&lt;&lt;he is far from breing the brightest dear in the forest&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>ROFLMAO!!

How many adults who ever brought work with them to do on a holiday ever got much of it done? <BR><BR>Saying travel is a learning experience is all very well, but the learning experience may not correspond to the experience being missed. If I spend 3 weeks at tennis camp, I'll probably become a better tennis player, but that won't help me when I return to play baseball! <BR><BR>I'm amused at the idea that travel is like water; just go somewhere, and the knowledge will osmose into the brain. <BR><BR><BR>

Interesting thread, based quite frankly on an untrue premise:<BR><BR>...that "professional educators", whatever that means, know more about your child and what you should do in raising them than you, their parent know. Remember it is your child and you are responsible, not the teacher, not the school, not the NEA, not the government.<BR><BR>Once again, that is a false premise...you are responsible for your children and not the teacher or an underperforming public school (and quite frankly many are). <BR><BR>Remember, these "professional educators" are the very same people that believe they have accomplished much when the average HS graduate can pass a test designed for an eighth grade student. That is termed success!<BR><BR>If children are in a public school, it's generally because they have to be, or the parents haven't figured out how to send them to private church or secular schools where they get better results with less $$$.<BR><BR>Now your child, may miss three weeks, but that is your decision and not the school system or the teachers. As far as inconveniencing the teacher...they work for you and your student. If they are dedicated, as we're so often told they are by the NEA, then they will work with you. If not, you're probably working with one of the many that choose teaching because there is little performance grading and ressure and they get tenure and a lot of time off.<BR><BR>I suggest you take the children and go for it...after all, they're only missing the get your head back to learning time anyway.<BR><BR>US

"They work for you"? Personal servant, Uncle Sam? On-call 24 hours to day to take care of priveleged brats who can't bother to do homework?<BR><BR>Mmmmmmmn.....no, I don't think so.

How interesting that this thread has turned into a debate on whether or not to take kids out of school for travel. Since I opened this can of worms I will clarify a few things: For those who are rigid enough to proclaim that travel only be accomplished at the school district's convenience, I would like to gently suggest that there are some fields, such as my own, where a large exodus of workers at any one time, such as during the summertime and holidays, results in significant harm to the public and therefore the number of us who can be absent at once is strictly limited. Most of us do not enjoy the luxury of vacation time in the summer or during school holidays. Heck, we don't even have weekends off for the first twenty years of employment. <BR> As for the importance of travel relative to staying in the classroom, I have lived long enough in the world to know that the "book learning" that stays with you is the learning that is reinforced viscerally. How can you truly understand why language is important, and what it's like for your friend who's struggling to learn English as you are struggling to learn French, until you've experienced the humiliation of asking where the bathroom is in a French cafe, only to be greeted with laughter and derision?<BR> I could give a hoot about "getting into top colleges"--I went to one myself and some of the most miserable SOBs who walk the planet are distinguished grads of that school. Too often educators fail to distinguish between achievement--reaching externally established goals--and accomplishment. I want to raise accomplished children, not high achievers.<BR> I am ultimately responsible for my children's education, and what I want my kids to learn is that the kid in the bus that gets blown up had a mother and a father and brothers and sisters just like they do, that political boundaries are sometimes formed by geography but more often by human minds, and that mathematics, literacy and religious scholarship, if not accompanied by tolerance, compassion, and the understanding that we have only one planet and we're all on it together, can be weapons as deadly as any bomb.<BR> Of course there are trade-offs. Taking a child out of the classroom is not something I do lightly, or on a whim. If I did not think that what is to be gained is not greater than what is to be missed, I would not do it. I do not expect extra work out of my kids' teachers, and in fact it is for that very reason that I posted this query. If I am taking kids out of the classroom, it's my responsibility to see that they learn the information the teacher would have taught them while we're gone. To those who have offered suggestions on how best to accomplish this task, again, I thank you very, very much.<BR> Okay, I'm down off my soapbox now. Let the firing commence.

Beeper..I totally agree with you. It is the parent's choice. And if you work WITH the school as I and others remarked there should be no issue. <BR><BR>As far as ZYB's idiotic response about my son's school all I have to say is that his school was one of three schools in my city that rec'd exemplary marks (public schools included). Plus they take fewer days off than the public schools. Back off if you don't know what you're talking about.

beeper<BR><BR>I went to Ireland in October of last year with my husband and our 2 year old. Luckily we arranged for my mother to stay at the house so that our older children [elementry] could attend school. <BR><BR>I'm not saying its dead wrong for you to want to bring your children along, but I'm afraid you are creating a terrible hardship for your high-school and junior high aged children. I'm not so old that I cant remember how much material is covered in a 3 week period. Is that what you want for your kids? Are you willing to risk them lower scores on testing and overall achievment? I suppose this puts you on the spot as much as your children when the report cards come out.<BR><BR>There is definitely something to be said for summer break [thats what its there for] and vacation time. Duh?

