xxx

<BR>C'mon, at least Karen's being honest. I seriously doubt that everyone who has posted their replies have children that don't misbehave on flights or who cut it out the very first time they're told . . . or when their leg is smacked or popped, they start screaming. <BR> <BR>I too believe you should control your child on a flight and agree that some people don't try. But I don't see anything wrong with a person getting up and stretching their legs every hour or so on a long flight, as long as they don't touch others or grab their seats, whether it's a child or adult.

Kids

Blame the "time out" parents ...not the kids! <BR> <BR>You incompetent, new age, time out parents need to realize that I am not amused when you allow little Johnny or little Suzi to run up and down the aisles of the plane or kick the back of my seat for the duration of the trip. <BR> <BR>This is not entertainment, it is not amusing and it is rude behaviour. <BR> <BR>And if you cannot get little Johnny to behave I will! <BR> <BR>Do you want to gain control or do you want me to be rude to your obnixious little brat? <BR> <BR>Little children crying is another issue that quite frankly cannot be helped, but these out of control brats can be controlled ...so do it!

some consideration

Last time I flew cross country, the boy behind me was kicking my seat repeatedly. The parents behind me didn't seem to notice or try to stop the behavior, which irritated me the most.

dan woodlief

Art, I like your style. That is the way I do it. I don't agree that telling a child ten times is always going to work. Kids are all different, but in some ways kids are kids too. When my child doesn't do as told, I do get physical. I make her do it, as simple as that. I will never spank her (no way I could do that), but I will help her do what is expected just as Art said. For example, she often likes to put her feet on the the back of the front seat of my car (when in her child's seat in the rear). Usually she takes them down when asked, but if she doesn't I just hold them with one hand and drive with the other until she stops trying to put them up. Maybe that is good airplane training. What bothers me on this whole issue of children and travel is that too few people are in the middle on the issue. I think the ones who seem obsessed with children on planes and in other places (with a few exceptions of course) have their priorities way out of whack just as much as the parents who let their kids do whatever they want without consideration for those around them. I bet a lot of those people are the same ones who use the emergency lane to cut around me when caught in a traffic jam. People with and without children have rights. Let's just try to remember that. Try to put yourself in the other person's shoes for a while.

Buyer

Well come on now... if Karen is as bad a parent as she appears to be from the tone of her postings, rude, vindictive, sort of a "my rights above all others" , "My little Jr. Can do no wrong, and is THE most important person in the world, who's wants and needs are FAR more imporant then the rest of you" <BR>We really should wish her well, she is in for a RUDE awakening! I kinda hope she is on the same airline as me so that I can watch her kid freak out... all over her.. oh and it just gets better with age! This is comedy people,with a healthy dose of karma!

Karma

BuyerBeware shoes his/her colors on these types of threads. I hope he/she is on the same plane, preferrably in the seat in front of Karen and her progeny. Maybe there will be a little turbulence, making junior a little queasy, and maybe junior will heave all over Buyer Beware's reclined head.

Giulio

Looks to me that <BR>[email protected] is an instigater and likes to argue. <BR> <BR>You have done the same thing with me on another post. <BR> <BR>Here you have exaggerated everything Karen said. <BR>I seriously doubt she really meant 100 times, <BR>I would have said probably the same instead of really meaning to repeat myself and say 2 or 3 times. <BR> <BR>I think she wrote clearly that her kid doesn't kick the seat for play. She said her kid was a size and tried to explain the situation. <BR>When my child was that age, I had the same problem, she was not doing anything on purpose to bother the one in front. She just reached with her toes and that position and any tiny movement you feel in front is disturbing (it is the same movement you feel everytime someone takes out and puts in a magazine). <BR> <BR>I myself have never seen anyone let their child go hog wild. <BR>I was always lucky to recieve compliments on my travels and think most people do. <BR>Just always keep in mind every child is different and so are the parents. <BR>Also, not every kid will grow up to be like their mom, some will be like their dad, as mine will. <BR>

@@@@@@@@@

Giulio- You are indeed lucky. I have seen people let their little darlings go hog wild, and I think I have already sat in front of Karen and her monster.

Millie

To@@@@@@@@@@ <BR> <BR>You are a monster and I should say worse. <BR>Don't pick on those that can't take up for themselves.

Kelly

I've been reading many of these anti-children, baby-hating threads lately on this forum and others. What strikes me as odd is how many people feel comfortable making a judgment about a child they have never met (i.e. telling another parent they would not want to be on a flight with their child solely because the child is 2 years old). It's as if we are talking about pets and not HUMAN BEINGS--and yes, that's what children are!!! Are there any other groups of people who we would so comfortably and openly pass such prejudice statements on? Imagine how ridiculous as to want a separate section on a plane for French people because they all smell? Or for Black people because they all steal? Or for Italian people because they're all too loud? No, I'm not a parent but I am a teacher and one thing I know is that no two children are alike. Yes, some kids are poorly behaved. Most kids, however, are absolute delights to be around. Also, even terrific kids can have a bad day--doesn't always mean their parents are monsters. And, maybe it would help if we remembered that none of us emerged from our mother's wombs as full-grown adults with perfect social skills--and that doesn't mean we should have been locked in the house until our 18th birthdays. I don't think we should make parents feel ashamed for trying to spend time with their kids, enrich their kids, and show them the world. From my perspective, those are the kids I want in my classroom and in my society--even if it means I have to sit next to that child on an airplane when they are young.

