Time left on U.S. passport
 

I am traveling to Italy in September. When I depart the U.S. I will have 5 months left on my U.S. passport. Does anyone know whether that will pose a problem? Some sites say you should generally have 6 months left on your passport or the airline may stop you from boarding. I can't find any specific time period required by Italy for travelors from the U.S. I really really don't want to try to get my passport renewed before my September departure. Any info would be appreciated.......

For such an important question, I wouldn't rely on a message board for an answer. Call the state department and call the airline you are traveling.

Looks like it's only 90 days needed. Here's a good page:

http://www.us.cibt.com/visa_overview.htm

I will ask the airline - that's a good idea. As for calling the State Department I think it was easier for ET to phone home. Series of automated lines....Also the charts I've found say you can stay in Italy 90 days with a U.S. passport, not how much time you have to have remaining on your U.S. Passport to get into Italy. I am trying to find something in writing to have in my hand so if we get stopped I have more than just an answer I can say I got over the telephone. The link for the State Dept. site "Foreign Entry Requirements" says that the brochure is no longer available. I'll keep investigating......any other suggestions?

You might be right to be worried: scroll down this page...

http://www.languagecourse.net/visa/italy.php3

There's a link to the consulate there to find out more.

Josephina, the info on that site is confusing, didn't you think? For one thing, they write;

"Citizens of the following countries require a passport:
Passport valid for 6 months required by all except:
nationals of Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Netherlands, Portugal, San Marino, Spain and Switzerland with a valid national ID card. "

That says, "the following countries," then lists no countries, then lists the exceptions. (!)

From what I've read on these forums, some specific countries have the 6 months rule. Italy has never been among among them.
Following is the single paragraph of the official Italian tourism board website:

"Passport Regulations
A visa is not required for a U.S. or Canadian citizen holding a valid passport unless he expects to stay in Italy more than 90 days. If, after entering Italy, the tourist decides he would like to stay more than 90 days, he can apply, once only, at any police station (questura) for an extension of an additional 90 days. He will be asked to prove that he is a bona fide tourist with adequate means of support. As a rule, permission is granted immediately. Non-American citizens should check current visa requirements with the nearest Italian Consulate before departure."
http://www.italiantourism.com/

legally, your passport has to be valid for another 6 months after you leave the country, despite what all kind of sleazy websites tell you. And this applies to all Shengen countries. In practice you will probably be allowed to enter the country with your passports if they are only valid for 5 months. Question is: are you prepared to take the risk?

tomassocroccante,

Exactly. That's why I said "may have reason to be worried" and that's why I noted the listing for Italian consulate, which I honest to God hope has some clear info!

I had been checking sites for other countries we'll be going to. We were warned that Czech Republic was pretty strict about the 90 day (3-month) rule already.

With all the horrer stories I have heard about renewals at the passport office I'm thinking about going for a renewal NOW, even though it doesn't expire until 2011.

I have not been able to get past the automated voice system for the Philadelphia Italian Consulate and there is nothing on their website addressing how much time you need to have remaining on your U.S. passport to legally enter Italy. Some people are confusing how long you can stay in a foreign country as a possessor of a U.S. passport, with the issue of how much time you must have left on your passport to be allowed into a foreign country.

Tjenneke says "legally, your passport has to be valid for another 6 months after you leave the country"...Is that a U.S. law, and if so where is that stated? And if that's the case, then a passport is really only valid for 9 years and 6 months. After that it apparently can't be used for international travel? That may be the case but if so, it's ridiculous. Six months is a long time. It's a half a year on a 10 year passport.

We can't take the chance of being stopped and therefore we have to start a frenzied, expedited passport renewal process for passports that currently have 6 months remaining and will be "valid?" for 5 months at the time of our departure. Not to mention the fear of turning in our "valid"? passports this close to departure.

Would still like to see the actual citation for this rule/law. And would like to see the same for Italy.

