Sarah

After many years of persuasion, I have convinced my retired 60ish parents to go with me and my siblings to Europe. Two weeks on a hosted tour (hotel, air and half-day city tours) to London, Paris and Rome. I'm hoping the trip will spark a love of travel in them while they are young enough to enjoy it. As the big trip approaches, however, I'm getting a little worried. I'm hearing talk about how they don't want to just look at a lot of old buildings. There's worry about the long flight. I don't think they've ever been in an art museum before. They're worried there will be too much fat and salt in the food. They aren't in very good shape for lots of walking and stairs, but they could be if walk for exercise a bit beforehand. I've suggested various books (Rick Steves' Mona Winks and Europe 101), but so far, they haven't put a whole lot of effort into the trip. I asked them to plan part of the trip, but they said they'd like me to do it and said whatever I decide will be fine. I fear they'll have a lousy time. From experience, I know they'll freak out if any of the siblings go off on their own. Any advice on how I can engage them so they'll have some fun? Has anyone taken their parents to Europe before, and how did it go?

just

Sarah, I know you probably love your parents very much and you mean well, but this sounds more like something YOU want to do rather than what THEY want to do. <BR> <BR>I think they are expressing their unwillingness to take this trip in the form of constant complaints and concerns. They sound determined not to enjoy the trip (probably because they didn't want to go in the first place), and you sound determined to MAKE them enjoy it -- it's an impasse between strong-willed people. <BR> <BR>Just a suggestion: ask them if they would prefer to cancel, be sincere and mean it, and see if they accept. I have a feeling they just might. But you should go, since it's what YOU want. You can't force others to have the same interests and hobbies that you do, so let them do their thing and you do yours. Everyone will be happier I think. <BR> <BR>

Maira

I believe your parents reaction is quite normal for a person of age who is about to embark on a totally new experience. If I were you, I would go ahead with the plans. I would hate to wonder "What if...." in the future. If they don't like is a lesson learned (I can think of worse things to do with two weeks...) and if they enjoy themselves it would make for treasured memories. If they are like my parents, they will enjoy just the fact that the children are there with them. <BR> <BR>Just make sure to discuss the type of sightseeing and let THEM tell you what their preferences are. Include variety suh as parks, churches, shopping, flea markets, drving around, etc... On that note, you sure a pre-arranged tour of three major capitals instead of an independent trip to England (language) wouldn't be a better choice? <BR> <BR>Get them involved on the planning of the sightseeing, including leaving some tasks to them, i.e. look for available info on the local library, pick a map/book at the bookstore, the camera and related details, etc...

JC

With all due respect to both Sarah and Maira, I must side with the first post. I have seen middle aged children more or less dragging their reluctant older parents through Europe, and it didn't seem as if anyone was having a very good time. <BR> <BR>Maira, I respect your suggestions, and you are a valuable contributor here, but may I suggest that we revisit Sarah's post. She claims it took "many years of persuasion" to convince her parents, which means they resisted the notion for a very long time, and were finally worn down by their kids. She has tried to engage them by suggesting they exercise, read books or help plan the trip, and they refuse. They are not reluctant children who must be coerced into going to Europe for their own good; they are adults who know exactly what their likes and dislikes are. They don't like "old buildings," long flights, foods they can't eat, long walks (since they are not in shape, Sarah says)and obviously art museums, since they've never before been to one. <BR> <BR>Truthfully, it sounds to me as if they are happy with their regular routine at home and do not want to be disrupted for what they feel will be an uncomfortable and uninteresting experience. People tend to grow more set in their ways as they age and new experiences are not viewed with happy anticipation, especially when they managed to avoid this particluar "new experience" (travel to Europe)for years. <BR> <BR>Have you ever been reluctantly talked into doing something you didn't really want to do, then try to figure a way to get out of it without stepping on toes or hurting anyone? I know I have. I think Sarah's parents have too, and the signals they are giving out are expressing this. <BR> <BR>

