Keh469

Hi! Planning ahead to take my 18 yr old (will be at time of travel) sons to Europe for their HS graduation in 2016. Hoping to hit London, Ireland, Germany (definitely Berlin - last time I was there, there was a wall!) and possibly Rome. We're planning for 3 weeks. We visited Alaska this summer and I got GrEAT tips using these forums and am hoping you all can help this time!!!
I don't want to have to drive, so info re: trains, ferries, hotels w/i walking distance to public transportation, etc would be awesome!
I can't say that $$ is no object, but I don't want to spend any needlessly/stupidly.
Any particularly neat places to visit, off the beaten track is ok too.
Any advice would be great!!!!

ribeirasacra

The best tip is not to move around so much. The less you change locations the more you will end up seeing.

Michael

three weeks = 21 days

London, Ireland, Germany, Rome--that may be too much for the time given; most if not all of a day will be lost traveling between the venues. Reduce it to three locations, perhaps London, Berlin and Rome.

colduphere

To state the obvious I don't know your boys. I know with ours there was a big difference between 16 and 18 year olds. They will be out later and perhaps by themselves.

Ours would say Rome was a lot of fun.

adrienne

In cities, all hotels are near public transportation, not only for tourists but for people who work there - they need to get to work.

You'd need to know where in Ireland you'll visit before any recommendations could be made but you can stop in the TIs and they will book a room for you for a small fee.

Ireland is not easy to visit using public transportation so you'll need to choose towns and then look for bus schedules to see if you have connections from one location to the next.

There are tons of "neat" places to visit but what I consider neat and what you and your sons consider neat could be substantially different. Please look at some guide books and decide at least the basics of what you want to see.

For train schedules check http://www.bahn.de/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml and seat61.com

jane1144

I, too, might save Ireland for another trip. Regardless of what you decide, be sure to fly "Open Jaw" called "multi city" by the airlines to avoid the costs, in money and time, of backtracking. For example, fly into London and home from Rome.

PalenQ

I don't want to have to drive, so info re: trains, ferries>

for lots of great info on planning a European rail trip I always spotlight these IMO superb sites: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free online European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of suggested rail itineraries in each country.

If traveling on several trains in different countries investigate the Eurail Saverpass which is valid on nearly all trains in countries covered.

bvlenci

In three weeks, I think you and your sons could have fun in London, Berlin, and Rome. You would have on average six days in each place, which would be enough time to fit in a few day trips. Ireland is a whole country, and unless you can narrow it down to one, or at most two, cities, I would leave it for another trip. Rural Ireland is really best visited with a car.

I would suggest flying between these cities, which are really too far apart to consider train travel. Then you could fly into your first city, and fly home from the last city. This is called a multi-city trip, and all the reservations sites, such as www.expedia.com , have this option. For the one-way inter-city flights in Europe, www.skyscanner.net is a good web site.

I generally use www.booking.com for finding hotels. They have a good hotel search function, which allows you to specify your destination as "centre of London" rather than just "London"; this weeds out the hotels in the boondocks. They also allow you to sort your list of hotels by price or by guest rating. Their ratings and reviews are reliable, because they're accepted from certified guests. Their "Manage my booking" facility shows you all your reservations on one page and allows you to make changes with a click or two.

Be aware of cancellation penalties; each hotel has its own cancellation policies, and many will give you a discount for a pay-in-advance nonrefundable reservation. I prefer to pay more for the flexibility to be able to change or cancel a reservation and pay when I check out.

It's really too early to book flights or hotels for 2016, but you can start planning what you really want to see. I would make sure your sons have plenty of input into this.

Once you've decided the basic bones of your trip, you can ask on the forums for more specific advice.

annhig

I was going to say Rome, Berlin and London.

Loads to see in all of them to interest teenage boys.

janisj

I'll pile on . . . London/Berlin/Rome.

