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Tracy Sep 13th, 2000 01:13 PM

thinking about moving to paris...
Hi there, I've just returned from my first (solo) trip to Paris, and I had a great time! Thank you to ALL of you who encouraged me to still go even though my friend backed out of the trip... it was VERY liberating to say the least. <BR> <BR>Well, one of my best friends and myself are considering moving to Paris for 1 year. What do you think? We would have to find an apt., jobs, etc., but we're VERY serious. <BR> <BR>Is there anyone out there reading this forum who lives in Paris that would like a pen pal (email pal) so we could talk? <BR> <BR>Thanks again to you all! I'm returning to Paris in the spring, and I'm going to do Italy shortly after that.

Lesli Sep 13th, 2000 02:10 PM

Tracy - <BR> <BR>So glad to hear your trip went well! I know you received lots of great encouragement and advice here, so I was sure it would be a success. <BR> <BR>Re moving to Paris: Unless you have EU citizenship, it is very difficult to get a work permit, thus difficult to find employment - at least legally. (I've done lots of research on this subject, because I'd like to move to Italy! France and England would be fine, too.) If you'd like to e-mail me directly, feel free. I have been looking at websites and books on the subject of living and working abroad that I could pull together for you.

Christina Sep 13th, 2000 03:19 PM

You don't give any details about what kind of job you expect to get or how well you speak French, so it's hard to know what to say, but if you've only been there once for a few days on vacation, I think this is a very bad idea. If you don't speak French fairly well/fluently and know your way around the city to some degree, it will be likely very difficult for you to rent a Parisian apt (which are very expensive, in any case). You also won't be able to get a good job without fluent French and a work permit which you would have to obtain through an employer since you're not a EU citizen. I know someone who did speak fluent French and managed to get a legitimate one-year "internship" with a Parisian ad agency (she was a top grad from Bryn Mawr with fluent French and a marketing degree and ad experience) and she could not rent a Parisian apt. as they cost so much more than she could afford on her internship stipend; she ended up in a foyer (rooming house) in the working-class 12th arr, I believe, and finally left Paris a lot earlier than she had planned (maybe after 6 months instead of a year) as the glamour wore off pretty quick. It might be a good idea for you to listen to a recent show on the NPR radio program, This American Life, all about expats moving to Paris and how they all think they are the only ones who've ever thought of that before and how unrealistic their ideas were--it's titled "Americans in Paris" and ran 7/28 and you can probably listen to it or order a tape cheap on to the past shows archive. It was a great program. If you do speak French moderately well to fluently and have marketable skills (maybe high-tech computer skills or telecommunications or accounting, for example, as some American Big 8 acctg/consulting firms have offices over there like Arthur Andersen and Ernst and Young), then why not? I would. Otherwise, I think you should forget it UNLESS you are independently wealthy. If you can support yourself without working, it's feasible. Also, if money is no problem and you don't have to work, you could move to Paris legitimately and get cheap housing by being a student in a French university; that would be a more realistic plan. Several Parisian universities have regular school-year "French for foreigner" programs that are very modestly priced (Sorbonne and ICP are two that have them; the American U. in Paris has several good programs, including grad degress, I think, and many classes are in English, but their tuition is not cheap). In your case, I'd suggest you just go for a month, and get a more realistic idea of what living in Paris is like; many schools have month-long summer French for foreigners programs. Maybe if you gave some details as to your qualifications and plans for a job, your French language level, your savings, etc, someone could give more relevant advice or comments. Some people have a lot different tolerance and comfort levels than I do about living in bad conditions, having no money, etc.

sally Sep 14th, 2000 06:56 AM

tracy, <BR> <BR>can i go too???

pdv28 Sep 14th, 2000 09:54 AM

Tracy, <BR> <BR> I think if you want to do it badly enough, that you can and will find a way to do it! <BR> <BR> <BR>Goodluck! <BR>Patricia

