The most basic question ever posted here...about FF miles
 

Please pardon my ignorance. Although I have traveled very widely, through my own negligence I did not sign up for a mileage club until fairly recently. So, although I have taken free flights using my VISA Signature Rewards points (can be used on any airline at any time; not relegated to any time period or flights) I have NEVER used FF miles.

Now that my partner and I both have enough miles on one of the two (I know, stupid to have two....the other is Iberia) programs we belong to, I would like to use some of them for the first time on a trip to Italy next spring.

So...My miles are on Air France's Flying Blue plan. I have about 60,000 (and expect to have many more by the time this trip comes up, after two upcoming and lengthy trips on partner airlines.)

Question: On the AirFrance website it seems as if I have to wait until 10 months before departure to book the flights. BUT, I would like to travel on Alitalia, which is a partner airline. Do I book the flights through Alitalia? Will Air France try to route me through Paris, instead of letting me take the JFK-FCO-Naples flights that may offer the best connections? Is there any reason I should book on AirFrance?

When do I start the booking process? Anything else I should be aware of? I have looked at FlyerTalk but those people are so far ahead of me.....

I am sure this will provoke a lot of laughs..so please bear with me.. I wish I had known about this forum before I signed up for these two mileage clubs. And before I took all of those flights for which I received no miles from ANY club!

You might need to call your Air France frequent flyer provider. Because I know that with United FF, I couldn't book last year on-line using their Star Alliance partners for pieces of a trip to Europe (i.e. Lufthansa). Using miles to get a good itinerary for us took patience, lots of call-backs on my part to see if better flights opened up, and very early advance planning. But, heh, it's worth it, if it lands you a $1500 RT like mine did last May. (P.S. Not a stupid question at all.)
:)>

Thanks, Maureen. I think I must be the only person here who has never used these miles. And the crazy thing is, I have traveled so much over the years!

How early do most people book these miles..up to a year ahead? I always wondered why people were planning trips for what seemed to me to be so far in advance..now I am beginining to understand!

So what I am understanding here is that I can use the miles on a partner airline (Alitalia) but must call AirFrance to clarify. And be persistent.

The FF seats become available 330 or 331 days prior your projected departure date. That's why people book these tickets early. Especially for free seats. For upgrading from coast to business, likewise you should be on this using the same 330/331 days, but many carriers allow upgrades only on tickets at a particular price, not on the lowest available ticket price.

There are so many threads that detail what you should consider when using FF miles. Sometimes, the price of a ticket is low enough, it doesn't make sense to use those FF miles.

i.e., assuming your miles are worth 2-cents/mile (some figure them at 1-1/2-cents); 40K miles would be valued at an $800 ticket price. If you can get a fare at a few hundred dollars less than $800 (at say $350-$500) it may not make sense to redeem those FF miles.

As for the routing question, they will generally work with you to get you to your destination using whatever partner airline has available space. To go to Italy it may be Alitalia, or it may be AF via Paris if they have space on your days but Alitalia doesn't, and so on.

Yes, you book award travel through the airline FF program in which you have miles. Once the reservations are made, you typically then deal with the "flying" airline regarding advance check-in, seat selection, and so on.

Most airlines don't load their fares and schedules into the global distribution systems (Sabre, Amadeus etc.) until 330 days before the flight; it gives them more flexibility on planning equipment allocations, fares, scheduling etc.

ekscrunchy, when I use my FF miles, I always book directly w/United Mileage Plus, rather than online. Yes, I have to pay a slight fee, BUT I get to speak to a human being who is much more able to navigate the ins and outs of getting me what I want. I have been really lucky getting last-minute, good RT flights to Europe. My husband & I are not the kind of people who can plan a trip 2 months ahead -- let alone a year ahead!

eskcruncy
trsmom here again...
We have 4500000 to use. I saved forever to use them and was told to book about 6 months ahead. Tried that. AS it took me a number of years to get that much mileage, I found that NO ONE had tickets on ANY flight 6 mo. ahead. Now they say 11-12 months.
We will book for our China trip for summer 2008 by July 2007!
On FF mile booking. Done that. Called American, they booked it on the companion airlines. Here's the catch...the booking airline gives you THEIR flight numbers that never correspond with the partners flight numbers. So you have you verify every thing with the airline you are actually on. Including seats. Then have the airline you are traveling on send you THEIR confirmation. Take both with you just in case. But I have never had to use the booking airlines confirmation. And they have messed up things like seats, meals, whatever.
Good luck

I think you need to contact the FF folks at AF, especially since you are going to try to fly on a partner airline.
Whenever I have wanted to use my miles on a Star Alliance partner, for example, I've always had to arrange it through the airline where my FF miles are...in my case USAirways. They, in turn, do the checking in terms of seats being available or not.

