day start in Paris? If so -- you're plan is Paris to London to Oxford to Blenheim to Lacock in one day?

We visited Lacock and while it is a lovely little village it probably won't be the only lovely little village you'll see in your 4 weeks. We were also surprised that almost everything closed by about 5 pm.

I don't think it's possible to catch a train to London, pick up a car, visit Oxford and Blenheim and then still make it to Lacock before it closes for the evening.

I admire your ambition and I hope that you take all of the advice as well intentioned!

Well I'm Australian so I'll chime in here. All you will do is leap out of the car for a few seconds to look at the things you want to see and then leap back into the car and race to the next destination. Oh wait, there's a tv show that sounds like that!!

Seriously you need to dump 1/2 of the stuff you are planning on seeing and then you'll have some chance of enjoying the things you do see.

I know that it's tempting to see as much as possible when you have travelled so far to get to Europe but you plan is not a good one. I can't believe I'm saying this but I would probably drop Paris and save it for your next trip.

Have you checked on the availability of caravan parks? I know we have lots of them in Australia but I don't know if they are as popular in Britain.

I hope you will be sensible and listen to those travellers who are just trying to be helpful.

"Have you checked on the availability of caravan parks? I know we have lots of them in Australia but I don't know if they are as popular in Britain"

Is a very good point. I have never camped but spend a lot of time in camping areas. Last summer was "stay at home summer" in the UK. This year should be no different. Some areas could be very busy.

Quick tip - allow for an average of 35mph, even on days involving motorway driving.

Aussies and Californians and Texans think nothing of driving 100 miles for a good lunch. In the UK and Ireland 100 miles can be a <u>FULL</u> days drive if there are any stops/sightseeing. The very tiniest castle takes about an hour when you count driving in from the main road, exploring and getting back on route. And anything big/major will take 3-4 hours. So when you plug in that 35mph cathies mentioned (you'll average a bit less in Ireland, maybe a bit more in parts of England/Scotland)- you can see your plan is certifiably crazy.

There is still an awful lot being said about the time taken to drive around the UK and the same extremely misleading advice is being given out.

I spend my whole life driving in the area between Edinburgh and Birmingham. I will readily accept that south of Birmingham is a different country when it comes to traffic but most of the roads in the north of England and southern Scotland are pretty clear and make it very easy to achieve at least the national speed limit.

With fuel at record levels there were very few traffic jams in the usual suspect areas of the M6, M1, M74 etc over Easter and I see this summer being no different. Five years ago, queues of 20 miles on a Sunday evening on the M6 were the norm. People are simply not travelling as much due to the cost of fuel (£1.40 a litre).

Taking a full day to travel 100 miles in the UK is beyond anything I can comprehend on a road trip. You can, of course, take 3 weeks to travel 100 miles but in absolutely no way do the nature of the roads or amount of traffic prevent you from travelling an average of 60 miles an hour when combining motorway and A road travel.

Caroline - does your 35 include sight seeing stops?

Driving small cars is always hard work and I do feel the need to stop at least every 200 miles. Large cars/vans are a different proposition.

Is it worth defining a road trip?

Usually we would : do a large amount of driving over a 2 to 3 week period with the intention of travelling between areas of particular interest. Thrown in 2 day stops at each place of interest. ie not stop at every castle, museum, pub and teashop on the way between stops.

In that context 150 - 300 miles a day poses absolutely no issue in the UK north of Birmingham.

This isn't based on the odd trip to the UK over bank holiday weekends. This is based on 60,000 miles a year and on some days 500 miles a day.

Trying to imply that whole of the UK is one big traffic jam or that the roads are cart tracks is simply misleading.

But how often you were going from A to B but stopping for a couple of hours at C, D & E. I have a regular route of 100 miles in the north of England / south of Scotland and I know it will take 2 hours of non-stop driving. There are bits of it that if I time it wrong then I will be stuck in traffic for a least 30 minutes whilst doing less than 20 miles. Even if I go a few miles off route to visit somewhere for 30 minutes then I know that I will add nearly an hour to my driving time. And all this is in a car that is reasonably powerful, where I know where I can speed and where I can overtake. I've also done this 100 mile route in a van - once empty, once full. In both cases it took nearly 3 hours to do the same route because I couldn't overtake, I couldn't speed therefore spent more time behind trilby wearers in their Kias that I would otherwise.

alan

Never.

I am well aware of this meandering approach to travel. My wife is a leading exponent. There are some bloody devious devils around who find joy in siting businesses just off motorways. Garden centres are the biggest offenders. I seem to have been pushed off course to visit every bloody garden centre between Walsall and the Gorbals. Even worse if they have a coffee shop or Laura Ashley franchise.

When I get hold of the wheel, the alphabet proceeds no further than B.

That's the trade off in marriage. Upside is that you get your Christmas cards sent out for you on time. Downside is garden centres and putting your socks aways.