Terrorism on the Tube?
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:23 AM
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Terrorism on the Tube?
I am not an alarmist by nature but I received my 2nd phone call from concerned relatives asking us not to take the tube while in London.
My sister-in-law works for CNN and she reports that CNN employees in London are not taking the tube and that CNN is reimbursing them the cost of taxis.
I mean I know the world has changed a lot but this seems a little extreme. Does anyone know of any specific threats that should cause concern?
If we choose to avoid the tube how much will we be spending on taxis?
My sister-in-law works for CNN and she reports that CNN employees in London are not taking the tube and that CNN is reimbursing them the cost of taxis.
I mean I know the world has changed a lot but this seems a little extreme. Does anyone know of any specific threats that should cause concern?
If we choose to avoid the tube how much will we be spending on taxis?
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:34 AM
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You obviously are alarmist otherwise you wouldn't have posted this message. If anyone knew of specific threats, I'd hope they'd tell London Underground and the police, not just people on this forum. If everybody in London tried to take taxis instead of the tube, nobody would get anywhere. A car bomb, blowing up cars, taxis and pedestrians, is at least as likely as a bomb on the tube. If you're worried, then stay at home.
Nov 25th, 2003, 06:39 AM
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Wow GeoffHamer thanks for your exceedingly kind reply...
No, we won't be staying home thank you. We are considering avoiding the tube and I was looking for opinions on that.
I didn't really think anyone would reply "Pssst - don't tell the cops, but actually my cousin has a plan..." I DID think that in the US we may not be getting press coverage of concerns in Europe.
No, we won't be staying home thank you. We are considering avoiding the tube and I was looking for opinions on that.
I didn't really think anyone would reply "Pssst - don't tell the cops, but actually my cousin has a plan..." I DID think that in the US we may not be getting press coverage of concerns in Europe.
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:29 AM
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Let's face it Shaya, terrorists could strike anywhere: flying over to Europe, any number of places in London or in cities in the US. On one of our visits to London there were several bomb scares, one involved the area we stayed in being taped off by the police. Airport security was heightened, and the day after we left a bus blew up a block or so away from our hotel. But none of this spoiled our trip.
I haven't heard a thing about attacks in the London Underground, though I suppose that certainly could be a target. I guess what it boils down to is going and enjoying yourself and hoping for the best, or not traveling (which apparently has been the choice for a lot of Americans after 9/11)and living under the false assumption that you're out of harms way in the US.
We are leaving for London in just over a week and very much looking forward to visiting that wonderful city again!
I haven't heard a thing about attacks in the London Underground, though I suppose that certainly could be a target. I guess what it boils down to is going and enjoying yourself and hoping for the best, or not traveling (which apparently has been the choice for a lot of Americans after 9/11)and living under the false assumption that you're out of harms way in the US.
We are leaving for London in just over a week and very much looking forward to visiting that wonderful city again!
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:43 AM
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Giovanna-
I absolutely agree. We are looking forward to enjoying ourselves too!
I am a little diappointed to have been so quickly chastised for even raising the concern...I'll stick to less dramatic topics in the future!
I absolutely agree. We are looking forward to enjoying ourselves too!
I am a little diappointed to have been so quickly chastised for even raising the concern...I'll stick to less dramatic topics in the future!
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:43 AM
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Would CNN know something that BBC wouldn't?
There thousands of threats against thousands of targets in thousands of cities around the world every day. But that doesn't, and can't, stop daily life from going on.
There are 15 underground lines in London carrying 3 million people a day on hundreds of trains. What are the odds it will be you? Probably less than the odds of slippling in the bathtub and dying of a head injury.
There thousands of threats against thousands of targets in thousands of cities around the world every day. But that doesn't, and can't, stop daily life from going on.
There are 15 underground lines in London carrying 3 million people a day on hundreds of trains. What are the odds it will be you? Probably less than the odds of slippling in the bathtub and dying of a head injury.
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:52 AM
#9
Taxi's in London are expensive. My info may be a little out of date but I think the cost of a black cab (not a gypsy or a mini) runs 2 GBP plus 20p increments (time and/or distance). A couple of taxi rides will easily outpace the cost of a daily tube pass. Walking is still a pretty cheap way to go! Invest in a mini AtoZ London and plot your day. You'll see that frquently the walking distance between two sights is less than a tube ride.
shaya, I don't know why people are jumping all over you. Too bad.