I hope someday you will have miles enough on your Iberia card...it looks very difficult !!! :)

Kenderina..I hope so, too, on the Iberia card. Last time I checked I had something like 64 points! Or at least I thought that was what they told me!

I am confused about the long lead time because on the AirFrance site, I read that you can only book 10 months out. I will have to call them and ask....

1. You always need to book through Air France/KLM, even on a partner flight. Flying Blue is the sole agent for you to use the miles.

2. Air France/KLM are Skyteam members. To fly from US to Italy, you can use any of these airlines, including mixing and matching - AF, KL, AZ, DL, NW, CO, CZ. There may be others, but these are the main ones. You probably can only book AF and KL on their website. Others you need to call an agent.

3. While most airlines open up FF seats at 330/331 days before departure, it doesn't mean you have to claim them then. Over the last few years, I've booked probably 1 million FF miles for my family and relatives at standard award level (except for half a trip), and none of those were booked more than 3-4 months out.

Two reasons:

a. While seats may get snapped up, the airlines may also release more FF seats over the year, depending on many factors.

b. Continental hardly ever release stardard award that early. Most of those awards aren't loaded until about 3-4 months before.

---

The key to claiming standard FF award is flexibility, especially if you can't book 330/331 days ahead. Do your research about what airlines and flights you can use, and then <b>tell the Flying Blue agent to search for all</b> those possibilities. There are literally hundreds of FF award seats to Europe each day on Skyteam airlines - you just need to ask for them.

Sorry, one of the airline I listed should be OK (CSA Czech), not CZ (China Southern).

Another one is Aeroflot.

Rkkwan..wonderful, concise information. Thank you!
We are flexible about the weeks that we can go..although for this trip we want a Saturday to the following Sunday. I will follow your instructions and hope for the best....

ekscrunchy.

Two of the most valuable tips I find as already given are:
book with an agent and not online.
have schedules written down to ask about specific flights.

This is very helpful if you are booking partner airlines, I have found.

Also,customer service is now outsourced with many airlines. Sometimes there is a communication problem.

I called US Airways for tickets this week and it took the agent one hour to book them. Granted, I was booking my husbands from his account and mine from my account, but he just did not know how to do it.

Thanks, Sher. That is a big help!

Why don't you sell your miles? Then you do not have to go thru this hassle. Most brokers will pay you between 1.5 and 1.8 cents per mile. The more you are willing to sell at one time the more they will pay you per mile. I never try to redeem miles in the way the airlines want you to, for the exact reason you are finding out. Sell your miles and use the cash to have a better selection of an intenary.

I have used FF Delta miles to fly to Europe a half dozen times. I have learned to book 330 days out when they start making seats available.

I try to avoid AF and Alitalia but these two are generally much easier to book. Direct flights are much harder to confirm so I take what is available and then waitlist for direct flights.

Airlines have really limited the number of FF seats. For October, I booked my Italy flights the first day they opened and it cost me 90,000 miles each in business class. It cost my friends, who waited, 500,000 AMEX points same days same flights. I actually showed him how to move the points over to DL instead of &quot;buying&quot; thru Amex as they wanted 1.4 million points for these same flights. By converting and transferring, he saved a lot of points.

kfusto:
Over the past few weeks,
I have been testing Delta website now that they show a calendar of availability. I started 331 days out (for Feb 2008)for Milan or Venice; and there were no skysaver business class available. And yet, the business class cabin shows all not taken. I then checked one week out (March 2007) and there were seats with Sky Saver!

When the window comes up for me to book June 2008, maybe the telephone will be better!

Linda

Linda, just make sure you are not charged to make a change when you book your return as it will be considered a change in itineray and they now charge a fee for this.

I have seen the same as far as them releasing seats and will call every day to check. While I do check online, I have found that their system does not check all possible routings nor partner flights that are not code share.

They sure make us work to us these points : )

It seems harder and harder to book a flight using FF miles. I use AA and One World. I booked a flight 1 1/2 years ago and 'only' gave 4 month warning. My route to AMS was SFO-ORD-Toronto-LHR-AMS. It was business class, but still ungodly.

My trip in May was booked last August for Business Class, but I still didn't get 'ideal' routings. It's SFO-ORD-Mad-MRS, and return from CDG-ZRH-JFK-SFO.
Relatively nice flight into Marseille, for AA, but couldn't get the CDG-JFK connection 9 months before the flight. Yuck!!