Just my opinion, but if I were in your position, I would do the following:

1. Call the airline & ask for the "rule" in the US departure/entry points & in the foreign countries. They may have contact numbers for getting the "official" written rules. However, I have found that the call center people have no idea how the airport folks work - so I would go to the airport & talk to the checkin desk supervisor & the Homeland Security supervisor - either one of these checkers could stop your travel. The checkin desk can give you the phone numbers for their airline checkins in other countries.

2. Maybe the place you will get stopped is at the airport security check? So, I would call Homeland Security. I've called them before; no problem getting thru. If not them, they will direct you in the proper direction.

3. Call your Federal Senator's office & explain there is no way to effectively navigate the State Dept.'s phone & website systems to get a correct answer. Ask for verification (in writing on official letterhead) of the law here & in the countries you are going to visit. That is their job to assist their constituency navigate thru the national system. The least you should end up with is a direct phone number to the State Dept. to get the info. By the way, depending on the Senator's office, some of the phone answering folks can get snippy & not too helpful. If necessary, visit the office & insist on some assistance.

4. Also, in areas of the U.S. there are Passport offices where we can go in person. I'm in Indy; ours is Chicago. If you get desperate enough, you might sacrifice a day or two & go there & wait in line & have your passport renewed on the spot - no risk for you at all then when you travel. This is what I would do no matter what I had in writing - I don't like to take chances. But then I am retired & have the time.

5. Lastly, there is the option of calling your local news TV station's community action person. WHile this is not a "cause" for them to run with, he/she may assist with directing you in the right direction.

BTW, we sent our passports in for renewal in May this year. Did not expire until 2/2008, but we did not want to take a chance of getting too close. We got them back in 5 WEEKS!!! With you leaving in Sept. however, I wouldn't take the chance, if I were you.

Good luck, Julie

DH wants some input. He thinks the 6 month rule has been waived because of the passport backlog. You might ask that question when you search around.

Dept of State Foreign information:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1765.html

Their Italian page says not a word about expiration date of passport.

The Italian Embassy in DC is at:
http://www.ambwashingtondc.esteri.it...nti/Visti_faq/

They make no mention of it, either, that I can find.

Julie, the "6 month rule" in fact is not from the US, but certain other countries. (I think I recall Poland being one, perhaps some other eastern European countries.) THEY say your US passport must be good 6 months beyond your exit. Otherwise I'd say it was just a way of cutting 6 months off your passport.

I called the airline (American Airlines) and the rep told me that it wouldn't be a problem but could give me no citation/website/etc. I think we will try to make an appointment for renewals in person in Philadelphia (which you can do once you are within a two week window of travel). That feels better than actually turning in our passports and hoping for the best.

The waiving of the 6 month rule seems to be a 6 month window in which you can travel with your official application for a passport, in the event that you haven't received the actual passport. I don't feel like taking the chance and traveling with our applications for renewal......

I'm also going to place another call to American Airlines to see if a different rep gives me the same answer........

One more note, on the State Department website at http://travel.state.gov/passport/fri/faq I found the following statement:

"If possible, you should renew your passport approximately nine (9) months before it expires. Some countries require that your passport be valid at least six (6) months beyond the dates of your trip. Some airlines will not allow you to board if this requirement is not met. "

That would support that it is not a U.S. requirement to have a set number of months left on your passport. I also found the State Department email site for passport questions that says a response will come in 2-4 business days.

That's a good plan, Giordano.

You might also call Alitalia to see what they say. (If you can get anyone.)

I'm pretty sure you have no issue in Italy, but once the bug is in one's ear, I know it's hard to quiet it without a good answer.

One wonders what the "6 month" justification is. Does a passport "expire" 6 months - or even 3 - before its expiration date? Why all these multiple layers of confusion for travelers?

Checked the Alitalia website - it has no info on entering Italy that I could find. Although even the English-language page has information for Itlaians coming to the US!

According to KLM you just need a paasport that is valid for the duration of your trip. See their website: http://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/trav...c/visaform.htm
you can fill in your nationality and destination and it will give all the info you need. Since KLM would be fined for transporting a passenger without the correct documentation I assume this information is correct.

