T5 goes pear-shaped
Mar 27th, 2008, 09:12 AM
#1
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Mar 27th, 2008, 10:06 AM
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The baggage system has basically gone kapult. BA canceling lots of flights as there's no way to get bags from check-in to planes and planes to baggage claims.
It's a disaster.
Now, we'll see if all the shuffling of airlines to their respective new terminals and new airlines/flights, starting in 2 days, will be a even bigger disaster.
It's a disaster.
Now, we'll see if all the shuffling of airlines to their respective new terminals and new airlines/flights, starting in 2 days, will be a even bigger disaster.
Mar 27th, 2008, 12:10 PM
#5
I love this story. What have they been doing in T5 for the last few months? Why was the testing of the baggage system so poor, and why if it was noticed, did they open the terminal?
They should execute those responsible, and put their severed heads on a baggage carousel for inconvenienced passengers to gawk at! (if they can find one that works)
They should execute those responsible, and put their severed heads on a baggage carousel for inconvenienced passengers to gawk at! (if they can find one that works)
Mar 27th, 2008, 12:50 PM
#6
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Calm down. It's just an opening day.
What matters isn't whether this terminal's first day is a cockup - though you do have to query the sanity of anyone flying through it on opening day. Haven't they heard of, for example, the spectacular screw-up Hong Kong managed for its first MONTH?
It's whether by May the place begins to behave like a civilised airport. Which - those of you with short memories may have forgotten - T4 managed after its first few weeks in 1986.
BA and BAA aren't there to provide one flawless day. Their job is to provide 99% consistency 366 dsays of a leap year.
After the chortlings over this ineptitude, let's leave the real judgements for a few weeks. But in the meantime: London has four other international airports and LHR has four other terminals.
What matters isn't whether this terminal's first day is a cockup - though you do have to query the sanity of anyone flying through it on opening day. Haven't they heard of, for example, the spectacular screw-up Hong Kong managed for its first MONTH?
It's whether by May the place begins to behave like a civilised airport. Which - those of you with short memories may have forgotten - T4 managed after its first few weeks in 1986.
BA and BAA aren't there to provide one flawless day. Their job is to provide 99% consistency 366 dsays of a leap year.
After the chortlings over this ineptitude, let's leave the real judgements for a few weeks. But in the meantime: London has four other international airports and LHR has four other terminals.
Mar 27th, 2008, 01:23 PM
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Question the sanity of those who fly though it on opening day?
Are you trying to blame the customer? Or why don't BA just don't operate on 3/27? Then everybody can fly through it on "the next day".
And let me start think about similarities between HKG and LHR T5... Hm...
Are you trying to blame the customer? Or why don't BA just don't operate on 3/27? Then everybody can fly through it on "the next day".
And let me start think about similarities between HKG and LHR T5... Hm...
Mar 27th, 2008, 01:37 PM
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If you're dumb enough to use an airport on its opening day, you've only got yourself to blame when (not if) it goes wrong.
Of course I'm blaming the customer. Unless they're more interested in five seconds on TV whingeing about their "ruined" day than getting where they want to be on time.
In which case, they got what they wanted, so what are they moaning about?
Of course I'm blaming the customer. Unless they're more interested in five seconds on TV whingeing about their "ruined" day than getting where they want to be on time.
In which case, they got what they wanted, so what are they moaning about?
Mar 27th, 2008, 02:25 PM
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Flanner it might be a little more correct to be more specific - you would have to be crazy to use a new airport in the UK on its first day.
It just wouldn't happen in Germany. Italy perhaps - German nope!
It just wouldn't happen in Germany. Italy perhaps - German nope!
Mar 27th, 2008, 02:37 PM
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" you would have to be crazy to use a new airport in the UK on its first day"
Well, my friend Alina is ! She is in Reading on a business trip and she had tickets to come back to Edinburgh tonight at about 9 PM from T5 LOL
I still don't know where she is right now....
Well, my friend Alina is ! She is in Reading on a business trip and she had tickets to come back to Edinburgh tonight at about 9 PM from T5 LOL
I still don't know where she is right now....
Mar 27th, 2008, 02:52 PM
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"It just wouldn't happen in Germany. Italy perhaps - German nope!"
How do you know? How many 600,000 passenger a week airports has Germany ever opened?
Incidentally, when Germany's State-owned railway killed 101 people at a single go in 1998, which German newspaper or TV station carried out the kind of investigation into its public servants' lethal incompetence British papers would start if the the 1627 to Moreton in Marsh were 10 mins late? Why has the court case against the (government employed) culprits been dropped? Which brave German newspaper has bothered delving into that?
And was T5's first day really that much worse than Hong Kong's? Or Denver's? Or Madrid's? Or Tokyo's?
The only real difference is that we have a press that doesn't get brow-beaten into suppressing screw-up stories.
Unlike Germany, where brown-nosing the government is what the press is there for.
How do you know? How many 600,000 passenger a week airports has Germany ever opened?
Incidentally, when Germany's State-owned railway killed 101 people at a single go in 1998, which German newspaper or TV station carried out the kind of investigation into its public servants' lethal incompetence British papers would start if the the 1627 to Moreton in Marsh were 10 mins late? Why has the court case against the (government employed) culprits been dropped? Which brave German newspaper has bothered delving into that?
And was T5's first day really that much worse than Hong Kong's? Or Denver's? Or Madrid's? Or Tokyo's?
The only real difference is that we have a press that doesn't get brow-beaten into suppressing screw-up stories.
Unlike Germany, where brown-nosing the government is what the press is there for.
Mar 27th, 2008, 03:04 PM
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For the record, the passenger terminal of HKG opened without problem. The main problem was with the cargo terminal.
When the current DEN opened, it had similar meltdown with its luggage handling system. But I don't remember flights being canceled or 12,000 bags "lost", which was the last numbers I read.
