Taking my great-auntie and mother to Paris, Lourdes, Nice and Rome
Jul 31st, 2012, 04:34 PM
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Taking my great-auntie and mother to Paris, Lourdes, Nice and Rome
Hello fellow travelers,
My 88 year old (very active) great-auntie requested a trip to see Notre Dame, Lourdes and the Vatican. My mother and auntie are coming along as well - it will be a group of 4 women of mostly older ages. We will be in Europe from Tue, 9/4 to Sat, 9/15.
Researching the train schedules from Paris to Lourdes, Gare Monparnasse has a train leaving at 8:30 AM which works with our tight schedule. I'd like to keep us close to the station so it's easier on the departure day.
The budget for this trip is fairly tight, so I'm investigating apartment rentals. Appreciate your thoughts in Paris and the other cities.
travel on~
Many, many thanks!
My 88 year old (very active) great-auntie requested a trip to see Notre Dame, Lourdes and the Vatican. My mother and auntie are coming along as well - it will be a group of 4 women of mostly older ages. We will be in Europe from Tue, 9/4 to Sat, 9/15.
Researching the train schedules from Paris to Lourdes, Gare Monparnasse has a train leaving at 8:30 AM which works with our tight schedule. I'd like to keep us close to the station so it's easier on the departure day.
The budget for this trip is fairly tight, so I'm investigating apartment rentals. Appreciate your thoughts in Paris and the other cities.
travel on~
Many, many thanks!
Jul 31st, 2012, 05:21 PM
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How are you getting from Lourdes to Rome? Your great-auntie may be "very active," but this is stretching it even for younger folks.
Do you have open-jaw tickets?
I take it there's a religious theme here. Why not just go to Rome and see all the wonderful religious attractions there? Lourdes IMO is a nightmare, a kind of freakish place. If you are deeply religious and have some incurable disease, I guess I can understand it, but as a venue, it is Disneyesque. My then 80-something-year-old mother dragged my dad to Lourdes a decade ago, insisted on buying gallons of the water, fell on the steps to the church in a rainstorm, and ended up having to be evacuated by emergency services back to the States to have hip surgery. She wasn't too keen on god for a few months after that.
You're planning too much for 10 days.
Do you have open-jaw tickets?
I take it there's a religious theme here. Why not just go to Rome and see all the wonderful religious attractions there? Lourdes IMO is a nightmare, a kind of freakish place. If you are deeply religious and have some incurable disease, I guess I can understand it, but as a venue, it is Disneyesque. My then 80-something-year-old mother dragged my dad to Lourdes a decade ago, insisted on buying gallons of the water, fell on the steps to the church in a rainstorm, and ended up having to be evacuated by emergency services back to the States to have hip surgery. She wasn't too keen on god for a few months after that.
You're planning too much for 10 days.
Jul 31st, 2012, 07:12 PM
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I assume that religion is important. Fly into Bordeaux and a few hours to get to Lourdes on the same day (I am assuming an overnight flight). Return to Bordeaux by train (3 hrs. ride) and take Ryanair to Rome. Leave Europe from Rome.
http://www.flylc.com/directall-en.asp
http://www.flylc.com/directall-en.asp
Jul 31st, 2012, 08:22 PM
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I checked My Paris Visit and they have a few 2 bedroom apartments available beginning September 4th. You might want to check them out: http://www.myparisvisit.com/
It looks like there are a couple 2 bedroom apartments available at Rome Capital Apartments: http://www.romecapitalapartments.com/
We are using both of these agencies for our visit next month. We've rented from My Paris Visit previously and were happy with them; this is our first time rental with Rome Capital Apartments.
My husband and I visited Lourdes a few years ago. I had always wanted to go there and I'm glad we did. It probably wasn't the reverent atmosphere I had imagined, but I am still glad we went.
I agree with the others that Nice is probably best left to a future visit. You will be plenty busy with Paris, Lourdes and Rome.
It looks like there are a couple 2 bedroom apartments available at Rome Capital Apartments: http://www.romecapitalapartments.com/
We are using both of these agencies for our visit next month. We've rented from My Paris Visit previously and were happy with them; this is our first time rental with Rome Capital Apartments.
My husband and I visited Lourdes a few years ago. I had always wanted to go there and I'm glad we did. It probably wasn't the reverent atmosphere I had imagined, but I am still glad we went.
I agree with the others that Nice is probably best left to a future visit. You will be plenty busy with Paris, Lourdes and Rome.
Aug 1st, 2012, 09:57 AM
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I don't think the aunt opinions as to the merit of these spots, they were chosen for religious reasons, I suppose, and maybe they are thinking it will be a lifelong dream for the auntie and perhaps her last big trip (it probably will be given the itinerary). There is reality. But Notre Dame is kind of an odd thing to throw in as it's just a cathedral and there are plenty of them around in all kinds of cities.