Just checked some other threads here and came up with - guess what? - conflicting answers. But only one claims that they were told 6months for Italy:

<<I've actually called the French Embassy, as well as the Italian embassy, and they have stated IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS you MUST have 6 months validity remaining on your passport.<<


However, others responded differently, regarding both the UK and the Schengen countries (Italy, France, Germany, etc):
<< [passport must]
"contain photograph, name and date of birth of holder; state the holder’s nationality (or disclaimer if holder is stateless or of undetermined nationality); be valid for travel to the UK; be valid for long enough to cover length of intended stay in the United Kingdom." [from UK embassy website]
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Fr...=1034348270424 >>

<<Suzan, if you go to one of the following countries: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Greece, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden, then your passport has to be valid till 90 days after leaving the country. This is the official rule. A lot of people that don't comply with this rule get away with it.It's up to you to decide if you want to take the risk.For othet European countries:every country has it's own rules. I jhopt this finally ends this discussion>


<<Kate, Of course you're right. I checked the State Department Web Site and talked to the Italian Embassy in DC. Both sources said that your US passport must be valid for 90 days from the day you leave Italy (not arrive). Since mine will be good for 92 days at that time, I guess I'll stick with it and not drive myself crazy trying to get a new one in two weeks.>>

Why do so many of you think a foreign government - never mind foreign legislators - would have the foggiest idea what requirements Italy imposes on foreign tourists?

More extraordinarily sill, why on earth would Italy change its rules, as some posters seem to think, just because the US is incapable of organising its passport system?

Many countries impose passport validity rules on foreign tourists. Italy doesn't impose such a rule on foreign tourists who don't need visas. It DOES impose a minimum (3 month beyond the intended departure date) validity rule on foreign visitors who need visas - including many categories of visitor from developed, but non-European, countries

But for an ordinary US tourist with only a month left on his passport, there's nothing to worry about. To prove this, here's a simple challenge.

Find me one developed-country tourist(just one) who's been denied admission to Italy because they had a valid passport that expired a week or so after they were due to leave Italy.

You have billions of pages on Google, Yahoo and their competitors to choose from. So where's the example?

flanner, I don't believe any post on this board suggests that any non-Italian body has governance over Italian regulations. If anyone implied that, I think it would simply be based on a misunderstanding that the 6- month number was a US creation. Of course it's not, and of course it's not universal, but particular to a few countries. Travelers to those countries need to know that.

There are posts that firmly state information that I (and apparently you) believe is incorrect, to wit, that Italy has such a 6 month rule.

The problem is quite simple, but still a problem: the OP has received conflicting information before posting (and since) and hasn't been able to get a simple resolution by calling the State Dept or Italian Consulate (although I believe he has yet to call the consulate in DC) or his airline. This causes him concern.

Since we have been told that countries with the "6 month" rule will indeed ask airlines to refuse boarding, or will refuse admittance to travelers out of compliance, it's no wonder that someone might be concerned hearing that this applied in Italy. And the absence of any information to the contrary on the websites of the Italian tourism board, Alitalia, the US State Dept etc causes him concern.

You seem to know, with certainty, otherwise. Thanks for the information.

I received this email from the Consolato Generale d'Italia - Informazioni <[email protected]> in response to my question.

"You should have a minimum 90 days validity left on your passport as of the date you are exiting Italy."

I am considering that response an official answer in writing and I am not going to seek renewal of our passports until we return.

I think it's interesting that the answer states you "should" not you "must" but it's enough for me to count on at this point. Thanks to everyone for contributing their thoughts and information.


----- Original Message -----
From: Giordano Betterly
To: [email protected]

Giordano: Congratulations on a firm answer! I bet you are going to do this anyway: print it out and take it with you to show to the airlines JUST IN CASE.

I became quite interested in some of the assertions/arguments here and thought I'd see if anyone had been denied entry to a European country because of a passport THAT WAS NOT EXPIRED.

Found one example and it wasn't the country making the decision; it was the airline. Virgin Airlines in 2005 refused to board a man and his family who were coming to the US from the UK because his kids' passports would be expiring in 72 days (may have been 75, but you get the drift).

He had to reschedule, and he found out after the fact that the US would have allowed him entry. Virgin gave him a bit of money back, but since they had their rule in bold on their website, they did not think they had to refund in total the costs of his rescheduling.

