Taking children to Europe
 

As a teacher of grades 3,4,5 for almost 9 years now, I have to comment about all the kids I have taught who have travelled to Europe and elsewhere abroad. (Although 30 and childless so far by choice), I am in awe of all of you parents who haven't stopped travelling just because you have kids! So many of my younger friends never leave the house with their kids except for the dream trip to Disney. I have argued with them that once they're 6 and older, they SHOULD go abroad. I can always spot the kids who have seen other parts of the world! They have a better background knowledge, seem to be more mature socially, and usually can read and speak with advanced vocabulary. They all tell me that I won't take my kids anywhere when I actually step in their shoes, but many of your posts make me feel justified! What say you?

I agree 100%. Our family began hosting exchange students (from Germany) and adults (from Russia) several years ago. We observed that the Europeans were much more aware of world issues, and had an awareness of how the world is growing smaller which made them want to learn more about other parts of the world.

Before our first trip, I was leery but kept reminding myself that the Europeans travel from country to country with their children all the time. We have since taken our children, along with their friends and cousins, to Europe several times and feel like it is a wonderful extension of their education. They have loved everything about our trips. When special projects come up in class, they tend to reach into their European experiences for research topic - Pompeii, the Roman Empire, etc.

I will say that taking your children on these trips completely changes the dynamics of such a trip. My husband and I have joked that it's like being a traveling flea circus! This year, we went without the children but our oldest daughter, who just graduated from high school, went with two friends by themselves to London, Amsterdam and Rome for two weeks, staying in hostels. Her past experiences made her very confident that they could do it and they had a great time with no issues. The other two (ages 12 and 15) have said they would trade all Christmas presents this year for another trip next summer! I'm game for that!!

My homeschooling wife and I plan someday to send the kids and her to Europe for a month in the summer but I wonder at what age a child really can truly appreciate and learn from being immersed in another culture. At 13, I remember taking a school trip to Spain for two weeks but I don't think I learned very much. The best I can say is that it was good to have to converse in Spanish with actual Spaniards. Any comments by Fodor's posters are welcomed. Good question, Sue!

You are bound to get plenty of strong replies on this hot topic. Here's mine:

I don't think your general assertion holds water. Its a common, but false allusion. One or two short trips to Europe is not the prime driver behind a child with "better background knowledge, and who seems to be more mature socially, and usually can read and speak with advanced vocabulary."

I would be more inclined to agree with you if the child had actually lived overseas for an extended period(s) of time.



If you want to talk really broad generalization, then maybe the type child you describe has benefitted from higher income parents (who can afford to travel), who are well educated,and who place a higher emphasis learning; easpecially world events and geography within the home on a daily basis? Its the day-to-day environment and not the two week trip that produces a positve difference?

I personaaly don't think kids up to the age of ten (give or take a year or two for personal maturity) get a vast amount of long term benefit from overseas travel. And a poorly planned or executed trip might expose them to harmful stress, confusion and much disappointment.

As a European, I was fortunate enough to travel abroad regularly as a child (due to my father's work) and I can certainly say that the experiences were enriching, both socially, culturally and educationally. Indeed, I believe it's patronising to assume that a child under 10 is not capable of appreciating new experiences.

I can remember a holiday in Spain, aged 4, when my brother and I spent an entire week playing with 2 Spanish children. We spoke no Spanish, they spoke no English, and yet we had such fun together. A trip to Lake Garda and Venice, aged 7, has also remained lodged in my mind - feeding pigeons on St Marks square, climbing Monte Baldo with a Belgian family we'd met at our hotel, eating filete milanese and spaghetti al ragu at the same taverna every night. I still dream of returning to visit Lake Garda again!

My first trip to France, on my own, aged 14, was a real eye opener - staying with a French family for a month, my language skills improved vastly, and my appreciation for foreign cultures and food really began to take root.

I also travelled to the US with my family when I was 4, and again when aged 9, and spent several months there attending elementary school. The differences between Scottish and American schooling were extremely enlightening, and I remember my experiences vividly and treasure many of these memories. And I can still remember our trip to Colonial Williamsburg, the fall colours in Charlottesville where we were living, the warm rain and the water evaporating on the sidewalk (you don't see that in Scotland!!), the visit to Monticello, our Sunday drives through the Blue Ridge Mountains...

