GGinSF

I'm heading there early May for 17 nights & it's been 19 years since I was last in Italy. I've decided to leave Rome for another time when I can explore the south. I'm flying in & out of Milan (no option there since I'm using frequent flyer miles on United). I enjoy midieval towns, cafes, local restaurants, local culture and some museums. Picturesque views & walks are usually highlights of my trips. I'm also on a budget of about $125/day so hotels from $50-75 (single) are in my price range. <BR><BR>My tentative schedule is:<BR><BR>Arrive in Milan, train to Perugia. Staying 3 nights & will visit Assisi during their May festival. <BR><BR>Bus to Siena (easier than train, I've been told), staying 4 nights.<BR><BR>Train to Florence where I'm meeting up with my parents (they're doing a trip w/ friends at the same time). I've been to Florence before or I'd spend more days there. Spend 2 nights, then train to Verona.<BR><BR>I have a friend living in Verona & another mutual friend will be there visiting. 3 nights in Verona, including a day trip into Venice (I've been to Venice also, but I do want to see it again).<BR><BR>Train from Verona, through Milan to the Cinque Terre. 3 Nights in Cinque Terre.<BR><BR>Back through Milan and up to Como, where I'll meet up with the parents for 2 nights. Finally, back to Milan (by train or w/ parents in rental car) where I'll spend my last night and then back to the USA. <BR><BR>Questions: Is this too much train traveling time? I love the idea of visiting Umbria (Perugia/Assisi), but is it worth the time/distance vs. staying closer to Florence/Siena? Is the Cinque Terre worth 2 days, 3 days, or skip it since it's not as easy to get to by train as other cities (and that mean Rick Steves turned it into a mob scene)? As for number of days, should I consider less in one area (Verona, Perugia, Siena)? Could I catch an early train from Como to Milan and fly out that same day (flight out scheduled for 12 noon). <BR><BR>I know no one can tell me for sure what I'll enjoy most, but I'm interested in hearing your opinions, especially about the amount of train travel, bus options, etc. I should mention that I don't want to consider a rental car and in general prefer to base myself out of a minimum number of places and do day trips if possible.

Grasshopper

GG, sounds well thought out. In my opinion it's not too much train(bus) time at all. Keep in mind that when you are on the train you are traveling through the Italian countryside and seeing...... Italy. To me, the train is never dull. Just looking at what laundry people are hanging out their windows is a lesson in culture! Also, I would recommend that you stay flexible as to whether you take a train or bus each place you go, waiting to see what will work for you best when you are there. Italy is prone to "schopera" (I know that's not spelled right); mini, one day strikes. When the trains go on strike, hop on a bus... and vice versa. It will all work out. And the delights and surprises come when you least expect them or plan for them.<BR><BR>Have a great time!

Patrick

Really sounds great -- not too much travel at all; they are all short distances really. My only problem would be the four days in Siena -- OK, but not my favorite place. If it is a base for Tuscany and you have a car there, it would be great, because traveling by car around Tuscany is one of my greatest pleasures -- just stopping at various towns and exploring a little while until ready to move on. I've never done public transport in Tuscany, but I get the impression it isn't great and it would be very restrictive. Even if you are not able to get out of Siena much, I can think of a whole lot of things worse than getting "stuck" in Sienna for four days. You can still have fun there.

Grasshopper

GG, I don't know anything about you or how adventurous you are or what kinds of things you might be interested in doing. But I have to say that I could easily spend 4 days in Siena and if I was doing that part solo would consider day tours (or take a bus to San Gim. independently) rather than renting a car. Also, there is a place in Siena that rents Vespas and bikes. I think it might be pretty cool to rent one of those for some out of the area zooming around.

GGinSF

Patrick, if you did a day or two less in Sienna where would you tack them on?

GGinSF

Oh, sipping around the countryside on a Vespa sounds great. I used to have one in college and I miss it.

lina

We stayed in Bellagio in October and took a noon flight out of Malpensa with no trouble. Because it was a holiday (Nov.1) we took a taxi to Como then a train (direct with one stop) to Malpensa (about an hour). I think our train left at 8:30.

xxx

I'm with Grasshoper here. I could also easily spend 4 or more days in Siena. As a matter of fact, if one DOES NOT have a car, Siena is IMO the BEST base to explore all it's province by public transportation. TRAN buses run frequently and cover the whole province (Montalcino, Montepulciano, Pienza, Monteriggioni, Sinalunga, Chianciano, San Gusm&eacute;, Gaiole, Radda, Castellina, San Gimignano, etc). One also reach Arezzo in a reasonable time. <BR><BR>For an idea, see<BR>http://db.sienanet.it/web/train/Welcome.asp?tratta=2

xxx

From Como to Malpensa there's a SPT bus line. There's a daily service departing the bus terminal in Como at 7:23am, arriving at 8:25am. The next bus would arrive a bit too late (10:45am) for your flight. This bus service is way superior to the train to Milano Centrale & bus shuttle to airport option. <BR><BR>Regarding the Perugia to Siena piece, the train option is indeed a no no. There's a Freccia del'Appennino bus service, with departures at 9am, 10:45am and 6:32pm. Trip takes about 1:30 hours.<BR><BR>Considering your constraints (dates to be in Florence & Verona) I think your plan is very good. Ok, you'll have a couple of long train journeys to Perugia and to the CT but this seems perfectly normal in a 17-nights trip and, as Grasshoper well put it, you're enjoying the Italian landscape and somebody else is doing the driving It's certainly worth to pay a little on travel time to be able to explore alternate areas you wouldn't visit otherwise.<BR><BR>If, by any chance, you end up cutting one of the areas in your plan, my personal choice would be the CT (I'd never axe Umbria; besides Perugia and Assisi, there's Spello, Foligno, Spoleto ...)

