To Cinque Terre or not to Cinque Terre ..? The big question!
 

Hi all Italian Fodorites!

I have a question loaded with indecision on many fronts! I will be in Antibes from July 12 to 17, arriving from San Sebastian and departing to (at this stage) the Cinque Terre.

This seems like a lot of beach time for someone who comes from the beautiful Australian coast … But there are reasons for this. Namely, San Sebastian is about food, fun, walking and lounging and it will be stop number two on our trip after Barcelona.

Antibes is about seeing the Cote D'Azur, which looks like a lot of fun and unlike what we have here. And staying in Antibes we hope to be far enough away from the expense of Cannes and Monaco but close enough to go and see and enjoy the sights.

Cinque Terre is because it is surely a must do? And I want to do some hiking. And some wine sipping :)

I would love to see the alps as I do love the outdoors and we don't have mountains like those of France, Switzerland and Italy. So from the CT we plan to go to Verrana (after a detour to Venice) and while I realise this isn't the alps, I am told by an Italian colleague that the walks are truly beautiful here.

Soooo …. with all of that back story now told, I am wondering though if it will be too crowded to enjoy the CT? Is there somewhere nearby that is less crowded but equally beautiful and that would allow us to get from the Cote D'Azur easily and over to Venice, via Milan (I guess?) simply as well, as we don't want to spend endless days travelling . That is another reason for missing the alps on this trip.

We plan to have four nights in the CT. That's really giving us three days, as we will spend most of the day ahead of the first night travelling to get there, and then imagine we will leave on the morning after the fourth night.

Advice would be appreciated!

"Cinque Terre is because it is surely a must do?" It's certainly a pleasant part of Italy, but "must do"? Not IMO. It's been well marketed and Rick Steves is also massively guilty of bigging the place up to the extent that in mid to late July the area will be heaving with Americans all clutching a copy of his guide book.

You have the five villages connected by paths, which are unpredictable in their suitability for walking as they are very weather dependent. Some paths may be closed due to instability from the winter. In July they should be dry and OK, but much of the pleasure for me is taken away by the numbers of people.

The villages themselves are very nice too, but definitely not better than lots of places in Italy which are just as pretty. If you must go, then I also think that 4 nights there is a little too much. You can sip wine in lots of places.

I don't intend that this should come across as totally dissing the CT, as it's undoubtedly a pretty area, but I do think it's way over-hyped.

Thanks Rubicon. In some ways I would prefer CT to Cote A'Zur but then again the fun of Cannes etc is different to the reasons I like the idea of CT.

Perhaps we could go from Antibes to Venice, via Milan, then to the Como area and spend the four days we were going to do the CT in in Lucca instead before making our way to Rome. So that would be one night in Milan, two in Venice or Padua, five at Varenna, four in Lucca and four in Rome.

Check out Santa Margarita Ligure (SML) and the nearby Portofino - I know there is a walk that links the two that is pleasant (altho not quite as scenic as CT) and it probably also works better for you logistically. CT can get horribly crowded but there are walking options in the area besides the super-crowded main one.

I'd suggest adding days to Venice and taking at least one, maybe two away from Lucca. I like Lucca but Venice is much more worth the time. Going to the Lakes instead of the CT is a good idea too - plenty of lovely places to walk there.

Yes I have looked at Santa Margherita too, but won't this also be just as busy as CT?

What do you think of my other option (do Lucca) instead of more coasts?

Thanks suec1, we crossed messages. But we could go to Pisa (and the Tuscan coast) from Lucca so that may mean we'd need four nights?

You've already gotten some great advice. I agree - 4 days in the Cinque Terre is defintiely overkill -- give it at most 2 days unless you have a VERY specific interest in spending more time there.

There are just too many options, aren't there? but life is all about tough choices :). If it were my trip (I wish) I think I would do (after San Seb. and Cote D'Azur) Venice, an Italian Lake and on to Rome. This gives you a great variety of locales. But you could add in Lucca and do some daytrips out. We actually went from Lucca to the CT for a day trip but it was a bit much. In the end you'll have to decide what you will enjoy most - every poster here probably has a different opinion of the "perfect" trip.

The Cinque Terre, (and Liguria in general) is one of my favourite parts of the world, it really is stunning. Also if you are in the area, Santa Margherita, Camogli and Portofino are all equally as amazing :-) Enjoy your trip!

If you want to go hiking, consider the val d'Aosta or the Dolomiti instead at that time of year.

There are excellent hikiing trails between Nice and Menton, all above the Mediterranean Sea (views!) as well as in the whole hinterland (Sospello, Piene, Breil, Airole, etc.)