If your whole trip is 21 days then you will only have 18.5 days 'on the ground'. You spend one full day and a bit just flying overnight to Europe and another full day flying home. Then there is jet lag to deal w/ at your first destination (which is why I usually suggest staying an extra day or two in your arrival city since one or more of you may not feel great). Then you lose at least 1/2 a day/often most of a day moving from one city to the next.

"Ireland" does not equal "Dublin". Ireland is a fabulous country . . . but to get much of anything out of it you need 10 days to 2 weeks minimum. 2 or 3 days in Dublin and a week or more (preferably by car) touring some of the scenic west coast.

so . . . Either London for maybe 6 or 7 days, Berlin for 5 and Rome for 5 or 6 . . . OR . . . Ireland for the best part of two weeks and 6 or 7 days in London. From what you say about not wanting to drive, I'd do London/Berlin/Rome.

Sojourntraveller

I really believe that a person's choice of words they use indicates how they are thinking. Whenever someone starts with 'Europe' it almost always is followed with too many places in too little time.

Most people get all enthused about going to 'see Europe' and then start coming up with a list of all the places they would like to see. Instead I suggest you start with what is fixed. For most people, TIME is fixed and a maximum budget may be fixed. Those are the criteria you should therefore start with.

If time is fixed, then you should start by asking yourself how much time you will need for every place you decide to visit. A good minimum to use to start planning is 3 full days per place with a travel day in between. That means you take your 21 days, remove your arrival and departure days which are basically a write off and see that the 19 days you have left divided by 4 means you only have enough time for 4-5 places maximum. Remember, a place like Rome can easily need more than 3 full days of exploring. If you add a day trip from a base (say a day trip to Pompeii for example) then you need to add that day, not subtract it from your 3 days in the base.

If you have a maximum budget then you need to take that into account when thinking about how many moves you will make. Received wisdom says that every day actually spent moving will cost double what a day spent IN a place will cost. So 3 days in a place plus 2 day trips and a move to another base will use up 6 days but will cost as much as 9 days spent in ONE place. That is a 50% increase in cost.

In travel as in many things, less is more. The less you move the more time you spend IN places seeing/doing things rather than in BETWEEN places. The less you move, the more you save in costs.

Forget 'Europe' in your thinking. That just leads to a list that is too long. Start with 'I have enough time and money for no more than perhaps 4 places. It might only be enough time for 3 places as bvlenci suggests, depending on which places and my interests. Now which 3 places are top of my wish list and can I do them given my time and money available? If I can, will there be any time and money left over for a 4th place?'

Start at number 1, assign time and money, move on to place 2 and assign time and money, move on to 3, etc. You will soon see how far you get.

janisj

Oh -- meant to add -- If you do the itinerary in reverse Rome/Berlin/London . . . Then I'd add a day to Rome and take one from London to compensate for the jet lag.

nytraveler

If this is a trip for your sons I would start them NOW researching the various places, what they are interested in, sights they want to see and nightlife for students.

Much better to get them involved and do it now than find out in a year that they really want to see Spain or Greece or ????

Put first trip with DDs (London and Paris in 2 weeks when they were 11 and 14) they picked out a bunch of sights they wanted to see as well as some fun restaurants and some activities - they love ballet. They also helped sort out public transit so we weren't joined at the hip the whole time. And the next trip when they were older (14 and 17) they did a lot of research on student cafes and pubs for evening entertainment a couple of nights.

I would aim them at the Let's Go Student guides and the Thorn Tree section of the Lonely Planet web site. Also you need to discuss with them drinking and how to stay safe - in eurppe in most places kids are served wine or beer at meals when with parents form 13 or 14 on - and definitely drink in pubs or cafes from 16 or 18 depending on country. So they need to be prepared that if they have a drink or two and start acting silly the locals will consider them very childish.

(not a problem for ours since they were used to taking the NYC subway by themselves and we allowed them to drink small amounts from 14/15 on - thinking it better than making a mystery of a normal part of adult life.)

colduphere

And they'll have to know how to buy condoms in Europe.

colduphere

Sorry. Didn't mean to say Europe. I meant places 1, 2 and 3.