Giovanna, I disagree with your notion that Americans are living under the false assumption that they're out of harm's way in the US. Travel in the US continues to lag in the aftermath of Sept 11. That says to me that Americans are well aware of the potential both at home and abroad. That some choose not to travel at all is sad and I do agree with you that the best plan is to just go for it and enjoy.
shaya, I don't know why people are jumping all over you. Too bad.
Giovanna, I disagree with your notion that Americans are living under the false assumption that they're out of harm's way in the US. Travel in the US continues to lag in the aftermath of Sept 11. That says to me that Americans are well aware of the potential both at home and abroad. That some choose not to travel at all is sad and I do agree with you that the best plan is to just go for it and enjoy.
Nov 25th, 2003, 07:54 AM
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If you are afraid of the tube why aren't you also afraid of getting on the plane, or going over bridges, or going up in monuments, or walking in crowds?
Sure there could be a hit on the tube -- but there just as easily could be a hit on any of those other things. Take simple precautions - if terroris are going to attack, staying off the tube won't help you much.
Sure there could be a hit on the tube -- but there just as easily could be a hit on any of those other things. Take simple precautions - if terroris are going to attack, staying off the tube won't help you much.
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:20 AM
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I guess I was less concerned about crowds and monuments because I didn't have 3 people tell me to stay away from them!
Obxgirl - thanks so much for the info! At the prices you remember I guess we'll be bus bound if we give up on the Tube!
Obxgirl - thanks so much for the info! At the prices you remember I guess we'll be bus bound if we give up on the Tube!
Nov 25th, 2003, 08:52 AM
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One of the necessities in life is having to take calculated risks and learning to live with the decisions you make. Your risk tolerance may not be the same as that of other people who daily take the Tube in London, the subway in New York or the Metro in Moscow. One outlandish story about CNN's reimbursement policy may tip the scales for you. So... I recommend chilling and exploring the Tube nonetheless. See what happens and live to tell us.
metroplanet.elan.net/de.geocities.com/metroplanet_london/all-london-map.htm
metroplanet.elan.net/de.geocities.com/metroplanet_london/all-london-map.htm
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:05 AM
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I don't understand why if your sister-in-law is telling youthis about CNN and taxis, why aren't you asking HER why they are doing this and what the threats are, if any? Why ask strangers on the internet what your own relatives are doing?
It is always possible CNN reimburses employees for taxis as a business expense, that's all, especially if it were late at night or some strike situation make them less frequent or something. I work for a company that would reimburse me for taking a taxi rather than the metro if I worked late. They even encouraged single women to do that when we used to have offices in a part of town with unusual nighttime activity.
Anyway, I just don't understand why you wouldn't ask your sister-in-law the reason rather than wanting people to randomly speculate about what's going on with your SIL.
It is always possible CNN reimburses employees for taxis as a business expense, that's all, especially if it were late at night or some strike situation make them less frequent or something. I work for a company that would reimburse me for taking a taxi rather than the metro if I worked late. They even encouraged single women to do that when we used to have offices in a part of town with unusual nighttime activity.
Anyway, I just don't understand why you wouldn't ask your sister-in-law the reason rather than wanting people to randomly speculate about what's going on with your SIL.
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:09 AM
#14
Shaya, we're going to be in London just before Christmas for three days and last Sunday, in the Scotsman online, I read that Britain is considering raising the threat level to red,the highest level. It hasn't been red since the height of World War II. This caused me to reconsider going to London at all, as I'm taking my three children. When you travel with your children, it completely changes your response to these things. By myself, I wouldn't give it a second thought. I did read on the following day that this may have been leaked to a)let a terrorist cell know that the authorities know what they're up to and to let them know they will not succeed and b) raise the level of alertness of everyone.
I was in London often when the IRA were the only terrorists in question, but this is not the same. Now there are no warning calls to the police and the bombers don't mind killing themselves too.
Giovanna, I certainly don't live under any assumption of safety in the US. In fact, the city in which we live is a major target.
Janis, flying with all my kids has always concerned me. I know it's a virtually groundless fear, but it's there.