If a 9-year-old British girl can appreciate and treasure memories of a trip to the USA, I don't see why an American child of the same age wouldn't enjoy - and benefit from - a trip to Europe.

I belive traveling benefits a child. Our son has been to Europe twice: once when he was 10 and when he was 12. Although he was reluctant to go when he was 12 because of a typical pre-teen attitude of not having interest, we could tell that once he arrived in Europe, he really appreciated the time there.

I agree that a child of 6 and older will appreciate traveling abroad.

Also we are not rich parents. We have to plan for these trips as they are very expensive-especially flights from the west coast-so we have to put aside some funds to accomodate the trips. But it is always something we will do with our son.

Now I know this doesn't have much to do with traveling to Europe as a child. However it does have a lot to do with the assumption that the younger the children are the less enriching the experience will be for them.

I totally disagree. As a child my parents took me on vacation every year with them, many trips to Orlando to visit the Grandparents, camping and historical locations. As I grew up and now am a adult. Most of my memories about my childhood are strictly from those summer vacation experiences.

I think younger children might even take in more that a 14 year old. At 14 your more concerned with being cool. Younger children also tend to be more open and aware of thier surroundings.

Parents you know your kids,I'm sure you can make an appropriate decision. If not ask them you'd be suprised what they might want to do for vacation kids like t be part of the decision process it makes them feel important.

I have had the good fortune of having been raised in various world-wide locations (which is not without its downside but that's another conversation). I think the issue of when a child begins to "appreciate" being in another culture is an interesting one. Spending a few days in another country may not qualify as really "being" in another culture and the appreciation part may vary from child to child.
I think if there is any sort of advantage it may come from simply exposing the child to the realization that there are "other" cultures and there are people whose attitudes, values, and outlooks are different than those in the US. Tellinga child about it is one thing; actually seeing it can have far greater impact.
On a related note, I think there is a BIG difference between actually travelling with a child vs. adults dragging the moppet to places because they (the adults) enjoy this or that and simply assume that the child will also.

RE: hanl

"Indeed, I believe it's patronising to assume that a child under 10 is not capable of appreciating new experiences."

Nobody said they can not appreciate new experiences. The issue was if a couple of short overseas trips are the prime driver for 6 to 9 year old kids to " have better background knowledge, seem to be more mature socially, and usually can read and speak with advanced vocabulary."

I admire your amazing memory, but the vast majority of adults will not have vivid memories of a trip to europe when they were four years old.

Degas - sometimes it's hard not to generalise from one's own experiences (though I didn't realise I had an "amazing" memory - like Jibboo, most of my childhood memories are restricted to these trips abroad).

I suppose I was simply trying to respond to your statement that "I personaaly don't think kids up to the age of ten (give or take a year or two for personal maturity) get a vast amount of long term benefit from overseas travel." Perhaps kids don't all get a "vast amount" of benefit, but it's unlikely that they'd get none at all, and that to me is justification enough :)

As to the issue of better background knowledge, social maturity, etc., I guess the jury's still out on that one!! :?

To Degas who said that my "assertion does not hold water," I must respond:
I feel I can fairly compare nontravelers with the well-traveled students because I teach in a homogeneous, wealthy school community. The parents all have fantastic jobs in Chicago and live on million-dollar, northshore lakefront properties. They typically have master's degrees or above. I also taught in another area of the country in a similar community (yeah, I know, tough jobs). The kids (8+ years) who have been abroad frequently (not just Europe), or even have lived there, seem to be more mature socially. They're not usually the ones in the corner of the playground teasing others, they tend to read voraciously, and geography lessons, journal writing...etc. tend to be easier for them. For example, even my LD kid this year who could barely write, could read on a 10th grade level and decribe verbally his trips with his parents with vocabulary and memory which astounded me! I'm trying not to make generalizations, and I LOVE ALL of my kids, but I just have noticed this year after year.

RE: teachersue

Rest assured, I harbor no feelings that you do not love "your children" and don't want anything but the best for them. I was a teacher myself, even if it was a long time ago.

