Three weeks in England, France, Italy with 13 year old daughter.
 

Hi everyone. I would love to have your thoughts on an itinerary for England (including 4 days in London), Paris (3 days), Italy (about 10 days). We will be traveling with our 13 year old daughter, so any specific advice for her would be great too. The parents have not been in Europe for over 20 years........ We were thinking of June or September.

Many thanks
Nittib

Sounds lovely. For a more relaxing holiday if it's 4 or 3 nights instead of 4 or 3 full days, then I would consider dropping either London or Paris - that will reduce your travel time quite a lot and allow you to get more out of the places you're visiting. You can always do a day trip or two if you spend a week in London OR Paris.

The key thing I've found with my kids is that they want to DO rather than SEE. I would include some active stuff, which could even just mean a short cycle (check out the walls around Lucca), hiking, interactive museums, treasure hunts, new food tastes, shopping, climbing towers (e.g. Lucca, Siena, Venice), plotting the metro journey, doing the market shop themselves (e.g. fruit, cheese, bread) in another language. Simple stuff but in an unfamiliar environment. Above all, they hate being trapped in a car - trains and buses are much more fun, especially if they don't use them much at home.

Have fun.

I would prefer June to September, because, especially in Italy, everything is greener then. Otherwise the two periods are about the same.

You should begin thinking in terms of the number of nights (not days) spent in each place, remembering that the number of full days is one less than the number of nights. This will take account of the travel time and prevent you from double-counting days.

Another good rule is that every change of hotel will cost you at the very least half a day, even if the two places are close together. For example, Rome and Florence are only 1 1/2 hours apart by train, but you have to pack up your suitcases, check out of the hotel, get to the train station, allowing time to buy a ticket and find your track. Then, in Florence, you have to get to your hotel, check in, and unpack. Your hour and a half has become four hours, you're starving and tired, and the day is pretty well shot.

Make sure you get a multi-city (or open jaws) plane ticket, so you can arrive in London and depart from Rome. You might also consider starting in Rome and ending in London if you go in June, to minimize the risk of heat waves in Italy. However, there are no guarantees. There have been heat waves here in May, and the last two Junes have been cooler than average.

You could take the Eurostar train between London and Paris, but buy your tickets well in advance to save money. Between Paris and Italy, it would probably be better to find a cheap flight. There is an overnight train, but its service is not by any means the Oriental Express. It's more like a boy scout camp-out. If you decide to do it, lower your expectations and bring your own food and beverages aboard. There is one direct train a day between Paris and Venice, leaving Paris in the evening and arriving in Venice in the morning (or vice versa), which minimizes the time travel takes out of your days. You can save considerable money on this train by buying at least a month in advance. For cheap flights, I like www.skyscanner.net .

I like www.booking.com for finding hotels. You can select a neighborhood, or just "central", and you can sort the list by price or by guest rating. Read the guest reviews before making a final choice.

If you have ten nights in Italy, I would suggest a *minimum* of four nights in Rome, and split the other nights between Florence and Venice, depending on your interests. If you want to take any day trips, you should add an extra night to the city you'll be in for each day trip you're considering.

I forgot to add this: You'll be moving around a lot, so it's very important to pack light. One small suitcase plus a large purse or small daypack for each person. You'll have to haul your luggage on and off trains, and usually lift it over your head to put it on an overhead rack. Plan on wearing each outfit multiple times; choose tops that go with all the slacks you're bringing, and colors that don't show light soil. There's no need for dressing up; choose for comfort. You should have at least two pairs of comfortable walking shoes or sandals, counting the pair you're wearing, with thick soles so you won't be bothered by hot or uneven paving.

Your stated itinerary would still be possible and fun, too. I don't know about Italy in June, but loved France in September and London any time of year.

Maybe if we knew more about what you and your daughter like to do?

It sounds like a great trip.

You need to break up Italy a bit more to see it we can help. Rome is all very well but does your daughter want to spend hours looking at the Vatican when she could be canoing in Venice?

Canoing?

I would really hesitate to take a 13-year-old to the Vatican Museums, because the horrendous overcrowding might turn her off museums for life. However, Rome is full of things to see and do, things that most tourists totally overlook. My granddaughter says she wants to live there one day. There are many other museums that would be more interesting to a kid than the Vatican Museums. Some of the ones my granddaughter has enjoyed are the Doria Pamphilj Gallery, in a sumptuous Renaissance palazzo; the Villa Farnesina, in a Renaissance villa set in a lovely garden; the Barberini Gallery; Palazzo Massimo alle Terme, with ancient sculpture, mosaics, frescoes, and (her favorite) ancient jewelry; and the Leonard da Vinci Museum, with working models of many of the inventions of the great genius. Of course, she's seen these over numerous trips, not in four days. We haven't taken her to the Capitoline Museums yet, but I'm pretty sure she will like that as well. I wouldn't suggest the Vatican Museums until she manifests a serious interest in art, and is aware of the size, heat, and crowds, and still wants to go.

Other things to do include renting bikes or a bicycle cart at the Villa Borghese gardens, walking on the Janiculum Hill, or exploring Ostia Antica. In fact, I think there are probably more things to amuse a 13-year-old in Rome than in Venice.

I was giving an example ;-)

Wow, thanks everyone for those great ideas so far. Maybe we should go for a little longer. We can maybe modify it to London (4-5 nights), Paris (4-5 nights) and Italy for 2 weeks. I loved Rome, but agree that we will need to limit the old building/museum load somewhat! Love the idea of cycling anywhere - the daughter likes to be a bit active. I think she would think a sleepover on the train is a great idea too! Lucca sounds like a good spot. I am not that keen on staying in big cities all the time in Italy so perhaps some down time in a smaller place is the way to go.

Lucca is a medium sized town (on the flat) and perhaps not quite as picture postcard as some Italian hill towns but I really like it. You can cycle around the city walls and then out along the river. This has the delightful virtues of being short, flat and mostly off road. The town is predominantly pedestrianised, has good shops and restaurants. Also a number of towers to climb for the fun and for the views. Some lovely churches and the possibility of a Puccini concert. It's a good transport hub - from here you could visit Pisa or travel up into the hills behind Lucca for sightseeing, hiking or visit a spa. Also possible to visit Florence as a day trip if you decide against staying in Florence itself. You could also visit the beach, although I've never done that from Lucca.

If you can extend your stay, so much the better! I think your plan sounds very good with that extra time. In italy, I would aim to spend at least 3 or 4 nights in each place.