Maira

JC--- first let me just say that you can certainly could give lessons on this forum on how to respectfully disagree. Deeply apreciate your politeness. <BR> <BR>I have been in both situations; one in which I was reluctant to experience a travel destination and ended up loving it, and then the one where I confirmed my dislike. If anything, it was a lesson learned. <BR> <BR>Sarah, ask your parents what would make this trip interesting to them and try to plan accordingly. How do the other siblings feel?

helen

Sarah, <BR>My parents (my dad, mostly) had expressed interest in seeing various parts of Europe over the years, but hadn't motivated to go. Then, some friends of theirs suggested a trip to Paris this spring, having heard about the cheap fares. (They're in their early 60's, about the same as yours.) These particular friends actually jumped the gun a little bit, and before you knew it, my parents had tickets to Paris for a week-long trip, from which they just returned a few days ago. Although I wasn't going, like you, I was hoping that they'd love it and start doing more traveling while they're still young enough to get around easily. However, I was also terrified that they wouldn't have a good time--they seemed a bit vague on the planning portion, etc, just as you describe. I ended up booking their hotel for them (to make sure it was centrally located and nice--kudos to the Regent's Hotel in the 6th and those on this forum who offered advice); and I gave them a general itinerary that they could follow, with a lot of specific instructions about things like how to take the Metro. Well, things worked out great! They didn't follow my itinerary (more power to them), walked all over the city (they bought F------'s Paris guide and I sent them the Rick Steve's book, which they reported back was excellent), and had a generally wonderful time! My mom, who is normally neither a walker nor a raver, raved when they got home. So, I would say go for it, though with a few caveats. First, although you say that your parents will freak out if the sibs go off on their own, you and your sibs (how many?) will freak out if you are all together, all the time. (Your parents may too; we offspring can be a pain.) So make sure you set some time aside where you can split up and do some things solo or in a smaller combo. Museums v. walks/shopping for the afternoons may be a place to start, if your parents aren't into museums, as you suggest. (My parents made it to the Louvre; I'm not sure about the d'Orsay, which I had encouraged, but they didn't mention. However, they really enjoyed Versailles, going up to the "top" of the Eiffel Tower and Arc de Triomphe, shopping in the dept stores etc, and walks along the Seine, Champs d'Elysees, and the parks and neighborhoods). The other thing I'd try to be sensitive to is fears about the food: although you may be up for polenta with squid ink (neither of which, eg, I'd had before visiting Venice about 5 years ago), chicken with a new type of sauce may be as adventurous as they want to get. So just be careful when you pick restaurants that there are a few things they'll be likely to want to eat--I suspect it'll go a long way towards making them feel comfortable. Finally, once you get there, relax! It's going to be your vacation as well. Don't get so invested in making it spectacular for them that you forget to have a good time and see the things you're interested in also: otherwise, you'll get resentful, and no one will have a good time. Anyway, hope this helps. Good luck!

Sarah

Thank you all for your thoughtful, polite responses. Maybe a few details will help. <BR> <BR>I think what I'm seeing in my parents is a classic case of mixed feelings. On the one hand, the folks keep saying they want to go and claim to be looking forward to it. They got their passports quickly, bought new luggage, clothing, camera and money belts. They've told all of their friends that they are going. That suggests some level of interest in the trip. <BR> <BR>What troubles me is that they are reluctant to "immerse" themselves in the details and history enough to know what they want and what interests them. This is reflected in their wish to go to the three major cities rather than experience one country in more depth, I think. By the way, the reason I started to worry was a thread on this forum in which people talked about bad travel experiences, and a common factor was a travel partner who had not helped plan the trip or learn about the destination and thus had nothing invested emotionally in it. <BR> <BR>Perhaps I should boil things down for them a bit. So rather than ask, "What do you want to do?", I'll say, "Paris has X big things to do. This is what they involve and why they are significant. What do you want to do?" Am I the only one who has dealt with this, or do other people just leave their parents alone? <BR> <BR>Thanks for your thoughtful input.

