Tipping van drivers
 

We've engaged a van service o take three of us with luggage and one pair of skis on three separate trips--GVA airport to Courmayeur, Courmayeur to Chamonix and Chamonix to Lyon--and were quoted a single price. Since I assume we'll have different drivers and I know the trips are of different lengths and between 3 different counires, , I'm now unsure of what to do about tips. I can fairly easily calculate the distance differences and try to gauge some general difference among the trips but I don't know what the going tipping rate is for van drivers and could use some guidance from those in the know. Also two of the trips are just point to point but one involves an airport pick up and all that entails. I presume I need to factor in a bit more for that.

I'd very much appreciate up to date info and guidance from anyone with knowledge of such things. Thanks for your help.

Nothing.

0.
That is the tip I give.
The drivers are paid by the company you paid the full price.

No tip unless there is a big snowstorm or something that makes the trip last 3 hours longer than it should.

>> . . . but one involves an airport pick up and all that entails.<<

Not sure what 'all that entails' means. Airport pickups are the majority of their business - but I agree - no tip. Or if your American sensibilities simply won't let you do that - give him €5 (but don't)

There is no obligation. But know that these drivers are rather badly paid.

Yes, those working in the service industry generally are paid a better wage than perhaps in the US, but I don't know about these drivers specifically. However, service is still service. If the person provided the service is going through the motions, I would be inclined not to tip. If the service is exceptional, I would consider a tip, maybe 5-10% of the service fee up to a maximum, depending on the time and cost of the service. A show of gratitude is rarely not appreciated anywhere in the world, and a tip, for even a little extra effort, might mean better service for all. From my own experience, I have seen service people in Europe often seeming to work extra hard for Americans, knowing that Americans are generous with tips; while the reverse is sometimes true in America, where the service industry (and I have owned lodging and restaurant businesses) routinely provides lesser service to some Europeans, simply because they do not expect to receive a tip.

Why on earth do some people not think that one's salary is the appropriate compensation for work done? I worked in an office for an amazing number of years and never received a tip, but I didn't expect one either. Yes, we understand that certain supposedly advanced countries promote inequality in service industries (on what basis? who knows?), but it is not the case in the three European countries concerned by this thread.

The OP will not know which of us are European and which not. Basically, the Europeans say no.

But the three transfers take place in non-tipping European countries.

>>Basically, the Europeans say no.<<

And one Yank ;)

and janisj :-)

And one Anglo-American, lol.

I simply don't get why "when in Rome do as the Romans" is too difficult for some people. China used to be a completely non-tipping country, now I read that westerners are expected to tip, at least in places like Beijing. It's ridiculous, and all down to people who can't keep their money in their pockets.

I'm also trying to figure out why the percentage keeps going up in the US. When I moved there in the mid-70s they used to sell little tipping cheat sheets, and as I remember 10% was the mid point.

Nothing. But I tell them what I would have given them in North America.

Do you also tell them what they would earn in the US?

while the reverse is sometimes true in America, where the service industry (and I have owned lodging and restaurant businesses) routinely provides lesser service to some Europeans, simply because they do not expect to receive a tip.

these tip threads are grreat : (So should I take this as an excuse or a reason NOT to tip (much) in the US since US waiters will downgrade their level of service according to the fact I'm European ?

(Strangely enough I just come back from Myanmar and we were told what to tip the drivers and the guides and we did accordingly. But we got good service, probably the Burmese don't adapt (yet) their level of service to nationality of tourists.)

Interesting.

As you apparently you have information that the rest of us do not, how much are these people paid? Do they actually receive 5 weeks of paid vacation annually. Is their full and complete health care included? Can they ask for and receive time off anytime they want?

Give us the details.

Let me clarify my thoughts on tips. I am just stating a fact that I feel, as an American, that I sometimes get better service in Europe (based on an expectation of a tip), or, conversely, that some of my former tipped employees might have provided less service to some of our European guests. (And, perhaps ironically, most of our wait staff was from eastern Europe). That doesn’t make it right.

I wouldn’t have survived financially if I had paid higher wages and unilaterally abolished tips; and historically, efforts for 100 years to abolish tipping have been thwarted in the US. As a college student, I briefly and naively belonged to a group called “No Tip” and handed out cards instead of tips, urging employees to fight to be fairly compensated. I also cannot stand the growing trend in the US for non-service (counter service) food establishments to give you an iPad with a tip line (with suggestions as high as 25%). And, I believe one of the reasons for the growing popularity of the fast casual food segment in the US is the ease of avoiding a tip.