When the current DEN opened, it had similar meltdown with its luggage handling system. But I don't remember flights being canceled or 12,000 bags "lost", which was the last numbers I read.
Mar 27th, 2008, 03:05 PM
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i agree with markrosy. did anyone expect things to go right here?
i'm currently working in a 3 year old, very expensive international corporate headquarters. the workmanship is appalling. the detail has been completely ignored and nothing works (not necessarily broken but just not 'fit for purpose' (the most severe insult in the british language).
hotels and most other large buildings never work right and uk's housing is by far the most poorly built in europe. just toured a friend's brand new £800k house and the workmanship and detail of the design was disgusting.
mr uk's excuses for this mess just show how we have been conditioned to accept the heaps of shite that are fed to us at every turn in this country. but accepting shite with a stiff upper lip is just our way....polite acceptance just encourages more shite....and our lip muscles have to get stronger as we get more shite. when our builders are working at 1/2 the pace they should and giving us shite, we just make them tea and look the other way. "that's lovely" we say with our stiff upper lip.
i'm currently working in a 3 year old, very expensive international corporate headquarters. the workmanship is appalling. the detail has been completely ignored and nothing works (not necessarily broken but just not 'fit for purpose' (the most severe insult in the british language).
hotels and most other large buildings never work right and uk's housing is by far the most poorly built in europe. just toured a friend's brand new £800k house and the workmanship and detail of the design was disgusting.
mr uk's excuses for this mess just show how we have been conditioned to accept the heaps of shite that are fed to us at every turn in this country. but accepting shite with a stiff upper lip is just our way....polite acceptance just encourages more shite....and our lip muscles have to get stronger as we get more shite. when our builders are working at 1/2 the pace they should and giving us shite, we just make them tea and look the other way. "that's lovely" we say with our stiff upper lip.
Mar 28th, 2008, 04:57 AM
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Now which airport was it they mentioned on the 'Today' programme this morning ? Apparently consistently one of the top-rated ones now but took *a year* to get over its teething problems. Was it Kuala Lumpur ?
Mar 28th, 2008, 05:24 AM
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Thailands new airport opened too early and there were plenty of "Teething" problems. The runway has even cracked in places. AND as someone said Heathrow does accommodate 600k passengers A DAY. I personally will not go near T5 for months and am suprised people didnt expect problems - granted not on this scale.(that and the fact that i prefer VA anyway....)
Mar 28th, 2008, 06:30 AM
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Interesting comments here:
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...20080328141524
If you click on the "readers recommend" tab, quite a few Brits warn that the ongoing "teething problems" at T5 are a taste of what the Olympics in London will be like.
What I found amusing about the whole mess was the way airport officials fretted that the anti-expansion protesters would "disrupt operations." Instead of fretting, perhaps BA/BAA should hire the protesters as efficiency consultants as they were the only ones properly organized!
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...20080328141524
If you click on the "readers recommend" tab, quite a few Brits warn that the ongoing "teething problems" at T5 are a taste of what the Olympics in London will be like.
What I found amusing about the whole mess was the way airport officials fretted that the anti-expansion protesters would "disrupt operations." Instead of fretting, perhaps BA/BAA should hire the protesters as efficiency consultants as they were the only ones properly organized!
Mar 28th, 2008, 06:31 AM
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BBC World trumpeted
HEATROW HORROR
HEALTHROW HELL
Apparently the BAir staff did not know the lay out of the new terminal even - had trouble themselves getting thru security
I can find no excuse for this chaos - don't they do dry runs
It joins IMO other English technolocy fiascos like The London Eye, which could not be successfully lifted for some time, the Bridge to St Paul's which had to close the day it opened as it shook too much
the APT advanced passenger train on whose press run frightened all the media on it and had to abort
Virgin's Pendolino inaugural run had to be pulled into the station by a switch engine
The Millennium Dome - nough said about that
The Diana Fountain in Hyde Park had to be closed down after opening because it was too dangerous
I don't know but i rarely hear of these types of mind-boggling embarrassments in other European countries
Please don't take this as an anti-English tirade but these type of things seem endemic in England and it's kind of funny
HEATROW HORROR
HEALTHROW HELL
Apparently the BAir staff did not know the lay out of the new terminal even - had trouble themselves getting thru security
I can find no excuse for this chaos - don't they do dry runs
It joins IMO other English technolocy fiascos like The London Eye, which could not be successfully lifted for some time, the Bridge to St Paul's which had to close the day it opened as it shook too much
the APT advanced passenger train on whose press run frightened all the media on it and had to abort
Virgin's Pendolino inaugural run had to be pulled into the station by a switch engine
The Millennium Dome - nough said about that
The Diana Fountain in Hyde Park had to be closed down after opening because it was too dangerous
I don't know but i rarely hear of these types of mind-boggling embarrassments in other European countries
Please don't take this as an anti-English tirade but these type of things seem endemic in England and it's kind of funny
Mar 28th, 2008, 06:48 AM
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The irony is that during the time before T5's opening, BA/BAA kept boasting about T5's "state-of-the-art" luggage handling system. And the embarrassing thing is it was the luggage system that broke down!
The news article mentioned that the staff had been trained for the last 6 months etc. I guess they didn't need security clearance during the dry-run? Looks like part of the problem was the baggage handlers couldn't get clearance to where they're supposed to be.
As much as I love the UK and enjoyed my visits there, I'm sorry, but this is really a big flop!
The news article mentioned that the staff had been trained for the last 6 months etc. I guess they didn't need security clearance during the dry-run? Looks like part of the problem was the baggage handlers couldn't get clearance to where they're supposed to be.
As much as I love the UK and enjoyed my visits there, I'm sorry, but this is really a big flop!