For the full discussion with some rather comprehensive legal points(and as one reads, one sees that the lack of clarity is a constant throughout the travel industry) go to this URL:

http://www.holidaytruths.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=60451

Josephina, that thread points out why people do, and perhaps should, pay attention to these things.

Great action on your part, Giordano, and results to match.

Buon viaggio a settembre ~

Hi G,

>...I think it's interesting that the answer states you "should" not you "must"...<

That's because the agent at passport control has the authority to let you in even if your passport has fewer than 90 days after you say you will exit.

We have been allowed entry to Italy on passports with only 4 mos before expiration.

((I))

((I))

Ira, my man - now I know you weren't a math teacher. (!)

I just went through this dilemma very recently. I was set to travel to Italy in early April, and my passport was set to expire later the same month. I didn't know that you had to have 90 days from your date of return on your passport, so I called the Italian embassy and they essentially said that you "should" have the 90 days, but that your entry more or less depended on the immigration official who was checking you in.

I didn't want to leave anything to chance, but knowing that the state department was SO far behind on passport renewal, I just crossed my fingers and hoped for the best. I speak fluent Italian, so I figured that if asked any questions I could explain that I didn't know about the 90 day rule.

The official ended up just asking me about my return date and telling me to make sure to renew my passport when I got home.

In another turn of events, I think the state department must be catching up on their backlog. I sent in for mail renewal on July 5 and got the new passport on July 23. Not too shabby at all. I did not pay for expedited service, either.

p.s. When I called the State Department to ask, they told me you needed to contact the country to which you are travelling for the correct information, so if you haven't talked to anyone there yet I wouldn't bother wasting your time.

My daughter ordered the renewal of her passport the middle of July and as of yesterday she still hasn't received it. That is interesting that you received yours so quickly nnolen. Lucky you!

We left June 11th for Austria, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, France and England... one of the girl's had a passport that was to expire in August... I asked her mom if she didn't want to get it renewed and her mom (an attorney/judge) said "no, it's good until August and we're coming back end of June... and no one said anything to her in all those countries. Or any of the airlines/train companies...

We are not known for trying to illegally immigrate to other countries or for acts of terrorism so most often we are freely let in and out as long as the passport is valid since we are considered "big spenders". I just renewed my passport by mail, sent it 7/18 and they processed it 7/24 and it arrived earlier this week (less than 2 week turn around without being expedited). I think they are catching up or possibly they already know everything about me from how many fillings in my teeth to my preference in toilet paper since I work for Uncle Sam LOL. Actually, I think renewals are catching up.

There are a lot of conflicting replies on here and I don't know what the correct amount of time is, but I just wanted to impress the importance of finding out the actual rule for the country you are visiting. A couple years ago my friend was not allowed to board our flight to the Czech Republic because her passport expired a month after we were set to return. Her trip got cut in half and she lost a lot of money.

If there is a problem while abroad, just seek out a U.S. Embassy or Consulate and they'll be able to renew your passport, perhaps the same day. Here's a list--scroll down to find the ones in Europe, which are numerous.
http://usembassy.state.gov/

Some African countries are strict about having 6 months left. But as long as it is not going to expire while you are traveling in Europe, should be fine.

You really don't have much time to renew it anyway. I sent mine in in late April and got it back last week. Even expediting can take a few weeks and it would be panic time if it wasn't back

It took 18 weeks to renew my passport. If you need to, pay the expedited fee and then you won't have to worry for ten years. Keep calling the state Dept. I called six times before I got a live person who actually helped. (The same number is sometimes automated and sometimes live)

I believe that your passport must be valid for 6+ months after the last day of your travel.However, you may check it out at: http://travel.state.gov/

As others indicate, but I will do here briefly for the "skimmers:" the 6-month rule is imposed by SOME other countries, i.e. it must be valid for 6 months after you travel to that country, not the U.S. Those countries don't want any problems sending you BACK to the U.S.

Frankly, I think you'll be fine, and given the back-up at the passport renewal offices, it's probably the less stressful course of action.