TGV Est Opens
 

June 10 was the launch of TGV-Est, France's newest high-speed rail line. NPR report said trains go 200 mph - if so would be fastest inservice passenger train in Europe - replacing 195mph on Cologne-Frankfurt Airport line i think.

Anyway i'm waiting for first firsthand report on this super fast super modern line.

Note though TGV trains require reservations i guess the German ICE trains do not - good for folks with passes. This has been a vocal debate between French who insist on reservations and Germans who are adamantly set against requiring reservations. TGVs run the bulk of the service inside France.

I was all set to go to Strasbourg today -- bought my non-refundable round trip ticket Paris-Strasboug on line. Wish I could say I actually participated in the adventure. My knee is killing me, so I had to pass.

Waiting to hear about the trip from anybody who's used the new service.

When we were in Alsace, we noticed posters in various towns promoting different fetes to celebrate the opening of the line.

((I))

Thank you for the info!!!! I was not aware of these new routes! Which of the new cities would someone suggest we visit for an overnite trip from Paris? Luxemberg City is only 2 hours from Paris, its like San Dieego to LA ! I have friends that commute to work longer in LA.

Luxembourg City is often overlooked but to me it's one of europe's most gorgeous cities because a deep gorge runs down it. Though there's not too much really exciting here the city's no backwater thanks to the many EU beaurats based here - Court of Justice or some EU thing is ensconced here.

But there are the casements, tunnels hewn out of the gorge cliffs thru the years and the main square is lovingly filled with cropped-off French style trees and outdoor cafes.

A few miles out of town is the Hamm military cemetery with Patton's grave - he i guess was killed in a post war Jeep accident in Luxembourg.

So though Nancy and Strasbourg are both real gems and Reims has a lot to drink up as well don't neglect Luxembourg.

Perhaps there will a video of the inaugural run as there was of the speed record recently on both UTube and DailyMotion.

I'll be taking the TGV-Est on June 21st for Paris-Metz and the opposite direction on June 23rd.

My biggest question about the ICE trains is that smoking is allowed on the German sector but is totally forbidden when the ICE crosses into France. As the train crosses the border, do the conductors go through the smoking cars and enforce the French smoking ban?

The last time I was on an ICE it was divided into smoking and non-smoking sections within Germany

In January i rode several ICEs and do believe that smoking is now banned from these trains - at least i didn't se or smell any (legal) smoking.

But i'm not sure.

In the Paris Sunday paper, they mentioned the fact that smoking is still permitted on the ICE and that this was a bone of contention between the SNCF and the DB.

Jack - just looking at RailEurope's seating chart for ICE T trains like those running the French route and indeed there is it looks like a total of 5 seats, all in first class at the very end of the train, in car numbers 28/38 that are labelled smoking.

there are however two other sections, one in 2nd class and one at the other end of the 1st class car that say Lounge a i suspect perhaps smoking is allowed in these areas but not clear.

So not much smoking and isolated but some.

this is for a 5-set train and of course others can be coupled on to make longer trains each with identical smoking areas.

About the only crack train in Europe that allows smoking or even any kind of train. Weird.

i note that railpass holders must pay 10 euro supplement in 2nd and 15 euros in 1st - i wonder if the new TGVs charge similar over and above the usual 3 euro charge for other TGVs in France.

RailEurope is only charging $17 i believe for first class so would be cheaper than in France (of course fees inflate that)

>In the Paris Sunday paper, they mentioned the fact that smoking is still permitted on the ICE and that this was a bone of contention between the SNCF and the DB.

Don't get your knickers in a twist folks - from September 1 all German long-distance trains are fully smoke-free.
On regional trains smoking has been entirely banned since April 1.

I bought some of the 200,000 tickets that the SNCF sold for any destination in France on the TGV-Est for 15€ for this summer (now sold out). But for people paying full fare, the price is going to considerably higher than on the previous trains. All the more reason to seek out Prem's fares.

When i was in Orleans in January on TV News they said that yes the new TGV line fares would be significantly higher than on the old classic line, which i assume will have few or no trains anymore.

And folks in the area were not happy bout that!

I think that a lot of the complaints are not very honest. They are always comparing full fare to full fare, while the SNCF keeps offering more and more special fares every day.

It should be noted that Air France is not throwing in the towel and is selling thousands of tickets on the Paris-Strasbourg route for 49€, taxes included.

which is too bad environmentally as the train is a lot more green than heavily polluting airlines that easily should be displaced on routes like this in the common interest - but competition can keep prices down.

Airlines supposedly account for an incredible 15% of all global warming greenhouse gases - especially damaging because of the altitude they fly at i guess.

According to "How to live a low carbon life", trains aren't necessarily as green as is widely imagined. The faster the train, the more carbon emitted per mile travelled. On busy routes, it claims, long distance coaches are the most carbon-efficient way of travelling.

French trains do better than most, but only because the power's nuclear. The moment the train crosses into Germany, the true ecologist should get off and get the bus.

flanner - i wonder if the book takes into account the new breed of TGV that runs on this route - designed to reduce weight significantly - could change the equation. Germany also has a lot of nuke plants but also coal of course.