I would also like to add that we would not have gone on our trip if we hadnt been fortunate enough to have someone who would watch our children while in school. <BR><BR>We are planning a 2 week trip to Italy in April and are going to make arrangements with relatives and babysitters for all 3 children this time. <BR><BR>Its not too late to change your mind. Mabye if you start looking now, you can make arrangements for your children while you are gone. There will always be other times, hopefully during a regular break if you plan it out.

Okay, Anne, I'll make you a deal: I'll take my vacation in the summer if you'll stop having sex in the fall. :)

Please explain how a week in London and a week in Paris will help teach a kid "that the kid in the bus that gets blown up had a mother and a father and brothers and sisters" or any of that other stuff about tolerance and compassion. Perhaps the kid would be better off doing volunteer work with immigrants here, but of course that wouldn't be as much fun.<BR><BR>Actually,I wonder what makes beeper such an expert on the necessity of going abroad if, as the original post says, this is his or her first time out of the country.<BR><BR>And beeper didn't even get a weekend off during 20 years of work??<BR><BR>Something doesn't add up here.

Sounds like beeper might be a housewife and mother---20 years without even weekends off. She needs a vacation.

Some co-workers of mine took their 13 year old son to London last year with many of these same justifications I see listed here. Apparently, "Johnny" found places such as Westminster Abbey and Tower of London to be too boring, so the family spent most of their time at "educational" locations such as Hard Rock Cafe and Madame Tussaud's. Does anyone really think kids are somehow absorbing history and learning just because they're there?

How many actual schooldays will your high schooler miss? Homework is only one issue and it's the easiest to deal with. You have no experience of having a child at the high school level. It's quite different to elementary and middle school. Moving into 9th grade (and 6th grade) is one of the biggest changes a kid makes at school. They move into a bigger environment, more classroom changes than before, usually many more students than before. It takes them several weeks to get used to it all and, just when your student will be beginning to feel "at home", you'll be taking him/her out and he/she will be set back. Also, a lot of high school grades come from regular, weekly testing and from classroom work and participation. If your student is not there, none of that can happen. Many classes, and especially science, have students working in groups. After three weeks your student will be in one or more groups, whose other members will suffer because of your students abscence.Is your student involved in extra-curricular activities like sports, clubs, etc? These are things to encourage in high school.<BR><BR>Sam, public schools are not all bad, the ones my kids go to are excellent. In just the same way, private/parochial schools are not all good. One of the things that differentiates between good and not-so-good schools is the amount of parent involvement. Almost without exception, schools with high parent involvement and support are very good.

Beeper,<BR><BR>I'd suggest that you are not going to satisfy many of the unrealistic, idealistic folks on this thread.<BR><BR>Suggest you tell them all to take a long walk on a short pier and run their own kids lives. <BR><BR>The ones you have are yours, and quite frankly 90% of the people that are critical of you for how you are raising yours, probably have or are screwing up with their own!<BR><BR>They sound good, but I'll bet if you look below the veneer some of these folks have some screwed up kids, and thse folks may not even know it because they're too busy putting on the appropriate image and airs.<BR><BR>US

Uncle Sam, first you said this:<BR><BR>You make the decion and you live with it...you know what is best for your child, not some "profesional educator"!<BR><BR>Now you're saying that 90% of the parents who disagree with you on school-time vacations are screwing up their kids.<BR><BR>So which is it, do parents always know best or not?

LOL beeper, Obviously you knew you were going to get into some controversy here.<BR>I think everyone here agrees, travel is educational (or can be).<BR>I really got to say, though, your last post sounded like a lot of self justification. You are not so different than any of the rest of us that have had to work full time and raise children. Most of have put off luxuries like travel until the timing/situation was right. You've decided to go.....then go but I'll ask again, whose best interest are you looking out for???

It cracks me up when the same people who complain about having to pay taxes are the same who bitch and moan about how bad the public schools are.

I don't know how relevant this is, but I'll add my 2 cents worth. <BR>The summer before my junior year in high school I signed up for a 6 week summer school class "American History". It was designed to fulfill the full year American History requirement that all Wisconsin high school students had to have. I wanted to take orchestra, band and choir during the regular school year instead of spending one hour/day in history class. Granted I was motivated and an "A" student, but my summer school teacher allowed me to miss 2 weeks to go on vacation with my family. I had to do all the homework (which is alot during the condensed summer school session!) and take all of the tests when I got back, but I did it. I actually got an "A" for the summer session. I remember being totally thrilled that I took a full year's worth of American History in 30 days of summer school and passed with an "A". Was it worth the extra work during vacation? Yes. Did I feel sorry for myself when my family was out at the hotel pool while I was slogging away reading some boring history book? Yes. But it was worth it. I guess it depends on the student, but if you get the OK of the instructors AND make it clear to your child that homework WILL BE DONE and stick to it, you should be OK. Paris & London are pretty special - a real cultural treat that is difficult to capture in a classroom setting.<BR>Good luck!

ttt

Anne - I'm curious as to what vacations you take with your kids. You've mentioned two European vacations without the kids - for weeks at a time. I'm not saying you should always bring your kids along, and certainly teenagers would probably be glad to have the free time, but you mentioned you have a two year old. I don't want to judge, but it seems like a lot of time away from young children. What is that telling them?