The hiking trails around Varenna are fine, just like all the others around and close to Lake Como, Lake Lugano, Lake Maggiore and Lake Orta.

If you don't fly from Nice to Venice (easyjet has direct flights for about 50 EUR), 5Terre lies more or less along the itinerary from Nice to Venice.

5Terre will be crowded in July. You will find almost no Europeans and no Italian tourists at all, but tons of people from overseas

Ok so perhaps we will stay an extra night in Antibes and then go to CT or Santa Margherita for two nights only and add an extra night to Venice/Padua. I will speak to my travelling buddy first as I am unsure of what her preference is to be honest. I really wanted to go to Dolomiti too (and Chamomix and Zermatt) but I think that will be for another trip all in itself ... I'd love to hike the Mont Blanc ... If I don't get swayed by cycling the Danube first ... But they are each their own separate posts for another trip!

This is my first Europe trip so small, short, easy day hikes combined with the 'tourist' sights are I guess easier.

I do know that it is often the places not all over the tourist guides though that are more magical than the obvious ones. I remember falling in love with a glacier hike that was off the beaten track near Whistler, Canada. It wasn't in any books but was the most amazing experience I'd ever had. It was also hard work so we didn't see many people. The Rockies, by contrast, were very beautiful but crowded and the many man made tracks filled with people just didn't have the same appeal.

I guess I would love to have a similar experience in Italy but am less sure of how to do that ..!

Thanks for all your help everyone :)

RT

I would join with bobthenavigator in suggesting the Dolomiti! Awesome scenery, variety of hikes and it will be the least crowded place on your trip. I would head there after Antibes and before Venice. Not really out of the way. Google some pictures of the Dolomiti. GO!

I love your enthusias Dayle! But it looks like a 12 hour trip, unless I fly but in that case I'd have to go to Venice first anyway ...

Oh correction. That was sandralist who first suggested the Dolomiti.

and RT, Whistler is in the Canadian Rockies and yest it's beautiful. Great skiing too. If you are talking crowds at Rocky Mtn Natl Park, I can understand although it's one of the few western US/Canada park I haven't visited (yet).

If you want to see the Alps, see the Italian Alps since you don't have those mountains in Oz.

Hi Dayle, I was mainly comparing the amazing hike I did at Lake Wedgemount near Whistler (so stunning, challenging and mentally stimulating the entire way - the terrain constantly changes) to other walks between Banff and Jasper. Funnily enough, Whistler is so man made and commercial as a town - beautiful but like Disnelyland in some ways! But this trek was the most natural thing in the world ... Banff was a joy as well. I loved Sulphur Mtn too. But so different to Wedgemount's hidden treasure. The funny part was about Sulphur was we saw about three other hikers the whole way up but when we got to the top it was teeming with tourists! They all took the gondola and missed the beauty of the hike. However I was happy it was there as this was less than a week after Wedgemount and I still couldn't walk downhill so jumped on the gondola myself!

Yes I am leaning towards Dolomiti! Perhaps Antibes, Venice, Dolomiti and Varenna (via Milan) and then Rome. Although this may still be too much for only 16 days, with at least four spent in transit for three-six hours each ..

I'm sorry but as a British Columbian I can't let this go. Dayle, Whistler is definitely not in the Rockies, it is in the Coast Mountains. There are many many miles and hours of driving between the two mountain ranges, they are on opposite sides of the province.

RT, I think for what you want the Dolomites will be perfect, if you thought the area around Banff was crowded your eyes would bug out at the crowds in CT especially at that time of year.

Enjoy your trip!

Haha, I did have a giggle about the Rockies interpretation but I do love that this fourm engages on so many levels and aspects of travel raincitygirl. Oh and I envy you where you live!

Thanks for the advice. Banff wasn't crazy crowded, it was just interesting to note that the places in the guide books aren't always the best …. but that's the beauty in the frustration of not knowing you'll find the secret place that is so much better until you venture away from the obvious ... :)

Yes it's a fun place this Forum.
This is a pretty great place to live alright but where you are from is not too bad either! ( in fact I am heading to Sydney at the end of the month)

But where you are going on this trip of yours is my all time favourite...Italy, I am always scheming on how quickly I can get back there for my next fix!

Oh and raincitygirl I did drive those many, many hours between Whistler and Banff and have to say it was one of the best experiences of my life. Not only do we not have mountains of that size here, nor do we have highways that large or lakes that go for entire regions … largesse of the best kind was to be found throughout BC and Alberta!