It looks to me like you make your case for overseas travel for 6 to 9 year olds more on hunch rather than careful or comprehensive study. I don't think you have also factored in the whole array of various that go into producing at a "superior" child such as you described in your orginal post.

I'd advise a family, if they wanted to get the most educational and personal growth from a 6 to 9 year old child, to use the $1500 or more it would cost for his/her portion of the trip Europe on a computer, more software, books or private tutoring.

Deep down, do you just want to travel with your kids and are looking for outside reinforcement of that idea?

Teachersue, I don't think that taking children abroad makes them more sophisticated; it's exposing them to experiences different than those they see every day.

My husband grew up in England, and he's the only one in his family who emigrated. Over the years we've gotten holiday postcards from his brother from wonderful places like Prague, the Azores, southern Italy, etc. I've always sputtered with jealousy that my BIL can take his kids all over Europe every year and we can't. My husband said that I shouldn't look at it that way, that Italy is as close to them as New England is for us. He pointed out that Europeans don't think of going to other European countries as any big deal--pleasant vacations, different foods for dinner, change in locale, etc. Sort of the same way that we Americans look at our American vacations. When I look at it that way, I see that my English niece vacationing in Madrid is no different than my Midwest daughter vacationing on the coast of Maine with her cousins!

The important point, in regard to children, is to bring them some place different and let them observe that not everyone leads lives similar to theirs. This can be a place 500 miles from their home or 5000.

Just as an aside, however--our eldest has no interest in travelling. I don't think any of our European trips have made an impression on him! His sister, however, was hooked from the earliest age. Her first visit to Italy with her grandmother, taken when she was twelve, stirred within her an amazing passion to travel. When you described students of yours who are well-traveled, and the attributes you see in them, well, you could have been describing our girl. But certainly not our boy!

RE: hanl

It is an interesting question about exactly what an adult remembers from his very early years (3 to 9?). I really do think you are blessed with much more recollection than most people. Did you have many pictures to reinforce the image?

Don't get me wrong about kids appreciating new experiences. Its just that I think a positve effect can also come from simple events and situations as well as grand ones. Sorta like the kids you see passing up the $300 cutting edge present and getting more excited about the balsa wood airplane.

To throw in my 2 Euro into this ...

I think I was lucky to have parents who travelled a lot in their 20s (and in fact met overseas). I caught my travel bug, not from being brought around Europe (although, I have visited a lot of places), but from looking at old photos and hearing stories like "oh that was the time we went to the pyramids and ..." or "let me tell you about the time your mother went to Paris and ..."

Maybe that is an element of what you have noticed, teachersue - the influence of a parents attitude to travel and the outside world influencing the child.

That said, I don't believe I would be the same person had my parents not brought me around Europe as a child (of course, living IN Europe was a help!). And, they wouldn't have quite so many entertaining stories to embarrass me with. And I know for certain, that my language abilities, my interest in history and my eventual career choice all stem from the travel, and talk of travel that were a part of my childhood.

And no. We weren't rich. My parents made a choice - we didn't get designer clothes, fancy toys or big parties - but we got 2 fantastic weeks each year when we could end up anywhere in Europe. And it was worth every second.

Incidentally - my first trip abroad was at the age of 4, when we went to Spain. At 5 we went to Yugoslavia - and I have vivid memories of a deep conversation about communism with the tour guide! (ok, so I was a bit ahead of myself!!)

I'm going to stop waffling now!

-- Viola

We travel a lot with our children. The atlas in our front hall is always turned to our next destination. My children are all pretty good students. But I think the fact they read better than most is because we don't own a television.

Traveling abroad with children is not relaxing but certainly worth it. We took our children when my youngest was 2 - she celebrated her 3rd birthday in Italy). She still remembers her "party" we had for her there and will say Italy is one of her favorite places! We are heading back this summer - my oldest is 14 and youngest is now 5 (again, celebrating her 6th birthday in Italy!) and they are looking forward to the trip as much if not more than my husband and I.

We've done Disney but there is no comparison to traveling abroad. Your children will remember their travels and the experiences will tremendously broaden their world.

go for it!

