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I live in Wash DC (well, in the nearby suburbs, anyway, but I'm in DC a lot), as do a lot of people I know and most people I know do NOT routinely tip 20% plus. So my reality is a good as anyone else's claiming what the entire city of DC does.
Unless one really has done a survey and has statistics, I think most of these comments about what happens in the entire city are just personal impressions of what oneself does, or maybe a few people they know. There are really only a couple people I routinely dine with to even know what people do. I don't give a hoot what some anonymous person considers chintzy nor do I care if a jerky waiter gives me dirty looks for tipping 15%. I would go to different restaurants, if they did. In fact, I have never, not once, noticed any dirty looks or attitude from tipping 15% in restaurants. I also don't even understand the idea of tipping more on a bigger bill, I tip more on a smaller bill as 15% of $12 is a lot less than 15% of $50. I do not dine in expensive restaurants, ever, so many that is to my advantage that I don't encounter all these judgmental people and am living in a different universe where people don't think you are chintzy for leaving a 15% tip. Why would that even be, I wonder. 15% was the figure you always heard as a typical tip in the US for many decades, where and when did this 20% thing start, and why? Why do people have an idea that they should tip more in expensive restaurants than to the poor servers in cheap restaurants who really need it a lot more (I know waiters in expensive restaurants who make very good incomes with tips, more than $50K a year). |
I see it is spring again, the cookoo is in the field and the tipping questions start.
Surf last years guys |
Yes, hlg. But they do more than one table in an hour.
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hlg--at least in the restaurants I go to, the waiters are attending several tables at one time. I would be suspicious of the food quality if they had so few customers that waiters only waited on one table every couple of hours!
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I'm still waiting for an elaboration regarding Ira's assertation that the hotel management "usually frowns on" tipping the maids. Or is it that they frown on leaving the maids only one euro..??? Why in the world would one discuss the maid's tip with hotel management? Would someone (Ira??) kindly explain this to me, please..
Regarding waiters..for years the usual calculation in New York was to double the tax on a restaurant bill, which amounted to about 16% more or less. Giving less than this was always regarded as chintzy, whether or not the waiter was classless enough to give a patron a "dirty look." But for the past few years, in my experience, 20% is the norm for excellent service in an upscale restaurant. |
Meanwhile, Christina, I'm surprised at your own disagreement that waiters in fancier restaurants should make more money than their counterparts in cheap restaurants. Wouldn't you expect a clerk in Bergdorf's to make more than one in WalMart? Wouldn't you expect a hairdresser in a fancy salon to make more than one working in a mall SuperCuts? Would you expect PerSe to reduce their chefs' salaries as the cooks working in a diner "need the money more"?
Of course, the amount of the tip goes up with the same percentage in a fancier or more expensive place. And of course, the waiter in the fancier place would logically expect to earn more there than if he worked the counter at a Denny's. Would you honestly leave a $1 tip for a blue plate special in a diner, then leave the same $1 tip in a fancy restaurant after a $40 meal, because they didn't serve any more food or do any more work? I fail to understand the connection between the "amount" of the tip and the quality and cost of the restaurant. |
All this talk about percentages. I tend to tip what ever the heck I want sometimes. I do not see why my waitress who serves me my 20 dollar lunch ( salad, entree and dessert) should only get 2 bucks.. whereas if they were fancier more expensive foods, and cost 50 bucks then she would be entitled to 10 bucks..