merriem

Hey wait a minute! They are 60ish, and we are talking about OLD.....They are just, or should be getting good. Frankly, if they have never traveled, it would be normal to have some second thoughts, and frankly be nervous. It is out of their "comfort zone", and that really bothers some people. But, it's no reason for them to not enjoy themselves. We are 55 and 58, and travel all the time, but when we went to Australia, even I was a little nervous about being so far away from home, and the long flight. (It didn't last too long)...Maybe when you get there, they will meet some of the others on the tour and find that they are finding a lot in common with others. <BR>Again, I just think it is a change in lifestyle......maybe they will like it, and if not....you tried. Don't give up. My husband, years ago, we had a bad cruise.....and said he wouldn't go again. So I went twice with friends, and then said "if you will just go this time, and don't like it, I will never ask you to go again".....Well, that was MANY cruises ago. Everything will be okay.

homes

I think the key would be to get your parents seats in business class. The easiest way to get your trip off to a bad start is by getting them squeezed into a seat in sardine class with the person in front reclining into their faces. <BR> <BR>I just travelled on a British Airways flight where an elderly couple were seated in a row without windows. The lady then complained (correctly) that she had asked to reserve a window seat and been assigned to a seat without a window to her right (just wall). <BR> <BR>In other words, a flight where they are treated with dignity will go a long way in starting them off positive in countries where reactions to tourists are not always warm. <BR> <BR>Good luck.

Bob Brown

Well, I am 67 and from the age point of view I can take the old folks side of this discussion. Frankly, if my son wanted to take me off on a trip and I didn't want to go, I would not go -- period. But two things in my case are true. 1. I don't need to be taken because I can go quite well on my on, and 2. I am not sure my 40 year old son would start hauling me about in the first place. <BR>If the parents really do not want to go, and taking them would upset their serenity too badly, don't do it. <BR>The benefits of travel accrue only to those who want them. <BR> <BR>My wife's mom at 80 decided she wanted to go on a European trip with a tour group sponsored by her church, so off she went, without even asking our permission!! So if us old folks want to travel, leave us alone and we will do it. And if we don't want to travel, then leave us alone anyhow. We may travel in body if coerced, but we will not be travelling in spirit. <BR> <BR>These discussions remind me of the time I was in Yellowstone waiting for Grand Geyser to erupt when a man came along with 4 people in tow. Two were girls about 16 and two were probably his parents, based on facial resemblance. The man wanted to wait for Grand Geyser to erupt. The window of time for the event is about 4 hours, so those of us who really want to see it come prepared with food, water, reading material, post cards to write, etc. <BR> <BR>I can think of no more thrilling sight in Yellowstone than watching Grand Geyser shoot up 300 feet into the air, but the girls were complaining so about watching those dumb muddy geysers, and the parents were complaining about their aches and pains, that it was unpleasent for all within hearing range. Finally the man gave in to the complaining and left about 15 minutes before Grand did its thing. He should have left the complainers parked at a TV set. It would have saved a bundle of money and it would have given him a chance to enjoy the sights and sounds of a great national park.

Ed

To be trite, I think you've led the horse to water. As they say, you can do that, but not make him drink. <BR> <BR>Sounds like you've made all the right suggestions. Perhaps the only thing you've not done is give them the chance to opt out. <BR> <BR>There's a small chance they'll end up having a delightful time and you'll be hard pressed to keep them home in the future. <BR> <BR>Unfortunately, there's a bigger chance, given your description, that they'll have a miserable time ... and quite possibly make everyone else miserable. <BR> <BR>I think you've done the right thing in &gt;trying&lt; to get them to travel. You've been absolutely right in trying to get them to study ahead of time and take an active part in deciding how they'll spend their time. Those are the secrets to a successful trip. <BR> <BR>Beyond &gt;suggesting&lt; that, it's really up to them. They're adults. If they continue to take no interest in the trip I'd make sure they know they can gracefully bow out. Better that than spoiling the trip for eve

