Hey, I'm a Londoner and I will happily tip in bars when I get service that I think merits it. This used to be more often, it's not common now.

What do I think merits it?

A bar person who I can see is clearly noting down as they are fulfilling one customer's order who is waiting and is able to serve people in roughly the order the arrived - one of my pet peeves is bar staff who just can't be arsed to even attempt to do that and just serve whoever shouts the loudest or is nearest to the last customer.

Add to that a bar person who treats me with common courtesy rather than a direct stare with eyebrows raised (which is meant to convey the question "what would you like?").

When I find this I tip.

Oh my, Mucky and Geordie made me laugh with their response to what was supposed to be a mild scolding from Guy. And BTilke, very nice putdown of CS.

the pub cultural guide that david references is a joke. it is more of a museum piece than a practical document for use today. the reality is that you will most likely be served (even in the countryside) by a foreigner who knows nothing of the subtle pub rituals so painstakingly described by this guide. this document is another pathetic attempt by the british government to create some sense of "britishness". sad really.

on the subject of halves vs full pints, any suggestion that a modern woman drinks pints whilst halves are old fashioned grossly misses the point.

older and/or more traditional women will drink halves. most modern british women drink wine or WKD-like drinks...not pints of beer. it is mostly foreign women who will drink pints (of course there are exceptions). pints are are not even that popular with younger british males who increasingly drink lager from a bottle or, again WKD and the like. a pint of lager is still consumed by british males but increasingly, the pint is seen as your dad's drink.

it would be extremely odd to see a group of young british women on a night out drinking pints...it just doesn't happen.

Walkinaround, perhaps you should write a revised edition.

I have no idea where walkingaround does his drinking, but it bears sod-all resemblance to my world. I have extensive field research experience in this field, indeed I was involved in intensive research last night while watching the foootball. Incidentally the thing I referenced is tongue in cheek and has nothing to do with the Government (and I thought it was only the yanks who didn't get irony!).

Lots of bints drink pints - and also when en-masse. Admittedly these do tend to be students and the like (and the odd hairy legged bird who is rather too keen on tennis). In my experience posh totty drink pints and the chavvvier dorsises go for the alco-pops. This may be a regional thing.

He's on the money about all bar staff being jam rolls though. It makes a change from Aussies.

You still shouldn't tip in pubs. Thems the rules.

Getting back to the subject of drinks [and I only drink halves, but do wear flat shoes for walking and carry my own cases/ rucksac] proper cider is not sweet or fizzy. It should be dry/off dry and really quite flat, unless it is that horrible sweet fizzy stuff that itsn't cider at all, but the invention of some marketing executive. It is probably an aquired taste, but none the worse for that. But watch the strength - some of them pack quite a punch. And you don't need to tip if you order a pint [or a half]!

Well, I don't know where Walkinaround lives, but it's clearly a different planet from mine. Bit too much hanging around in dodgy 'clubs' methinks.

"(and the odd hairy legged bird who is rather too keen on tennis)."

Too funny.

"posh totty" = 0.1% of the population
"chavvvier dorsises" = 99.9% of the population.

descriptions of "british culture" tend to focus disproportionately on the upper classes which bear no resemblance to real life. behaviours in an oxbridge student pub don't really translate to the real world (thankfully or not...i'm not sure).

david, you are right, i was confusing this pub guide with the government's attempt to document and defend british culture with such initiatives as the "life in the UK" book. however, SIRC is a research organisation that is not in the business of producing parody. although not without humour, i do believe that this guide tries to accurately document pub culture rather than to ridicule it.

Well, I'm back. And I think the Brits should all read my trip report, "Dreams of an English Summer." It'll make a nice break from "the football"!

Germane to this thread is my question, "why tepid ale?" After a long walk across the moors who wants warmish anything? Two days of drinks were wasted prior to learning that I needed to order lager. Warn a bloke next time!

Believe me, David..if we "Yanks" didn't "get" irony we would have stopped spending our travel dollars in Britain a long time ago.

*sigh* It’s not “tepid”, its cool – usually around 40F. If you refrigerate it you can’t taste it. There are chilled beers – utter monstrosities the lot of ‘em, they’re called nitro-keg beer and the best known are Tetleys and john Smiths. Anyone who drinks these horrible things deserves the most severe chastisement.

David--You sound just like the pub owner in Dent who indignantly explained to me how it's not tepid and that it comes from a cool cellar. I think he wanted to throw me out of the place! Warm beer is warm beer. Blech!

Well he does have a point. It isn’t warm – it’s cool, not cold. I suppose it’s all a question of what you are used to. I’m not a great fan of very cold lager – again it’s just a matter of taste.

Ah yes, the "warm beer" problem-this is yet another variation on the ice-in-the-drinks great divide between Europeans and Americans-they don't do ice in drinks, we can't live without it-summer or winter-it doesn't matter-the ice has to be there-(and not just one chintzy little cube either!) They tend not to have air conditioning-we have it everywhere, and on ice cold whenever it is on-so you KNOW it's there.

Okay, to emphasize the point: there's nothing that quenches your thirst on a hot day like an ice cold lager. Emphasis on ICE. Something that is just plain lacking in Europe....they don't get it-even when thousands of Europeans die in heat waves for lack of cold air in their bldgs. (not tepid, not cool-COLD) they just don't get the concept-tradition and all that.

I disagree Spygirl - the temperature of beer has nothing to do with Ice in drinks or not, and everything to do with flavour.

I do really enjoy a cold Czech lager on a hot day, but the mega breweries want everybody to drink their products ice cold to disguise the appalling lack of taste.

It is probably all about what you are brought up with, but on anything other that a very hot day, my preferred drink would be a real ale at cellar temperature.

And a throw back to Mucky "£5 is good money for a student or somebody from Poland" - Why? - Do Tesco reduce prices for such people ?

okay, Willit-I'm laughing at your point to Mucky-I'm thinking we'll have to agree to disagree on the cold beer/ice issue. Although truthfully, having drunk my fair share of ales, lagers and what-not in the UK, there are really only a few times I've noticed that the beer I drank was unacceptably warm to me-and yes, ales are not meant to be drunk ice cold.

I was in Prague some weeks ago, and had a few cold Budweisers (not the US brand thank you!)-not ice cold, but quite acceptable nonetheless.

cool vs cold beer is a silly argument. like wine, different beer is meant to be served at different temperatures. people tend to drink different beers in different situations.

most of us do not enjoy a pint of "warm" bitter on a 40c beach. nor would very many people crave an ice cold corona after a day rambling in the lake district in november.

maybe nobody has noticed the trend in british pubs for some brands to have an "extra cold" choice. i believe it started with guinness but now several brands are served this way. the taps for these "extra cold" beers are complete with mock icy sweat to attract the customer to the super chilled beer.

I once made the mistake of ordering an extra cold lager. I discovered cavities I had no idea I had.

Incidentally it’s not mock sweat – it’s real sweat – ie condensation - as the pump itself is chilled to give the effect