Iagree

Oh so nicely put, Kelly. <BR>I was really happy to see my post had been picked up by someone else and reposted. <BR> <BR>However, I just want to point out that I originally made this statement because I had read another post (from where this post came) and it made me so mad to hear all the complaining about kids on flights. <BR>I try to do everything possible to keep my kid entertained, but it is not easy. <BR>Anyway, I wrote this to say that for those that don't like flying with us, don't complain to me, just complain to the airline and get something done. <BR>I don't want them near me either if they can't take a kid being a kid (not a monster). <BR>It doesn't bother me if the airlines did keep us altogether, maybe then the kids could entertain each other. <BR>I also thought to let people know that I always ask for the bulk seats (and never get them) just because a 9 hour flight is hard enough. <BR>I wouldn't have to worry about someone in front being bothered and my kid could get down on the floor in front of me and not in the aisle to play or just to stand up and stretch his feet. <BR>I fly a lot, and I have been blessed with a great kid, and have been lucky to be complimented on every flight. I am just trying to think of things that would make it easier. <BR> <BR>I see from staying back and watching people post, there are way to many people here waiting to attack. <BR>Seems no one can have an idea or opinion without being attacked. <BR>How sad. <BR> <BR>Can't we just post our opinion and not attack the one in front? Then leave it up to others reading to agree with who they want. <BR>

had-a-brat-kicking MY seat

@ <BR>Once upon a time planes had a smoking section. Maybe it's time to create a children's section? <BR> <BR>

xxx

This thread started out with a posting borrowed from an earlier thread, so here's another one. It was posted a few days ago on another thread too, but it seems to apply here. <BR> <BR>Author: Baby ([email protected]) <BR>Date: 8/23/2001, 2:44 pm ET <BR> <BR>Message: <BR> <BR>As a baby, I couldn't agree more with the idea that there ought to be separate seating areas on planes for us. In fact, I would feel a lot safer if there were actually separate planes. <BR> <BR>Let's examine the track record of both babies and adults... <BR> <BR>BABIES have been known to: <BR> <BR>1) cry and have tantrums <BR> <BR>2) get sick <BR> <BR>3) have smelly diapers <BR> <BR>4) kick the seats <BR> <BR> <BR>ADULTS have been known to: <BR> <BR>1) swear and have tantrums <BR> <BR>2) get drunk and then get sick <BR> <BR>3) have smelly BO <BR> <BR>4) have sex in the seats <BR> <BR>5) get in fist fights <BR> <BR>6) exhibit air rage that forces the plane to turn around <BR> <BR>7) hijack planes <BR> <BR>8) take guns and bombs on planes <BR> <BR>9) kill people <BR> <BR> <BR>Geez, I hate to discriminate against all you adults, but you have to admit your track record looks pretty bad. Some of you may protest that all the babies you fly with are always commenting on what well-behaved adults you are, and that you personally do not get drunk, have sex, or take bombs on planes, but I say your status as adults makes you suspect nevertheless. Boarding denied.

roger

ttt

mike

this is amazing.........my last flight to Paris I was squished by the over-sized lady in front of me the entire time. Should I have asked for a skinny person section...????? Should I complain???????????Come on...get real. If you want to travel with everything your way, well, get your own private jet. Or try a 1st class ticket, there is more room.....Otherwise stop whining like a 2 year old baby who buge those around him on international flights.... <BR>I am travelling to Paris again in a week, with 3 kids.....They will be behaved, I will make sure, but there might be a few minutes of collateral damage while I discipline them, ie...crying, shouting, trips to the restroom for private talk.....You child haters need to get a grip....I am not a fat person hater, I just deal with it...

anon

wow, this is the best reason for birth control I have ever read.<BR><BR>even better than babysitting someone's kids for a few days...

ttt

tip-top

Keith

I wouldn't take my baby on a long haul flight for one reason - she would drive ME crazy!<BR><BR>That said I'm really amazed at some of the comments here. Firstly, remember that toddlers under 2 by and large are not given their own seats - this means they have to sit on their parents' laps. Unless the airlines allow parents to sit at the bulkheads, then there simply isn't enough room to accomodate both so - unfortunately - the person in front is likely to be the one to get it in the back (I have been that person.)<BR><BR>Secondly, where's the problem in letting your two year old walk up and down the aisles if he wants to? He's not exactly going to get out, is he?!?! If the child misbehaves - and it does happen - then you sit him down again.<BR><BR>The comments on the first posting are good and sensible. Read them.

Mahmah

Keith Keith Keith -- you aren't going to help the cause any if you let your two-year-old run up and down the aisles. Problems? Blocking the food/bev. carts, bumping into people in aisle seats, getting under the feet of people trying to get to restrooms. The place to let them run is in the gate area and, with close supervision, around the airport -- stay with them but TIRE THEM OUT before they get on the plane.<BR><BR>And under NO circumstances should any child of any age ride in parents' laps -- penny wise and child-foolish. They need their own seat. <BR><BR>THAT said, for those of us with no choice but to travel w/kids, the bulkhead seat makes a big difference and it's truly cross-eyed stupid that airlines seem to think they'll make better friends with passengers if they put high-mileage bigshots instead of families. (They SAY they save them for families or handicapped travelers, but in my experience they save them for last-minute high-rollers and the families get put all over the place elsewhere.)<BR><BR>

sky goddess

Okay Karen-the bottom line is why do you have to fly when your child is so young? Is the child flying free on your lap?Its one thing to go on an occasional vacation but "across the Atlantic" several times in several months?Thats really brutal for most kids! To those of us who have children,we all understand how difficult it is to fly when they are young............however,a really good parent not only has food/snacks,changes of clothing,extra diapers,books,toysand favorite blankie along but gives the child liquid tylenol or liquiprin before a long flight.<BR>There really isn't enough room for your youngster to be walking around on a flight-its bad enough asking the adults to move.Seriously,this new generation of parents all feel that we all love their children and that anything goes.NOT! Good manners/ discipline and appropriate conduct whatever the age never go out of date!Just do not have a bloody mary and let your kids go wild like alot of the moms I have had on flights do!