I think if this is a real serious plan, some budeting will have to be disregarded in order to get places within such a short time period. That would mean flying to get to Rome (from Toulouse, for example). You can get Easyjet flights from TLS to FCO for less than 50 euro, they have flights every other day or so.
This company does private transers from Lourdes to TLS< for example for 233 euro for four people. That seems convenient and not too bad if from Lourdes hotel to TLS, 60 euro per person and will make it easy. It is almost 200 km, after all. that's the problem with Lourdes, it isn't near any major airport. http://www.guidoon.com
There are probably other methods, but Lourdes makes this trip difficult, at least time-consuming, due to its location. Ryanair does flight from Lourdes airport to Milan, though. I'd rather do a private van to TLS and fly to Rome myself.
I think if this is a real serious plan, some budeting will have to be disregarded in order to get places within such a short time period. That would mean flying to get to Rome (from Toulouse, for example). You can get Easyjet flights from TLS to FCO for less than 50 euro, they have flights every other day or so.
This company does private transers from Lourdes to TLS< for example for 233 euro for four people. That seems convenient and not too bad if from Lourdes hotel to TLS, 60 euro per person and will make it easy. It is almost 200 km, after all. that's the problem with Lourdes, it isn't near any major airport. http://www.guidoon.com
There are probably other methods, but Lourdes makes this trip difficult, at least time-consuming, due to its location. Ryanair does flight from Lourdes airport to Milan, though. I'd rather do a private van to TLS and fly to Rome myself.
Aug 1st, 2012, 12:31 PM
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1. The cheapest way of getting from Lourdes to Rome is the train (see www.bahn.de for details) to Toulouse, then the Easyjet plane, though that's probably much the same cost as Ryanair from Lourdes to Bergamo (NOT Milan), then: well there isn't an easy way to Rome, but Bergamo's the birthplace of John XXIII so they might rather enjoy that. Since these don't run every day, you need to start by working out the cost and practicalities of that bit. There's no other easily accessible airport with flights to Rome, though it might be possible (and cheaper than the alternatives) to fly Ryanair from Lourdes to London Stansted, then connect to a flight to Rome there. There are also occasional connections (though at a considerable price) throgh Paris Orly and Barcelona (http://www.tlp.aeroport.fr/tarbes-lourdes.pdf)
2. Next, work out how long your two want to stay in Lourdes. Ignore the carping claptrap: my atheist wife thought is the most spectacular sight she'd ever seen of altruism on an epic scale, and it really is worth taking the time to just wander round watching the love shown by the brancardiers (and brancardieres), and the thousands of other helpers (who've paid just to come and be useful) in addition to the semi-mandatory time for processions, Masses and visits to the better known spots. Given your timetable, being precise about time allocation is important.
3. Next, decide what you actually want to see in mRome. This is a terrible place for you to seek advice: it's possible to spend years in Rome and just scratch its surface, and most posters here are better on the city's sites of artistic and political interest than on its pilgrimage places. So, to be honest, are most guide books - and you'll probably get better advice on what to prioritise there from their parish priests and local nuns than from sites like this.
Personally, for a pilgrimage, I'd put these experiences top:
- St Peter's and the excavations underneath it widely thought (though the Church won't take a position on this) to be the tomb of St Peter. I'd ignore the Vatican museums and the Sistine Chapel unless there's something there they really want to see.
- an audience with the Pope
- the catacombs of St Sebastian, and their "footprint" stone
- the catacombs of St Callistus
- the major basilicas: St John Lateran, St Paul's Outside the Walls and (imho the best) Santa Maria Maggiore
- the view of St Peter's from the Embassy of the Knights of Malta at the top of the Aventine Hill and, if decent liturgical singing is uncommon where you live, sung Mass at the nearby Santa Sabina or St Anselm. If you're used to decent singing, Italian attempts are generally disappointing.
But you'll eventually have your own preferences.
4. Having worked out the minimum possible time for doing what you want to do in Lourdes and Rome, and the travel between them and Paris, decide how long's left and what to do with it. I agree with everyone else that Nice is completely out of the way. If you just want a day or two of not running around, I'd have thought there must be a Pyrannean mountain hotel near Lourdes. Google the Lourdes or Tarbes tourist people: the term "syndicat d'initiative" with the town name is a useful way to start googling). Lourdes is immensely busy (the kind explanation for why so many people profess to loathe it): the second most visited town in France. But it's astonishing how quiet and rural the mountains feel after just a 10 min drive from the Grotto compound
5. Personally I'd spend extra time in Rome (I've been going there for just a tad under 50 years, and still find new things). I'd be wary of Notre Dame: pilgrims to Lourdes, St Peter's and the other Roman basilicas treat the churches with respect and impose relatively good behaviour on others there, but Notre Dame is often overrun by tourists (from their languages, often almost certainly nominally Catholic) with no apparent sensitivity to what a church is, and your mother and auntie might be horrified (tough) and (far worse) genuinely upset.