Tracy Sep 14th, 2000 10:47 AM

Thank you Lesli, Sally and Patricia for the reply. (Lesli, I will be contacting you. Thanks for the invite to do so.) Christina, I thank you too, but sweetie you have too many negative vibes going on... First of all, PLENTY of people go to other countries and live for a period of time. I know of several "friends of friends" who have done just that. Secondly, we BOTH have moved a long way from our home state after visiting our present states of residencies while on vacation. (so that's not an issue) Third, without indulging who my employer is, I do work at a corporation that is number 1 in it's industry WORLD WIDE, and we offer international assignments. Finally, people are individuals, and what was a bad/disappointing situation for one group of people, can be esteemed as just the opposite for another. My friend and I are VERY free-spirited, faith-filled individuals who believe in living our lives to the fullest --- which is what we intend on doing. I know you were trying to be "realistic" in your advice, but your thoughts are a bit pesimistic. Hey, life and health are a blessing... take chances and have fun... and don't let anyone discourage you from achieving/living your dreams!

Wakeup Sep 14th, 2000 11:25 AM

I can't hold back any longer. Christina's advise was right on. IF your company is so large you should be able to get an assignment overseas, providing you are qualified of course. If you are transferred then you can probably afford to live as most large companies have cost of living allowances in their relocation packages. If you are thinking about just going and "getting a job" forget it, you won't be able to. You need a work permit and you will need to speak French fluently. <BR>Christina is very correct about apartments. I know a girl who just interned in Paris for a large corporation, she did not make enough money to live in an apartment, she rented a room in a boarding house (foyer), it was little more then a closet and had a shared bathroom downthe hall. If this is for you - go for it! <BR>Living in different states in the U.S. is not all that different, living in different countries is. I hope you do give it a try, but not unless you and your friend can afford to live nicely for one year without working or if you can wangle a transfer I'd be listening more to Christina's advice, she is not pessimistic, she is realistic.

Tracy Sep 14th, 2000 12:07 PM

I DID say I realize she's being realistic, but finances are the LEAST of my concern shall we say... thanks <BR> <BR>So I AM awake, it's just NOT a concern!

wideawake Sep 14th, 2000 12:47 PM

Tracy - you need to take some time to grow up before you try to become a world traveler. Your attitude is probably the worst thing you've got going for you right now. Get over yourself.

ditto Sep 14th, 2000 01:10 PM

Tracy, I'm afraid you need to grow up, you have an attitude problem (people are trying to help you with advice that YOU asked for). I'm glad money is no object, too bad manners are not as well. You do come across as a spoiled kid, perhaps a rich spoiled kid, but spoiled just the same. Grow up. You will not be welcome anyplace with the attitude you are currently expressing, just another ugly American abroad is what I think. <BR>You may have a good job and earn a great salary but you have no manners and it's reflected in your attitude here. All I can say is good luck with your "trip", you will need it.

Tracy Sep 14th, 2000 01:13 PM

Man,you don't even know me, who I am, or what I'm about... attitude is the least thing that I have in my life, because I could really care less about what other people think - - I'm just one who speaks their mind, that's all. No more, no less. <BR> <BR>And I've found that those who past judgement like you have on others, usually do so because they hate that aspect about themselves (they also don't hide behind fake names and i.d.'s)... <BR> <BR>What you obviously need is prayer, and that's what you'll get from me! <BR> <BR>Anyway, to all others, I truly apologize for this unnecessary banter...