And if the situation arises where trains and planes both run the route and have empty seats then it's foolish to do so

How much more electricity does it take to run a heavier train cponsist than a "lighter" one?

How much more electricy does it take to run it faster rather than slower?

How many more people can you move for the same amount of energy in one train than in how many coaches (busses)?

Dookie: I would not even attempt to calculate that - only a public school (UK) matriculator could even attempt that!

An article in Libérations says:

La SNCF a lancé, à l'automne , son écocomparateur. Un outil très prisé par les internautes, avec 10 000 visites par jour et 152 000 sites Web faisant référence à son petit module de calcul. Il fait la part belle au train et à son fleuron, le TGV. L'outil est pourtant très approximatif. Sur un Paris-Strasbourg, il donne 3 kilos de CO2 pour un trajet en TGV. Or, notre estimation (1,2 kg) démontre que même la SNCF pourrait sous-estimer ses performances. La raison ? La compagnie fait ses calculs à partir de moyennes, mixant le TGV (très propre) aux trains corail et aux motrices diesel (beaucoup plus sales).

In terms of planes and trains running the same route, my understanding is that with the advent of the so-called "high speed line" between Cologne and Frankfurt, Lufthansa basically cut out flights between the two cities as a result.

ditto for Paris-Brussels i believe - no flights since 1.25 hrs by rail

Hi all,

Starting in September, smoking will no longer be allowed on trains, buses and taxis in Germany.

See news clip:

"German lawmakers are among the users of some 500 federal government buildings who will soon be barred from smoking inside the premises, after Parliament approved anti-smoking legislation that takes effect in September.

The Bundesrat, or upper house, passed the bill today after failing to push through more stringent measures last year. The smoking ban extends to ministries, courts, job centers and railway stations and on public transport including buses, trains and taxis. It excludes restaurants and bars, over which Germany's 16 states and not the federal government have jurisdiction."

Bloomberg News, 2007-07-06
Author: Claudia Rach
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aJLk.3h0lIck

kiki - about time!

As per ICEs and no reservations i checked bahn.de site yesterday and it seems ICEs Saarbrucken-Paris Est do indeed require reservations so i guess they have caved in to French demands that all trains on the route be obligable reserved. have to do a better check however to be sure all are.

So, Kerouac, how was the TGV trip? Tell us about the trains, etc.!

The trip was excellent, but rather disorienting when one has the old travel times still in memory. I used to take the Metz train in 2h45, so it was actually quite difficult to adjust to the fact that we were pulling into the Metz station after only 1h25.

I have a divorced friend who takes the train to Strasbourg every other weekend to see his 3 kids, and it has changed his world to get to Strasbourg in only 2h20 instead of 5 hours. Also, the kids will be coming to Paris much more often now.

Meanwhile, the renovated Gare de l'Est is looking VERY nice, but the 50 new shops are not yet open yet. Some of the shops say "coming this summer" while Virgin says "coming this winter" so I guess they will open little by little. There are a dozen new escalators from the metro, which will make people with suitcases happier (there were already escalators in the past but not as many).

I haven't taken an ICE, but I must admit that the ICE trains look considerably more spectacular than a plain old TGV, at least from the outside.

PalenQ there are still plenty of flights between Paris and Brussels. Why any one would choose to fly rather than take the train is another question entirely.

>Why any one would choose to fly rather than take the train is another question entirely.

There are even flights between Basel and Zürich (90 km; 50 min by train). I don´t understand why any one would fly this distance, but obviously some people do.

I was on a plane once between San Francisco and San Jose. 8 minute flight. But it was continuing elsewhere.

"There are even flights between Basel and Zürich (90 km; 50 min by train). I don´t understand why any one would fly this distance, but obviously some people do."

Because, if there weren't such flights, people in the Basle/Mulhouse/Fribourg area would have to fly to Heathrow, Frankfurt or CDG for long-distance connections. With flights to Zurich, they can catch their flight to Sydney or Hong Kong there.

>people in the Basle/Mulhouse/Fribourg area would have to fly to Heathrow, Frankfurt or CDG for long-distance connections. With flights to Zurich, they can catch their flight to Sydney or Hong Kong there.

It is distance-wise akin to flying Stansted to Heathrow.

Do these poor Stansted area residents have to fly to Paris or Frankfurt for their long-distance connections?

Kerouac - did you notice if the Consigne - left luggage at Est has reopened. In Feb i asked and they said it was closed for construction but would reopen. Any word? thanks.

The big art deco consigne sign is right over the location of the upcoming Flo Brasserie. But I think they will have lockers and left luggage elsewhere (unless they already do somewhere that I haven't noticed).

Took the ICE from Frankfurt to Paris with the change at Saarbroken or whatever it is called...I think they will be allowing through traffic between Frankfurt and Paris in the future....trip used to take 7 hours...cut it to 4....was great...the ICE train must have hit 320 km/hr at some point on the trip and arrived exactly on time at Gare de l'est.