This post begs the question, does travel *really* broaden everyone's horizons, or *for some* is it a relatively cheap way to act superior to others?

Before everyone jumps down my throat, I love to travel, but let's face it, we all know someone who simply travels so he/she can drop "I just got back from Paris..." at cocktail parties.

Degas - we did have quite a lot of pictures from those early holidays, and my brother and I compiled scrapbooks of postcards, plane tickets, leaflets and other bits and pieces we'd collected along the way.
The trips were also something of a measuring stick (that was the year we went to Italy, that was after we came back from Ohio, etc). We often talked about our trips and one of my Dad's favourite talking points was "Where were we/what were we doing this time last week/month/year..."
I think the more you "revisit" your memories, the more vivid they remain ((r))

I have taken my children, now 13, 15, and 17 many times to Europe since they were small. I like to have them with me and can't imagine going and leaving them with babysitters...that said traveling with them is not always easy. We have though alot of shared memories of the things we have experienced. Going to europe has also made them appreciate living in the USA.

I am a statistician with some graduate work and academic publications in the fields of both demography and sociology and I agree with the comments from someone that your observations and conclusions are not valid. A lot of people confuse correlation with cause and effect if they are not trained in research methods. The children you think are superior in terms of behavior and knowledge could very well be that way regardless of their travels abroad IMO -- these attributes would come from their education, other opportunities, and most importantly parental education and environment.

I can understand parents wanting to take their kids on vacations with them, especially if they have a lot of money and can travel to Europe, but I find your proposition that parents "should" take kids abroad from a young age an elitest attitude, as well as your conclusions that these kids are better than others.

My parents were rather poor and never could have afforded a vacation abroad themselves, let alone take all us kids with them. I did not travel abroad until I was about 30 after I had enough money to take a vacation myself, since I had to pay off school loans and pay my own way through all higher education (which is another reason I don't find the posts about parents who let teenagers take expensive vacations to Europe and claim it's their own money very sympathetic as a lot of kids have to use their money for buying necessities, clothes, or tuition).

I traveled a lot as a child (military family) - abroad and in U.S. - and I think it helped create in me a deep sense of tolerance and openness to other people and cultures. But it wasn't just the fact of travel and exposure to different people and places, it was being raised in a family (and by parents) who imparted and supported those values. So, from my perspective, the chain is this: My parents loved to travel and meet new people; they carted me around almost everywhere they went (or tried to include me in other ways); my parents shared their curiosity and openness with me; I developed these values too, based on my parents as role models and my experiences traveling.

When I take my very young children with me to foreign places, I do not expect that they will have fond memories of running around in that little piazza in Tuscany, or of the rich taste of foie gras in the South of France. But by sharing these types of experiences with my kids, I am hoping to encourage in them the same tolerance, respect and curiosity that my parents fostered in me and my siblings.

And while such travel with young kids inevitably involves some "stress" on them and on me, I also think it valuable for my kids to see how their parents respond to these stresses. I think children and their parents can learn a lot about themselves and others by stepping outside their respective comfort zones. You're never too young (or old) to grow.

Degas--my motivation for writing this is, in part, to get a variety of opinions. I appreciate yours. My husband (32) and I (30) ARE putting off the baby plans because everyone keeps telling us to travel, travel, travel or else we'll never go anywhere else abroad until after retirement! It has spooked us. Neither one of us were fortunate enough to travel until college (on our own dimes). We want to be able to raise a child with a broadened world view. Experiences within other cultures do, as I've witnessed from my students, seem to enrich what kids learn in books.

For what its worth - we've taken our two children on vacations with us since they were born - some driving but mostly flying. Since my husband travels a lot, we use frequent flyer miles for the tickets when we can and plan a full year in advance to get the best deals. As a result, they've seen a lot of the US, Canada and Mexico. We took them to Europe for the first time last summer as teens and it was great - and I must say, it helped both of them in school this past year with ancient and european history as we were in Germany and Italy. We're taking them back next week for a 2 week trip to France - when asked for a second place to visit outside of Paris, both wanted to see Normandy - no hesitation at all. We've always treated them as young adults and expected good behavior regardless of where we've travelled. The wider their experience base, the better in our opinion; why have children if you just "leave them on the shelf" when you travel? Some of my best memories are seeing the wide eyes and most recently, my son asking if he could 'touch the colosseum' when we arrived!