GETOFFHERBACK Sep 14th, 2000 02:05 PM

wideawake and ditto -- shut up! Tracy was simply giving her feedback, and I don't detect an attitude in her comments. She made it a point to thank Christina and said she understood that Christina was just trying to be realistic. But she too just pointed out that she felt it was a bit on the down side. <BR> <BR>You two are carrying the attitude. Lay-off! Just because she said finances are not a concern doesn't mean she's a spoiled brat, or whatever you said, it could mean just what she said: it's not a concern. She may not mind sharing a bathroom, or for a period of time living a more simpler life than she is now, etc. Or she could be wealthy - - which if so, great. Either way, she stated it's not a concern. <BR> <BR>It sounds like you two are jeolous of the money she may have. Get a life! To say she has an attitude and no manners? Look at your messages. You're the one's without the manners! <BR> <BR>Tracy, don't worry about the banter. You're right, prayer would be good -- for both of them. You'll be successfull whatever you decide to do!

ditto Sep 14th, 2000 02:17 PM

I think caring less about what other people think says it all about you Tracy. You may be wealthy or have a good job but you have no class. Money cannot buy that. As for being jealous, I don't think so, I'm quite successful, have a good job and travel frequently. <BR>I hope you enjoy your life but I still say I hope you grow up.

parisian Sep 14th, 2000 02:24 PM

So Tracy if you have it so lined up, why bother to ask? By the way, it's "its industry". So, what level management job DO you have with this multi-national? No doubt your faith will produce you a fabulous job and pad in Paris, since I don't see your qualifications producing it, ma cherie. Christina gave you lots of relevant info that you can choose not to listen to. A successful adaptation to Paris is more about competence, sophistication, and what you have to offer than about "vibes" and prayer. But then again, maybe you could be a missionary? (Of course, I meant that tongue-in-cheek, should that be lost on you.) <BR>

Tracy Sep 14th, 2000 02:24 PM

Ok, this is ridiculously funny! I mean hilarious! <BR> <BR>Thank you for the support GETOFFOFHERBACK, I appreciate it. Believe me, I'm not studying those other two. But I must say you hit the nail on the head... 1st) THEY had the attitudes. I was simply stating a reply to Christina. I had no attitude or ill-feeling. Shoot, I appreciated the advise (like I said) because it's giving me some direction. 2nd) YES! I just wanted them to stop focussing on the money, because it isn't as much of a concern for me as they were making it out to be... that's all. I worked hard for my money like everyone else, however I've been blessed to be able to afford certain luxuries. They were just trying to read too much into it. <BR> <BR>Anyway, I find that people who say and do sour things such as that have bad things come right back around to them. So it's not even a concern. As a matter of fact, this forum could be the only way they're able to chastise or berate someone because they get pushed around all day in life. That type of thing is usually the case, so again, no biggy and thanks again.

wideawack Sep 14th, 2000 02:29 PM


enoughalready Sep 14th, 2000 02:46 PM

Let's all just let Tracy go off to Paris and live happily ever after. She can even find a wide selection of cathedrals to pray in once there.

Tracy Sep 14th, 2000 02:47 PM

MEOW, MEOW!!! I've read other people's postings where people were so catty and I thought it too to be sooo ridiculous! I said it when I read others then, and I'll write it now... people are so harsh on others unnecessarily so. (believe me, it WILL come back on you) They just blow things out of proportion. Oh my goodness. It's sad even. <BR> <BR>parisian, you'd be AMAZED at what God can do through faith & prayer... give it a try. You're wrong. With the effort behind it, He IS all you need! (and how petty, you know people type fast on these things, please, I'm sure I have other typos as well as yourself - - whatever) <BR> <BR>ditto, you don't pay my bills, take care of me, nor know me... that's what I mean when I could care less about what others think. I'm not losing any sleep over what you think of me... again, whatever <BR> <BR>Now, I'm going to stop wasting my energy. I was enjoying this because I thought it to be so funny. You all are boring me now! I've lost interest, so that's it for me. To all other nastiness, just recall what you said when somebody misconstrues what you said and it has a negative result in your life and you wonder "why is this happening to me". If you spread positive things you'll receive it back. It's called sowing and reaping. Bye! <BR> <BR>

wideawake Sep 14th, 2000 02:49 PM

It's people like her who go off to Paris and other places with their holier-than-thou Ugly American attitude, who ruin it for all of us...

Tracy Sep 14th, 2000 02:51 PM

oops, 1 final and very important thing I meant to say... don't mock God! You REALLY don't want to play there!

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