Good luck
2. Next, work out how long your two want to stay in Lourdes. Ignore the carping claptrap: my atheist wife thought is the most spectacular sight she'd ever seen of altruism on an epic scale, and it really is worth taking the time to just wander round watching the love shown by the brancardiers (and brancardieres), and the thousands of other helpers (who've paid just to come and be useful) in addition to the semi-mandatory time for processions, Masses and visits to the better known spots. Given your timetable, being precise about time allocation is important.
3. Next, decide what you actually want to see in mRome. This is a terrible place for you to seek advice: it's possible to spend years in Rome and just scratch its surface, and most posters here are better on the city's sites of artistic and political interest than on its pilgrimage places. So, to be honest, are most guide books - and you'll probably get better advice on what to prioritise there from their parish priests and local nuns than from sites like this.
Personally, for a pilgrimage, I'd put these experiences top:
- St Peter's and the excavations underneath it widely thought (though the Church won't take a position on this) to be the tomb of St Peter. I'd ignore the Vatican museums and the Sistine Chapel unless there's something there they really want to see.
- an audience with the Pope
- the catacombs of St Sebastian, and their "footprint" stone
- the catacombs of St Callistus
- the major basilicas: St John Lateran, St Paul's Outside the Walls and (imho the best) Santa Maria Maggiore
- the view of St Peter's from the Embassy of the Knights of Malta at the top of the Aventine Hill and, if decent liturgical singing is uncommon where you live, sung Mass at the nearby Santa Sabina or St Anselm. If you're used to decent singing, Italian attempts are generally disappointing.
But you'll eventually have your own preferences.
4. Having worked out the minimum possible time for doing what you want to do in Lourdes and Rome, and the travel between them and Paris, decide how long's left and what to do with it. I agree with everyone else that Nice is completely out of the way. If you just want a day or two of not running around, I'd have thought there must be a Pyrannean mountain hotel near Lourdes. Google the Lourdes or Tarbes tourist people: the term "syndicat d'initiative" with the town name is a useful way to start googling). Lourdes is immensely busy (the kind explanation for why so many people profess to loathe it): the second most visited town in France. But it's astonishing how quiet and rural the mountains feel after just a 10 min drive from the Grotto compound
5. Personally I'd spend extra time in Rome (I've been going there for just a tad under 50 years, and still find new things). I'd be wary of Notre Dame: pilgrims to Lourdes, St Peter's and the other Roman basilicas treat the churches with respect and impose relatively good behaviour on others there, but Notre Dame is often overrun by tourists (from their languages, often almost certainly nominally Catholic) with no apparent sensitivity to what a church is, and your mother and auntie might be horrified (tough) and (far worse) genuinely upset.
Good luck
Aug 1st, 2012, 02:20 PM
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For trains from Lourdes to Bordeaux, www.bahn.de
Aug 2nd, 2012, 11:31 AM
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Thank you, everyone, for your generous and thoughtful replies! I've struggled with this schedule and agree there isn't much time for exploration or in-depth purpose except to gloss over "postcard" highlights. I will take the elegance of your input and revisit this itinerary as I am concerned there's too much unbridled enthusiasm in play. More to come.
Thank you again!!
Thank you again!!
Aug 2nd, 2012, 11:40 AM
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For trains from Lourdes to Bordeaux, www.bahn.de>
German Rail site if OK but you really want to go to www.voyages-sncf.com and also see what the various fares are - there used to be an overnight train to Lourdes and there are special pilgrimmage overnight trains too I believe. But long train travel can be exhausting - if doing trains be sure to pay extra for first class where seats are much bigger and often half full IME especially first class for oldsters like flanner.uk and your mum and auntie.
Great sites for info on European trains - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.
If taking the train book online discounts at www.voyages-sncf.com but well in advance and non-changeable nor refundable I believe these limited in number and often hard to get in busy times tickets.
German Rail site if OK but you really want to go to www.voyages-sncf.com and also see what the various fares are - there used to be an overnight train to Lourdes and there are special pilgrimmage overnight trains too I believe. But long train travel can be exhausting - if doing trains be sure to pay extra for first class where seats are much bigger and often half full IME especially first class for oldsters like flanner.uk and your mum and auntie.
Great sites for info on European trains - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.
If taking the train book online discounts at www.voyages-sncf.com but well in advance and non-changeable nor refundable I believe these limited in number and often hard to get in busy times tickets.