But when I reflect on our most generous tips while traveling, I recall some of the best travel days we experienced, with private all-day drivers in Athens, Portugal, Dominica, St. Barth’s, and Sicily, where each of them went above and beyond. I don’t regret those tips that may have been $50 or even $100. We have found a few restaurants in Italy that seem miffed with the offer of a tip, but, by and large, our show of gratitude, when deserved, has been met with appreciation.

Possibly they receive 4 weeks paid leave a year. Health care will depend on the country. No they can't usually take that leave anytime they want, and they will be receiving minimum wage probably, possibly a per journey wage, depending on their cotract or lack thereof.
Not everyone in a European service industry is well paid. The vast majority get the legal minimum wage and the minimum leave allowance, or are part of the "gig" economy on a zero hours contract when they get paid only for the hours they work/journeys they make.
My ex-DIL worked as a waitress and was extremely grateful for any tips she was given.

My daughter works as a 'head'waitress and cannot enjoy the few tips she gets which must be shared with the waitresses - so basically you give a tip to somebody you find nice and it is her coworkers who benefit of it.
Welcome to Europe...

Wow. Hadn't expected to start such a storm but I guess people feel deeply about this issue. All that aside, I appreciate the information and my husband can rest easy knowing he doesn't have to have euros at the ready as we exit the plane.

Can't resist adding just one more piece of kindling to the blaze. Does anyone know how Danny Myer, a big name in the restaurant business in NYC has done with his new (about a year old now, I think) no tipping policy. If I get some time before leaving for our trip, I'll do a little research and come back with what I find, if someone who knows doesn't beat me to the punch.

Again, my thanks for useful and reassuring advice and info.

It depends on where they work if they can keep the tips or not. My ex-DIL could keep them at the Michelin star restaurant, and the konditorei, in her home town, but shared them at the local cafe here in town.
My son is grateful for the tips he receives from guests. They help to see him through the off season when he isn't earning.

The discussion is about France, not some other country.

Do you know specifically of a contract, or are you just guessing. If you aren´t familiar with the work rules in France in reference to requested time off - don't just speculate.

Do you actually know what the minimum wage is in France or are you again, just guessing?

While I shall agree that there is a black market for labor in France, how do you know that these drivers work under such an illegal agreement?

There is a huge difference between giving money away due to a lack of awareness and attempting to forcibly introduce your own expectations upon others.

If you just want to give money away, few people will refuse you. There are few who will admit to having too much money but over tipping is not reasonable rationale to ignore the established norms of a culture different from your own.

So here's what I surfaced on the Danny Meyer (sorry for misspelling in earlier post) no tipping policy in NYC. Upshot is that he's still at it, but some including Tom Collicchio, who followed suit have since abandoned it. I guess it's hard to break with tradition regardless of what tradition it is.

https://www.bravotv.com/the-feast/da...tipping-policy

I have no idea how Danny Myer is doing but NYC and the state of NY must love this policy. They will get just under 9% sales tax on the increased 'Service Included' menu prices to support the higher labour/service costs. If every restaurant did this a huge amount more money would be subject to sales taxes.

And obviously less uncollected income tax due to under-reporting if 100% of servers' pay flows formally through payroll.

THIS. In spades.

And here’s an extra ten for getting the plane down safely:

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...for-gratuities

Maybe this is why it is hard to break the tipping "tradition":

https://nationalpost.com/news/the-10...ping-in-canada

Excellent article, cdnyul.

At our café in Paris, all of the tips (generally just the small extra change less than a euro) went into a tip can which was counted up and divided among all of the staff (but not the owners) once a month. This way, even the people who worked out of signt got their share of the tips.

Coming back to OP's initial question, I would tip the driver(s) if some extra service or courtesy was provided that went beyond taking you and your luggage safely from A to B.
For an appr. €100 private transfer for three people, I'd probably tip €5 or €10 altogether, not per person.
You would still not break some social norms if you did not tip, though.

In the end my husband tipped about $20 for a very long drive from Chamonix to Lyon. He couldn't help himself. Old habits die hard. Thanks for all the opinions and efforts to steer us straight.

The old joke... I bet your lawyer loves you, win or lose you still give him a tip.