Dond

To: Grasshopper ([email protected])<BR><BR>What could someone possibly do with 4 evenings in a place as small as Siena. Surely it would better to spend evenings in a larger place like Florence. Wouldn't it?

Patrick

Since you ask where I'd tack on two days if I took them from the four in Siena, I guess I'd have to say either San Gimagnano or Lucca. Actually I still have no problem with the 4 nights in Siena and it is nice not to have to do another move -- as long as you can get out easily and visit the other hill towns. When we did a similar trip to yours, we actually spent four nights in San Gimagnano and loved it there. We went to Siena as a day trip, and visited lots of other towns along the way and the other days. Although people had warned us that SG would be very touristy, we were mainly there in the evening, when it was very quiet and peaceful. There were plenty of great little restaurants in town and it was so pleasant strolling after dark in the quiet town, or having gelato or coffees at an outdoor cafe. On the other hand, Siena would certainly have a little more night life if you're looking for that.<BR>I'd personally never get on a Vespa, but I admire anyone with the courage to travel around the countryside that way -- sounds like a great way, especially if you are traveling alone.

GGinSF

Can anyone tell me what time the last SPT bus to Malpensa airport runs (on a weekday)? I wasn't able to book the noon flight out and may take a red-eye.

Rex

&lt;&lt;What could someone possibly do with 4 evenings in a place as small as Siena?&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>I think this pre-supposes what it means to be on a trip to Europe. It smacks of "how could someone possibly live in a place as small as Siena?"<BR><BR>I'm not trying to put down the question asked by dond - - but at the same time, I think that four nights or four weeks in any place in Europe has its merits.<BR><BR>I think it's this aspect of the question "how many nights is _enough_ in xyz?" that makes some of us roll our eyes - - even though admittedly, I too, have used this phrase, and answered such questions.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

xxx

It leaves from the bus terminal in Como at 6pm (2 minutes later from Piazza Cavour) and arrives in Malpensa at 7pm.

Grasshopper

Dond, As embarrasing as it is to admit, one of the things I judge how many nights I could spend is how many restaurants I want to eat at! My favorite restaurant in the world is in Siena so I would want to go there twice (ok, I could be convince to have lunch there once). That said, Siena isn't that small, for a hill town. And GG said she wanted to use it for a base. So it's a good spot to go from. I'm a bicyclist and it's a great spot to start out from. If you were to daytrip you could return in the evening or even after dinner.<BR><BR>I stay at Hotel Caterina, just out side the Romano gate. It has a lovely garden with a great view of the countryside. (it's wonderful to have their delicious breakfast out there). I can spend a couple of hours reading there each day. Sometimes it's nice to just be somewhere and absorb the feel of a town. I don't need to be running all the time.

GGinSF

Thanks for the Como bus time. Re: 4 days in Siena (I'm even thinking of adding an extra day in Perugia), I hate moving luggage from place to place and prefer to use a city as a base to do some day trips. Also, I enjoy wandering around older cities, stopping for a caffe or small meal, sitting on a bench or piazza cafe table reading and people watching, etc. I love returning to a cafe or restaurant a couple of times and could enjoy myself for a week in a small town. <BR><BR>From Siena I'll visit San Gim and probably Montalcino by bus. From Perugia I'll visit Assisi and perhaps Spoleto or Orvieto. <BR><BR>Umbria sounds like everything I'd enjoy (small town flavor & slower paced life), hence the thought of adding in a 4th day there. Perugia sounds like a better city to stay in vs Assisi (more evening life) but I don't know if it will be as convienient for bus/train connections. Staying in Assisi during the festival may also be harder than just going there for a day from Perugia.<BR><BR>P.S. GG are my initials (and I live in San Francisco hence the 'GGinSF'). It's not short for Gigi - the 'she' reference was incorrect ;^)

Grasshopper

GG, so sorry! I don't know why I've always assumed you were a she. Mi dispiace! By the way, I live in Foster City.

Thomas

Sounds like a good itinery based on my previous travels through Italy.<BR><BR>I'm with Grasshopper - for some reason, I've always imagined you to be female. Must be something in your writing style. Being from SF, maybe you'd care for some English male companionship?

TTT

Topping for Tim

GGinSF

Grasshopper, no problem. Perhaps I should have thrown in a few "how 'bout them Niners" comments to reveal my gender.<BR><BR>Thomas, although I enjoy having a pint with the lads I prefer snogging with the lasses :^)