RE: teachersue

Don't be spooked and don't hold off just to travel. You can do both. Its foolish to think you can't travel until you "retire"!

I'd be silly to tell you not to travel with kids. We lived on and off in Europe and Asia for 13 years and raised three healthy, well adjusted kids along the way. We took them on some trips and left then with trusted sitters or close friends (we watched thiers in return) on some trips. Did this while living in the states and when living in Europe. Felt that was the best of both worlds.

If I had to do it again, I'd not do a transatlanitc trip with a one, two or three year old, period. Too much stress and distraction. Many other people will condemn that approach.

I know first hand that being exposed to various cultures enhances what kids learn from books. However, a two week trip once a year is a plus, but not the make or break factor for advancing a kids overall education and maturity.

I'm 17 and am lucky to have travelled with my parents ever since I was only a few months old. Over the years I have travelled throughout Europe, have been to the USA/Canada several times, and last year I spent 2 months with an Australian family in North Queensland, as well as 2 weeks in New Zealand at a friend's place (without my parents). This particular last experience was perhaps the most significant and greatly helped me learn what it is like to live somewhere else, and do everyday things differently. I am very thankful to my parents, just going to places far away helps getting a general 'sense' of the world.
I do admit though that only since I was 14-15 or so I started to REALLY appreciate and savour everything I saw, but all these trips make for lots of nice memories, from walking down a narrow passageway in Cheop's pyramid to standing on top of the late Twin Towers in NYC.

I really appreciate the fact that they took me with them every time.
And what's more, I learned my English mostly by travelling, certainly not at school!;)

Federico
Venice,IT

Well, if you are a teacher then you have probably also seen kids who are very intelligent, well spoken, and socially mature who have never been out of the state and also brats that have been all over the world. Travel is not a causal factor, but an indicator of the family priorities. Eveything else is up to the parents and the child. Personally, I wouldn't take a child on a European vacation destined for art museums and such until and unless he can read and write. I still cringed thinking of the couple from California with a screaming three year-old`touring the Vatican Museums.

I kind of feel like I'm txtree's mother!

Kids learn in most any environment, and I think traveling with kids anywhere is good. You're in close quarters with one another, and learn more about how members of your family deal with various situations and interact with one another. You also learn to compromise. You learn to adapt and to understand that not everyone is exactly like you or lives like you do. It unshelters a child, if that's a word.

We usually take 3 mini trips a year within California; and a longer trip in summer, mixing Europe, the U.S., or Canada. It's a time when we can be together, and not blocked off from each other by work, school, t.v., video games, and the like.

I'll tell you a few things traveling to Europe has taught my son (he's 13 now): he's not afraid to try new foods, learn words in another language, and he knows his geography and monuments better than any kid in his class. He knows different currency and how to calculate in his head the conversion rate from foreign currency into dollars. He was able to tell me last year whether a Lego toy he wanted to buy in Copenhagen cost more or less than it did at his local toy store, including factoring in our local tax.

Also, I think seeing places and things is much more interesting to a kid than just reading about it.

I suspect that the kind of parents who take their children traveling are the kind who very much want to expose them to new ideas and develop in them a curiosity about and appreciation of new ideas and different ways of looking at things. There's probably a correlation between this approach and income/education, but I'm sure it's not perfect--the doctor who lives across the street from me takes his family to the same place for vacation every year.

My parents took my brother and me to Europe for a month when I was about 7 and he was about 5. We both have vivid memories of many parts of that trip. I think the key is not to drag the kids exclusively to things the parents want to see/do and include things the children will enjoy too. That may diminish the parents' experience (on our recent trip, we ate one lunch in Venice at a McDonald's instead of a really nice authentic place that I would have enjoyed more), but if you enjoy parenting it's all worthwhile.

For anyone hesitant about taking children along, there are plenty of books and resources on how to make the trips the best possible experience.