Delta will waive the $50 per ticket reissue fee if adding a return to an itinerary which was originally ticketed as a one way.

Linda,
Checking online will only show Delta operated flights (CO &amp; NW availability will be added in the future). If you call, they can check all partners. Good luck!

Another stupid question. I have FF miles with Delta through my AmEX card and then I have FF miles through Alaska, which includes NWA. So, if I fly NWA, can those miles apply towards my Delta FF? Or, visa versa. Can I combine both those FF miles into one FF Plan? Sorry to be so dense. I have around 100,000 miles with Delta and about 50,000 with Alaska.

Of course you can't earn miles on any award ticket.

As for combining two FF plans for one award, nope. However you may be able to book one person on one FF plan, another on the other, and still end up on the same flights, if the airlines are partners and if there's room.

Barb,
Do you mean if you purchase a NW ticket? If so, you can earn Delta Skymiles for your NW flights.

No, you can't combine the miles from two programs into one.

So, if I fly NW I can use those miles towards my Delta Skymiles? Geesh, wish I had known that last year. I applied NW miles to my Alaska FF, which does not have nearly as many miles as Delta. From now on, I guess I will apply NW miles to Delta FF. Thanks!!

Patty, while you're hanging around here, I have a really dumb dumb question to ask. I don't have any miles to speak of, but did sign up for Flying Blue before my last Africa trip. Should I have done Delta or NWA instead? My only goal with this would be someday (someday) to maybe get an upgrade on one of the interminable legs to or from E. Africa.

Going to France next week on AF/KLM as part of this pipe dream.

Leely,
Hmmm... I know very little about the Flying Blue program, but if your goal is to upgrade a paid economy ticket (as opposed to a business class award) to East Africa, then I think you made the right decision as you can't use DL miles to upgrade KL or KQ (Kenya Airways) flights or NW miles to upgrade KQ flights (but you can KL).

I think Flying Blue is the only current option for upgrading on both carriers. However, check what fare classes are eligible for mileage upgrades as in general, you cannot upgrade from the lowest economy fares. And of course, there has to be availability.

If you're thinking about an award outright, business class from US to Africa through DL costs 120K miles. Currently with DL miles, you're limited to KL into East Africa but that may change when KQ finally joins Skyteam sometime in the (hopefully near) future. Looks like the same amount of miles would be required if redeeming through NW or FB, so no difference there except that you're able to redeem KL or KQ flights now through either program so that's a current advantage over DL.

Finally, there's the area of fuel surcharges. With FB, you need to pay both the fuel surcharge and taxes when redeeming an award ticket. DL passes on only the actual taxes as I believe is the case with NW as well (but not positive), so a &quot;free&quot; award ticket is a little less free when redeemed through FB.

Confused? ;)

Is France next week vacation or work?

Thanks, Patty. I think Flying Blue makes the most sense for me because I doubt I'll be racking up enough miles for an awards ticket but I can hopefully get an upgrade at some point. The SFO-Europe leg is actually more of a pain for me in coach than down to Nairobi or Kilimanjaro.

Has KQ started flying into NBO out of CDG yet? You can see where this is headed. That's a pretty convenient connection. :D

France = not work related. Yay.

Sorry to hijack your thread, ekscrunchy.

Leely, the whole thread has gotten as confusing to me as the original subject....this is one I would be happy for someone else to carry on with!!!!

The only thing I see is that I have to call and talk to an agent and have my options listed...

Oh..one more question before I go: I am traveling to Asia next week. I have my major flights booked, but have not done my Korea-China fights yet.

I have a choice of taking a flight from Seoul to China on Asiana, which is not a member of my &quot;club&quot; but which would be about $200 cheaper than flying on KoreanAir, which IS a member. To me the answer is simple..take the cheaper flight. But since I am a total moron about these things, tell me..is that the right decision? (Yes, I realize that this is totally unrelated to Europe so ignore if necessary...!!)

ekscrunchy - Most likely yes. Where are you flying to?

ICN-PEK is only 562 miles. Even if you earn 100% for roundtrip, you get just 1,000 miles. Bucket change compared to $200.

ICN-PVG is even less. 510 miles.

Leely,
I think the flight started in Oct or Nov. Currently operates 3x weekly.

Rkkwan, thank you ever so much. I will fly ICN-PEK and then PVG-ICN. (And I want you to know that I just had to look up PVG to see what it meant....)

I am going to follow your advice and book on Asiana; I have those reserved already...I am getting the big miles from the JFK-ICN roundtrip so that will help....

Thanks again..I really am not as dumb as I appear to be on this thread...!