How is that even remotely make sence to any of you. She walks back and forth to the talbe the same amount of times. I never leave less then 2 bucks for a coffee/ bun type deal, and I never leave more then 20 bucks for a fancy dinner, regardless of price of meal. This is calculated on the server only serving a table of two though, if one had a larger group, therefore more work, then one would tip more. I do think those of you who claim leaving less then 20% is wrong or unacceptable are a bit odd. Its a tip, and leaving a bigger tip makes you a fool not some sort of Mother Theresa helping the poor!I guess in some circles( the shallow ones) it is prestigious to be thought of as a " big tipper" ,, but in most circles it just makes a person look pretentious and silly. |
<i>I do not dine in expensive restaurants, ever, so many that is to my advantage that I don't encounter all these judgmental people and am living in a different universe where people don't think you are chintzy for leaving a 15% tip.</i>
It isn't about being judgemental, it is about norms. I agree that 15% is okay at a casual place, but it just isn't okay at a top-tier restaurant. Scream about it until you are blue in the face, but it won't make you more right. <i>Why do people have an idea that they should tip more in expensive restaurants than to the poor servers in cheap restaurants who really need it a lot more (I know waiters in expensive restaurants who make very good incomes with tips, more than $50K a year).</i> They have this idea for several reasons: 1) Because you expect better service. A top server at a top restaurant is (expected to be) a professional. They should be compensated appropriately - and professionals in big cities do earn more than $50k per year. 2) Because they serve fewer tables. There are two ways to make money, volume or price. Waiting tables at Applebee's is about turning the table; maybe in an hour or less. I've eaten at Asian restaurants where they start clearing the plates as soon as they put them down. If you wait tables at Daniel, then you will be caring for those people for 2+ hours. 3) Because they 'tip out' more people. Again, you don't have to give a cut to the somellier at Applebee's. Indeed, there usually isn't even an expeditor. All those extra people you see at an expensive restaurant need to get paid, and it comes from the waiters. Again, you don't have to agree with it, but it is what it is. Learn to live with it may sound rude, but it is still good advice. |
When these threads of tipping begin...I'm always tempted to ask about how much holiday apartments with a kitchen cost in the US...but as I'm not thinking on going there at the moment, I'm not asking.
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I'm British, and here I would tip:
someone who helps carry your luggage? - doesn't happen often enough for me to have thought about it. In Europe I guess a euro or so - I assume in a hotel a porter is paid a living wage to carry said luggage and the cost has been incorporated into the room cost, so a tip is just notional. a taxi driver? 10%, rounded up. a bistrot waiter? 10% a formal restaurant waiter? 10% a tour guide who is really good? I wouldn't automatically think to tip a guide. A minimal £1/euro I guess if it is made clear a tip is expected. a concierge who has made reservations or other arrangements for you? I would assume this was part of the hotel service, no tip required. I would leave something for the chambermaid at the end of a stay, though. a bellman who gets you a cab? No. a massage therapist? N/A a hair stylist? 10% rounded down if necessary. Note on restaurants: some UK restaurants have taken to adding 12% service charges. This is excessive and resented by many. i would also tip in a pub if food is brought to the table, even if oredered at the bar. |
Hey Fodorites,
Thanks to all who shared their tipping philosophies and amounts!! It certainly was helpful to me to see real percentages and amounts for various countries and situations. I put proper tipping in the category of good manners and most times I like to fit in the "norm" on this so I really appreciate the feedback. I think if most of us fit in the norm the high-tippers and the chintzy tippers will hopefully balance out each other. One more thought... when I'm on vacation having a wonderful time and feeling pretty fortunate about my life, sometimes a good tip is just my way of spreading the cheer - it's probably some "American" thing, but I just can't help myself;) On the last day of a nice stay, my husband and I usually sit over coffee at breakfast and decide who to tip and how much. We want those who made our stay special to know we appreciate it. Happy Travels and Tipping (where it's appropriate of course)... gruezi |
"Yes, hlg. But they do more than one table in an hour."
jake1, I never said they weren't. Your post implied that they'd be earning $18/hour/table in tips. As I explained, that's not even close to accurate given turnover and what's left once they've tipped out. Christina, I stand by the fact that 20% tipping in DC is average. I eat out here a lot, with lots of different people from all walks of life - including professionals, students, and blue collar folks, and for everyone, at all types of restaurants, the 20% is a given when dividing up the check. I never go to the outer burbs, though, so I'm not sure what the practice is there. For good service, 15% is certainly acceptable, but it is below the norm - I would bet money on that. It's not surprising that you haven't gotten any "dirty looks" from servers, though, because a good server would never confront someone for leaving a small tip or even none at all. They'll suck it up and have a few less dollars than expected towards their car payment, rent, etc. Federal minimum wage for waiters/waitresses is $2.13/hour. I would not want to try to live in DC or any other expensive metropolitan area on $2.13/hour plus 15% tips. |
yup, I'm in DC, too, (or the 'burbs, anyway, but inside the Beltway) and consider 20% to be standard. So do most of the people I know.
