It's quite common in the UK to have a staff box at the pay-desk.

Always tip in cash - if you add it to the CC payment, the restaurant will keep it, the waiter gets nada.

zippo wrote: "Always tip in cash - if you add it to the CC payment, the restaurant will keep it, the waiter gets nada."

That's not always (nor, I think, usually) true. I have asked servers in many restaurants in Ireland and Britain who gets anything I add, and have always got the answer that it goes to the staff. One, obviously hoping to get my gratuity for herself, said it went into a pool to be shared among the service staff -- but on the basis that she got a share of the gratuities generated by her colleagues, I added my gratuity to the CC payment.

Elnap; that's outrageous. In France, service is included in the price; there is no percentage for service on the bill, but it's included in the prices. As said here; you are free to leave a small tip, or round up the amount, but for the waiter to tell you to add another 15% is definitely a rip off.
(the same is true for Belgium and Holland; service is included in the price of the meal).

HI Padraig,

Courts in othe the UK and the EU have held that a gratuity added to a cc charge is the property of the owner, since the charge is made out to the owner.

They have also held that tips placed on the table beong to the staff.

Idon't have the citations. You'll have to google.

((I))

ira, I'll take your word for it.

But what the owner does with the property is the significant question. If the owner gives it to the staff, then I'm happy. That's why I ask what happens to it and, as you might have noticed, it is the server that I ask. A proprietor who is mean enough to retain money that is presumably intended for staff might also be mean enough to lie to me about it.

I presume that the service charge that some establishments impose usually does not go to staff. It strikes me that there is something unfair about showing a menu with prices to which 15% is added when the bill is presented, and I tend to avoid places that have such a practice. I don't think my policy has led to reduced quality in my dining experiences: good cheap places don't do it, and the better restaurants that I use for a social evening don't do it. It's the in-between places that seem to try it, very often hotel restaurants.

Incidentally, I was once informed that leaving a tip on the table for a server in Austria is highly frowned upon and considered an insult. If you are leaving a tip there, you should only hand it to the server. Can anyone else confirm that?

>>>>>
It's quite common in the UK to have a staff box at the pay-desk.
>>>>>

customers almost always settle the bill at their tables, not at a 'pay-desk'. or do you mean that the money collected from individuals at tables is pooled for all staff?

>Austria is highly frowned upon and considered an insult
Of course it is not, it is not the norm, bur it's quite difficult to insult anybody by leaving money (unless you give too little that is ;-) )

Hi P,

>It strikes me that there is something unfair about showing a menu with prices to which 15% is added when the bill is presented, <

That's the norm in the US. It's called a "tip".

In Europe, the menu almost always shows prices with the 15% "service charge" included. That's why tipping is not the norm.

The SC is used to pay the staff.

((I))

>>>>>
Austria is highly frowned upon and considered an insult
>>>>>

most austrians have never left austria nor are they exposed to anything non-austrian. they are therefore are not aware of the practice of tipping that happens in much of the world and would become very confused and insulted if a foreigner tries to give them a tip. they will be insulted and think that you think they are a beggar.

seriously, i never understood why people think it would be common to be insulted or confused by a foreigner giving them a tip.

In Italy, Italians don't tip.

Walkingaround

What NeoPatrick said was not tipping in general, but leaving coins on the table as a tip for the server. This is not the way it's done in Austria or Germany, though I don't know whether it's an insult or not - when it comes to pay, the server brings a bill and a large purse, and you just tell them to keep the change (saying 'Stimmt so', 'It's ok') or hand back whatever tip you'd like to give them. This way you personally show your appreciation to the server.

logos: Can you be more specific on how much percentage tip should one give for wine? In the US it is the same as food (minimum 15%), but we usually can bring our own special wine bottles to the restaurant and just pay a corkage fee of 20-50 dollars per bottle so the tip is not as exorbitant.

It's easy to run up a wine bill as wine prices are much higher than food. Some of our friends are accustomed to having high end Burgundy/Bordeaux/super Tuscan wines with nice dinners. What really gets me was the additional 10% tip we did in Italy. We don't tip that high in France as we know it's not expected.

It helps to know the exact rule of WINE tipping in Germany (5% vs 10% maybe or is there a maximum tip amount per table?) as we will be traveling through Bavaria & Austria together this year. You did mention that for food the waiter does expect a 10% tip, didn't you?

Thanks, Alec. And you are right, the person who told me that was an Austrian, who indicated that the issue was not the tip itself, but rather leaving it on a table as if it were a "scrap" to be picked up.

The issue with this situation was that if you paid with a credit card and then wanted to leave extra as a tip, you had to be sure to have that money ready when you signed the slip so you could hand the money to the server then -- not leave it on the table. And to be honest, more than once in Austria, I found a server sort of waiting at the table after I signed the slip. It occurred to me that the servers were indeed waiting to see if I'd offer more cash as a tip.

Frankly I think the days of waiters in just about any country considering a tip an insult are long gone. They are not so "ignorant" that they are unable realize that tipping is a major part of many cultures, and there are few people who really don't want to earn more than their guaranteed wages.

Dax, did you just add that tip on your own in Italy? Or did the waiters "encourage" you to leave them a tip? In Florence, the waiters are famous for saying to tourists, "Tip is not included" as they bring the bill.

We don't differentiate in Europe between tipping on wine and food - its 10% overall - so if the food is 200 and the wine is 50, the tip would be 25 (generally) unless you are in a country of low tipping - Belgium/Austria etc.

On a bill of 100 euros (Dinner &Drinks) in Austria or Belgium, I would leave 7 euros.

ira wrote: "In Europe, the menu almost always shows prices with the 15% "service charge" included. That's why tipping is not the norm."

That's continental Europe, and it varies a bit there (e.g. in Hungary, it's 10%). It's not generally done that way in Ireland and Britain: service is not included in the menu price. You may see a note in small print at the foot of the menu advising you (if you read small print) that 15% SC will be added. I know that in some establishments that the SC goes to the house, and I suspect that is the general practice.

It is customary here to give a tip of about 10%. In mainland Europe I follow the local custom, which is usually no tip or a modest one. Many Americans follow the custom of their home country and tip at about 15%. I suspect that servers have a mixed reaction to this, being glad to get the money, but thinking that those who give it are a bit profligate. I don't think Americans get noticeably better service because of it, even in places where they (and their extravagance) are known.

I find that the best way to get good service is to treat the staff with respect.

Amy Zena says that in Italy, Italians don't tip. While this might be true, I have been in two restaurants in Rome where waiters have pointedly said to us, "Tip not included" as they handed us the check.

>It helps to know the exact rule of WINE tipping in Germany (5% vs 10% maybe or is there a maximum tip amount per table?)
Like lawchick said, there's no difference between wine and food in that respect. 10% is expected, if you eat (or drink) for say 1000€, a 50€ tip would be enough. :-)