I was in London often when the IRA were the only terrorists in question, but this is not the same. Now there are no warning calls to the police and the bombers don't mind killing themselves too.
Giovanna, I certainly don't live under any assumption of safety in the US. In fact, the city in which we live is a major target.
Janis, flying with all my kids has always concerned me. I know it's a virtually groundless fear, but it's there.
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:15 AM
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i'm not going to argue for or against your own personal feelings and beliefs. if you don't feel comfortable taking the tube, then don't do it. no point in ruining your vacation worrying.
however, i WILL give you some information on the buses in london. first of all, you can get a central london bus map at many tube stations or at this link:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/bus_maps.shtml
click on "central london" or download the pdf file here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/pdfdocs/centlond.pdf
in central london, you can no longer pay on the buses. you must buy a ticket beforehand. there are machines near every central london bus stop, i believe. a single ride costs £1.00. however, i would recommend a one day bus pass which costs £2.00 and allows you on ANY bus in all of london, no matter what zone. might take longer than a taxi, but the view from the top of a double decker bus can't be beat.
however, i WILL give you some information on the buses in london. first of all, you can get a central london bus map at many tube stations or at this link:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/bus_maps.shtml
click on "central london" or download the pdf file here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/pdfdocs/centlond.pdf
in central london, you can no longer pay on the buses. you must buy a ticket beforehand. there are machines near every central london bus stop, i believe. a single ride costs £1.00. however, i would recommend a one day bus pass which costs £2.00 and allows you on ANY bus in all of london, no matter what zone. might take longer than a taxi, but the view from the top of a double decker bus can't be beat.
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:23 AM
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obxgirl - I agree with you, and disagree with Giovanna also. I live in Washington, DC, and I often tell people who worry about traveling that they'd likely be safer somewhere else than here at home!
shaya - have fun, be alert, but don't worry. As an interesting aside, there have been numerous studies by risk experts that show that people worry excessively about things in the news (like terrorism), which have a very small chance of occurring, and which they have no control over anyway; and don't worry enough (relatively speaking) about smaller but more likely risks, like being pickpocketed, which they can do something to help prevent.
Karen
shaya - have fun, be alert, but don't worry. As an interesting aside, there have been numerous studies by risk experts that show that people worry excessively about things in the news (like terrorism), which have a very small chance of occurring, and which they have no control over anyway; and don't worry enough (relatively speaking) about smaller but more likely risks, like being pickpocketed, which they can do something to help prevent.
Karen
Nov 25th, 2003, 09:26 AM
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The more credible treat at this time is the shooting down possibility of a passenger aircraft. There is a great deal of whispering and discussion going on about this from every side. With the failed attempt to bring a DHL plane down in Iraq the other day, it sems like the terrorists are practicing.
Also, I'm getting this feeling that our own governments(US and European) are trying to prepare us for one of these attacks.
Personally, I believe that's the more likely scenario in the near future. That kind of attack would in all probability be more harmful to us in terms of economics and lives. Spreading chemicals or biological agents is not as easy as most people think. Remember the Tokyo subway attack?
Anyway, that said, I'm very happy to be flying to UK next week to enjoy some well deserved r&r and watch my favorite team ManU in action.
BTW, there is another alternative to the Tube,- busses. Unless I'm in a great rush to get somewhere, I take the bus. Besides being transported around London very cheaply, you also get to see some parts of London, that you can't see riding in the underground tunnels.
Have a great trip
I know I will.
Happy Thanskgiving everybody!
Also, I'm getting this feeling that our own governments(US and European) are trying to prepare us for one of these attacks.
Personally, I believe that's the more likely scenario in the near future. That kind of attack would in all probability be more harmful to us in terms of economics and lives. Spreading chemicals or biological agents is not as easy as most people think. Remember the Tokyo subway attack?
Anyway, that said, I'm very happy to be flying to UK next week to enjoy some well deserved r&r and watch my favorite team ManU in action.
BTW, there is another alternative to the Tube,- busses. Unless I'm in a great rush to get somewhere, I take the bus. Besides being transported around London very cheaply, you also get to see some parts of London, that you can't see riding in the underground tunnels.
Have a great trip
I know I will.
Happy Thanskgiving everybody!