wes fowler

Sarah, <BR>Like Bob Brown, I too am 67 and have been to Europe any number of times; six times in the last decade alone. Bob has, with infinite wisdom stated a gem: "The benefits of travel accrue only to those who want them". I think you're headed for disaster!. Your parents'lack of interest in museums, "old buildings", different food, flying and the delights of strolling about make me wonder what they may be interested in and what they'll find of interest in Europe. Two weeks on a hosted tour starting with cramped seating in a chartered plane or commercial economy class will hardly be enticing; packing and unpacking every other night or so, with luggage placed in the hotel corridor by 6:30, breakfast at 7:00, on the bus at 7:30 does not seem to be something that is going to leave lasting pleasurable memories with your parents. I would anticipate resentment on their part, for their discomfort, the horrendous expense and your judgement in "forcing" them to live in a strange and what will no doubt prove to be threatening, foreign and discomforting environment. I think you need to have a heart to heart talk with them and give them every opportunity to opt out. I think, otherwise, you're looking at the prospects of two miserable weeks with a flock of miserable people including you, your siblings, your parents and the other members of your tour. <BR> <BR>Having said that, if you do go forward with your plans and do expose your parents to the delights of Europe, I would hope you'll come back to the forum and share your experiences with us whatever they may be.

an

For quite many people, it is difficult to make decision on what to see. Perhaps for fear of being accountable for making that decision, something better might come up at last minutes, etc. <BR> <BR>My wife and I have taken parents not to Europe, but to Hawaii recently. Even though it was somewhere they always wanted to go, just like your parents, to the question where do you want to go? We got "don't know, you decide." <BR> <BR>We thought about going to Europe, but we scratched out quickly since we have observed that they only like to go to familiar restaurants and eating familiar dishes. <BR> <BR>While I have seen our children liking food and places they previously said not interested, we have not seen this happen with our parents. We resolved that it would be a wishful thinking. <BR> <BR>We suspected, although they never said anything about it, the reason they go to trips with their friend is not primarily the destination or to experience something different, but to talk about their gardens at home, dishes they made, basket ball games, their college football team with their friends. So during our trip to Hawaii we went along with that and not expected them to enojoy the beautiful scenary and beaches that just go by in front of their eyes as they talk about their flower gardens at home. <BR> <BR>Was is pathetic? Perhaps, but we realized we ourselves have to adjust to their style of travelling if we were to make this cross generation trip something enjoyable. <BR> <BR>If you still are going, I would recommend making up the itenerary yourself, making ajustment in amount of walk, places to eat, etc to what they are capable of. If your parents are afraid of being made accountable for changing itenerary to fit their need, they would be uncomfortable to say for example, that would be too much walk for us, even that would be the case. Obviously I am assuming alot about your parents, but these are kind of adjustments we had to make based on unspoken words. <BR> <BR>Several get togethers after the trip seem to confirm that they enjoyed the trip although they don't remember hardly anthing about the trip. But we already knew that would be the case. We all enjoyed being together, wherever that turned out to be.

Sarah

All, <BR> <BR>Just to clarify. It isn't one of those godawful escorted bus trips. I thought the pace of those bus trips would be to superficial (we really would be just driving around looking at a lot of old buildings), exhausting and scripted, so I never proposed it. Our deal is a "hosted" trip, meaning a package of air and hotel, but with things like airport transfers included. We have to decide what we want to see, which is why we have the dilemma about what to see. I'll report back and let you know how it went. We've all travelled successfully together before, so I'll just have to relax and have faith. <BR> <BR>Once again, thank you all. Nicest bunch of posters I've seen in a while on this forum. You're great!