This will be my first time in Italy and I cannot wait … Australia is beautiful yes, just so far from everywhere! I am from the Victorian coast, not too far from our beautiful Great Ocean Road, so not Sydney. But Sydney is a tourist's delight for sure.

My husband is cycling in the Banff GranFondo in August so he will be making that long drive and then tackling those mountains on his bike. Glad you enjoyed it. Come back soon and this time go to Vancouver Island! ( I grew up there so am biased)

Oh, and yes we do have all that you described but you have all those glorious beaches which we do not.

Oh the Great Ocean Road is beautiful! I have a friend who lives in Warrnambool so I've seen your part of the country.

I used to live in Sydney, my husband is from there, so more of a catch up with friends visit that I am doing.

Italy is fabulous, I hope you enjoy it.

I did go to Vancouver Island! Loved, loved it. We camped on Denman Island for a night and I loved swimming out to a pontoon and enjoying the stunning natural beauty of it all. Unfortunately though this was where I learned the mistake of cramming too much into too little time. Two weeks to do Vancouver (awesome city), Vancouver Island, including the Inside Passage (we were the only people ever to do the boat trip up and back - suffice to say I did not organise this trip myself and I am no longer the partner of the person who did haha … I spent most of the second day asleep in a cabin on the boat) and then back to Vancouver (the greyhound bus was an experience in itself and it would have been cheaper to hire a car - again organisational skills) and then- this time with a car - on to Whistler before Lake Louise, Banff and Kelowna before driving back to Vancouver … it was harder because of all the summer road works, but I fell in love with your country the moment I arrived so none of it was too painful.

Then you have the best of both worlds - Australian heritage in your family and Canadian. I am two hours from Warrnambool … yes i am sure I will love Italy!

Holy cow! That was some marathon trip you did! Love Denman Island.

Yes buses on holidays can be dodgy..I once took the bus from Melbourne to Sydney...not fun. Then there was my train ride from Warrnambool to Melbourne where I got to ride up front in the engine (friend's husband worked for the railway and arranged it) and it was all really great until we hit a cow. An experience to remember!

Enjoy Italy. Remember to eat gelato often.

Argh! Yes raincitygirl, of course you are right. I had Banff in my head, where I have also skied.

How many hours does it take to drive from Vancouver to the Banff area? I have been wanting to do a camper van trip up there for so many years, but wow it!s expensive . Those Canadian taxes are painful.

Loved a trip to Tofino a few years ago. Vancouver Island is a great place. So big. We drove from Victoria all the way to Tofino. Gorgeous drive.

I love all mountains. Live in the Utah Wasatch and my first trip to Europe was a ski trip to the Dolomites. I hope to get back for a summer hiking trip there soon so RT I hope you will report back!

Buon viaggio!

Dayle it is about a nine or ten hour drive. We have never done it all in one day, usually stop for the night in Revelstoke or Sicamous. I love mountains too but the ocean is my first love. Come on up, your dollar is way stronger against ours now, that should offset some of our painful taxes! ;)

Ah the V/line travel experience … where Australia meets the third world! Just kidding, but it's not exactly up there with the Eurostar … And Melbourne to Sydney wouldn't be fun either, although my most interesting bus experiences were in Cambodia … :)

I hope I get to the Dolomiti area after all of this - will check with what my friend wants to do! FYI I can't remember how many hours it took to get from Vancouver to Banff, but we went via Whistler - if you love hiking you would love Wedgemount - and then from Whistler we took two days. And apart from stopping to pitch a tent and eat, we drove and drove and drove … stunning though which made it easier.

If you click my user Name, and scroll down, you'll find an excessively long Venetian trip report or three. We visited the Cinque Terre in May, 2014, a side trip from Venice, and stayed two nights. Extracted from said trip report:

Cinque Terre, left venice Tuesday 6th May, returned Thursday 8th. Pretty simple, train to Florence, train to La Spezia, and then a ten minute train ride to Riomaggiore, where we stayed for two nights.

We took a ferry ride from Riomaggiore to Monteresso Al Mare, and really enjoyed it. The ferry calls at four of the five towns (Corniglia does not have a harbour), and you can get a really good idea of the terrain when viewing it from the sea. The mountains seem to rise straight out of the Mediterranean, cut by very steep gullies and ridges. You can clearly see how the land has been terraced for horticulture and it is this terracing, some dating back a thousand years, which has made the cinque Terre as World Heritage site.

The towns themselves are quaint and fun to see, with their tiny harbours. The church in Vernazza is really worth visiting, very simple, massive stone columns and cut rough stone ribbing to the vaulting, a construction that I have not seen before.