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Minimum wage is $2.13/hr? I thought it was over $5/hr. Even when I was a kid, 20++ years ago, it was higher than that. Is there a different minimum wage for waiters?
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ncounty-
yes, there has always been a different minimum wage for waiters... thus, the importance to them of tips... gruezi |
Hi ek,
>Why in the world would one discuss the maid's tip with hotel management? I don't discuss the maid's tip with anyone. I leave an envelope labeled "pour les femmes de chambres" at the desk when I leave. (Yes, even in countries other than France. Evryone knows what it means.) >.....for the past few years, in my experience, 20% is the norm for excellent service in an upscale restaurant. So if I don't get "excellent" service, and it's not a particularly "upscale" resto, I can leave 15% without being horsewhipped, tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail? ................................... Hi TG >.. it is about norms. I agree that 15% is okay at a casual place, but it just isn't okay at a top-tier restaurant. OK, I shall confine my top-tier dining to Europe, where the SC is set at 15% no matter how many tiers, and I can leave a little extra if I wish. :) ((I)) |
I don't see why tipping rates should increase over time. I am quite sure that restaurants raise their prices roughly in line with the cost of living, and servers' incomes should rise accordingly.
What I think even more odd is that the expected percentage is higher in upscale restaurants. A couple dine out: a $100 tab might bring a tip of $15-20; a $300 tab brings a tip of $75. Approximately the same amount of work, perhaps some difference in the server's skill -- but a difference that big? No, I say, no. |
Padraig, to answer several of your questions.
First of all a waiter's job has changed over time. Twenty years ago, one wouldn't have expected the waiter to stand and recite a list of 6 or more evening specials many with a dozen or more ingredients and special techniques. He probably wouldn't have brought the little plate, poured the olive oil, perhaps ground some cheese and pepper and splash balsamic into it for your bread. He probably wouldn't have explained the array of desserts or brought a dessert tray and stood there for ten minutes explaining all of them. The days of simply taking your order from the menu, then bringing your check are long gone. And today's waiter may have a host of other people to tip out of his tips -- an expeditor, a food runner, the bartender, the bus help, and others. Meanwhile, those things I just mentioned also help to explain why one would expect a waiter in a high end restaurant to make a LOT more than one saying "do you want cheese on your quarter pounder?" or "do you want the meat loaf or the turkey?" If I'm not mistaken lots of "percentages" increase. Here our rate of sales tax has gone from just over 3 percent not so long ago to over 6 percent today. Why? Surely things cost more, so why wouldn't that automatically take care of increased income for sales tax? Rates of real estate taxes, cost of living, and many other percentages go up as well. Assuming that things costing more will automatically take care of increased income is naive at best. And I can't even begin to explain the logic of the waiter making more for an expensive meal than a cheap one. Of course he does. Why not? Do you think the restaurant marks up all their wines by a set amount? Do you think that they make the same amount on a $30 bottle of wine as they do on a $300 bottle? Of course not. Using your logic, if they make $10 on a cheap bottle of wine, then they should probably just charge $10 over their cost on a $300 bottle of wine as well. Get real. That just isn't the way retail works in any shape or form. |
NeoPatrick, your answers don't convince me.
First, I don't expect -- or want -- a server to stand and recite today's menu; I want a written menu that I can peruse at my leisure. And that is what I generally get here in Europe. Perhaps I might be told about today's special, but I don't want a list of specials. If the menu changes every day, then it should be written down every day. The technology is readily available and cheap. Second, I don't want any of that faffing about with bread and oil and things. Such measures do not strike me as improvement in service. They are making a song and dance of things, and for what? To gull the customer and increase the tip potential. Do you really think changes in rates of tax have any bearing on the issue of tip percentages? And you invite me to get real! Finally, for somebody who bristles so readily at any misunderstanding of what you say, you last paragraph is extraordinary. I did not advocate flat-rate tipping; I questioned the justification for a greater percentage on a higher tab. 15% of $300 is a lot more than 15% of $100. |
Ira: You can choose to address your envelope in Chinese if you want to..not sure why you would address it in French in Italy but..
My question was not about addressing the envelope. It concerned your statement that management "usually frowns on" leaving tips for a maid. Where would you get this idea and why would you ever leave a maid's tip with the hotel front desk? Why not leave it under the pillow on your bed? |
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