s.fowler

I've been reading this thread with interest. As a relative "baby" [just turned 58] and experienced traveler I have a couple of commetns to make. [Which I hope will be as respectful as those above]. <BR> <BR>First: I wouldn't worry about their "lack of interest" - you may be projecting the way you prefer to travel - or the way some people on this forum do -- onto your parents. For example - I'm one of those who NEVER takes one of those "audio tour" things. I prefer to see things without some voice telling me what to think. Maybe I miss some important information, but I prefer my experience unmediated and under MY control Lack of information hasn't killed me yet Let them prepare for the trip in their own way. <BR> <BR>And don't "borrow trouble" on the we-must-all-stick-together thing. At the risk of practcing without a shingle - I'd say you are projecting what you think THEIR fears are. I think if you relax a bit here and let them set the pace it will go fine What is being said now and what the trip actually IS will be different. So they don't spend 8 hours in the Louvre... So they don't walk much..... still *everywhere* in Paris is... PARIS! And if they miss all the details...... well at least they did it! And the BEST thing to do in Paris is to sit a lot -- in cafes

mary

hi sarah, <BR>i just got back fromparis with my dad who is 70. all the things your folks are saying he said to me. i started dreading the trip. but it was great. he raved about the food, the monuments,he did not like the metro and he could not walk all over every day. but hey he's 70. i let him set the pace and when we got in each others' hair that's the day i dropped him off at the louvre where he had a very nice time while i got to do my thing. so as a previous poster wrote, do it so you don't wonder what if.. <BR>i too gave him books to read which he did at the last minute. now he wants to look at them again and wants to know when we can return. go have fun you might be surprised.

merriem

Could this whole thing be "making a big deal of out nothing".....I wonder. Our best trips were just the two of us. However a year ago we went to Amsterdam with our 24 year old daughter. Although we enjoyed her company, three is a crowd. Just go, see what happens, and don't worry so much. It is only one trip, and if they hate it, you can always let them go to Branson next time. (alone, I hope!) Have a nice trip.

Al

OK, kids, listen up. We're in our mid-70s and so know a thing or two about traveling with the elderly---us. All posters above have good ideas to offer. And we suspect most are correct. Give Mom and Dad some slack. The idea of having them make the flight over in comfort sounds great---if they want to. Maybe they WANT to stick back in sweaty-class with their family. Ever think of that? Stop treating Mom and Dad like china dolls; they didn't survive without being just a bit tougher on the inside than you might suspect. Maybe one day on your trip they will tell you that their feet hurt, and they want to just stay put for a while. OK, so let them. My mother, more than 30 years ago, wanted to sit in the Paris hotel lobby and talk about soap operas, so my Dad took off and saw the Louvre on his own. Think of what she missed! And think how much more he enjoyed the Louvre without her constant whining! Consult with your parents, then LEAD. Don't PUSH. Your hosted tour plan sounds ideal. Great for relaxed pacing. <BR>Stop worrying. All will be well in the end. Most important, HAVE FUN. Older folks sense when they are being patronized (now, nobody said you were doing that!), so just give them some slack. After all, they raised you and didn't do a bad job, did they? Treat them as partners. And don't let a few sighs and moans rain on YOUR parade.

lola

Sarah- It may or may not work out for the trip, but whatever happens the main thing is that you sound like one terrific daughter, and that lasts a lifetime.

Cass

Sarah, I'll join with others urging you to relax and let it be. Just build in plenty of unscheduled leisure time (for naps, etc.) and be flexible. They sound like they don't want to plan anything until they've seen the lay of things. I'd consider setting aside an hour or two at the beginning of each trip (maybe after the half-day city tours) to sit down together to make up a list of must-sees and you-go-and-we'll-stay-here activities. Also tell them all the cities have grocery shops, and they can augment or substitute if the meals are getting to be a problem (which they won't). <BR> <BR>Have you ever had someone hover over you while you tried to read a menu and make up your mind -- saying helpful things like "you'd like that? you want that? How 'bout this?" It drives you nuts. Their anxieties are completely normal, but trying to force them to convince YOU about their pleasures and choices is probably not helping. Reverse the roles in your mind and you'll see what I mean. They'll be fine. You'll be fine. Just back off a little.