But it is the horticulture that grabs me. The pure physical work that has gone into creating and maintaining the terraced plots - think a stone wall maybe one and a half metres hight, and a plot maybe two or three metres wide - and you can get an idea of how steep the hillsides are. Olives, grapes and many different vegetables - harvest must be back-breaking. The plots demonstrate a great deal of social cohesion, an undertaking that must have been shared by all the people working together, and many of the walls are several hundred metres long.

Each of the villages has a train station (Corniglia station being at least a couple of hundred metres below the town, great if you are going down the switchback set of steps), and the train trundles between all the villages, about every hour or so.

We trained back to Riomaggiore from Monteresso, and next day trained to Vernazza and walked to Corniglia along the coastal path. "Coastal path" might give one the impression of a beach stroll, but it is not exactly like that. The path is only 3.5 kilometres, but took us a full hour and a half, maybe a bit more. Much of the path is stepped, and climbs steeply out of Vernazza. Approaching Corniglia, the path runs through olive groves, and the views are spectacular.

Some will say that the Cinque Terre have been ruined by tourism. I did not see a lot of non-tourism activities, no shops selling ordinary stuff like electric drills or bags of cement. Maybe people go to La Spezia for those things. Many hikers, hiking poles, tanned, leathered complexions and leder-hosen (actually, no leder-hosen, I just made that up). A lot of American accents, and in the more popular times, the footpaths must be very crowded.

We ate twice at the same place - Vecin Muin on Via Colombo in Riomaggiore. Good food, local wine, and friendly service.

Train back to Venice, with a brief stop in Florence to visit the Central Market for truffle oil and fig mostarda. And at the flower shop opposite the station, we bought agretti seeds. It'll be fun to try those at home.

I did love the Cinque Terre on my visit - the villages are particularly pretty, especially from the sea. I love walking so it did tick all my boxes but I am not in a great rush to go back there.

Cinque Terre is not to be missed - the views from the trails are stunning, and it's one of my best ever experiences of annual European trips for over 25 years, and I'm not even a regular hiker type (Santa Maria Ligure and Portofino are lovely, but no match for the Cinque Terre experience). Some places are worth it even if full of other tourists, and this is definitely one. I agree that there's no need for 4 days there when so many places beckon, but less than 3 nights mean you're pinning your weather hopes on a single day . . . I'd go back in a heartbeat if it didn't mean I'd miss seeing some new place!

We were in San Sebastian last year, so I'll suggest you be sure to take the funicular up Monte Igueldo where there's a small old-fashioned amusement park, but from which the views of San Sebastian are lovely - from the amusement park, be sure to walk up steps to the Holiday Inn Hotel and have a drink on its outdoor terrace with spectacular views of both the San Sebastian horseshoe bay and long vistas of the coastline in both directions - quite incredible. We almost didn't bother, but it was great. Bilbao and its Guggenheim are an easy day trip by bus.

We've visited Antibes several times as a day trip from Nice, the local bus and train service along this section of the coast is frequent, easy and inexpensive. Take a bus to St. Paul de Vence, an art-filled, cobbled hill town well worth a look.

I envy you your first visit to Venice - what a great trip you have planned - enjoy!

I live on the beautiful Italian Riviera and I would miss it in favor of the Dolomiti, especially at that time of year.

Something you might check out is the Lufthansa flight from Nice airport to Munich (90 minutes), and from there a train to Bressanone (3.5 hours) or Bolzano (4 hours).

Personally, I would take the train to Bressanone and rent a car there and drive into the Alta Badia area of the Dolomiti, staying somewhere near Pedraces or Corvara. Do some hiking, and ultimately drive east across the Great Dolomites Road and drop down into Venice, lose the car.

If a car isn't what you want, you can take the train from Munich to Bolzano and work work your way across the Dolomiti and drop down to Venice via Belluno. Or you can just go not too far from Bolzano for hikes, but then take a train from Bolzano to Verona (90 minutes, then on to Venice).

You can also of course fly to Venice and do this the other way around after visiting Venice -- rent a car and drive up to the eastern Dolomiti, cross the range, drop off the car in Bolzano or Verona, take trains from their to Milan.

The Dolomiti is a uniquely stunning landscape. Thus far it rates for me to be Italy's greatest natural wonder (having seen Etna, the Amalfi and Capri, the Riviera, the major and minor lakes, the val d'Orcia and the Piano Grande).

PS: I should add that you can take public transportation from Venice to Belluno and on to Cortina d'Ampezzo, and then acrosss the Dolomiti to the west, exiting through Bolzano and down to Verona if you don't want to return to Venice.