Switzerland Trip
 

HI Guys,

I just peoples opinions on my trip especially I have heard that the glacier express has lost its charm.

12 April 2017 - Land in Geneva - Pick up rental car and drive around Geneva
13 April Leave for Montreux do the Château de Chillon then proceed to Gstaad (Wispile) then proceed to Bern
14 april - Do sites around Bern (stay for 2 nights in Bern since it is cheaper than Zermatt) - Drop off car
15 april - early morning train to Zermatt - take glacier express upto Chur
- site seeing at chur ...take train to Zurich - stay at Zurich
16 april - Zurich to Lucerene by train and do lake Lucerne and time permits Mount Pilatus then back to zurich
17 April - Do Rhine fall and St Gallen
18 april - Train to Munich pick a car - Sight seeing
19 april - Salzburg
20 april - Cesky Krumlov
21 april - Prague
22April - Dresden ( to break the journey)
23 Aprl - Berlin (return the car)
25 april - fly to amsterdam (evening)
28 april - Fly to Paris (noon)
30 april - Fly to Sydney.

can you please provide your suggestions

Questions:
1) Do you think it is worthwhile doing the entire Glacier express
2) Many people have said do the cable car in Zermatt. In april, could this be a hit or miss with the weather....I may not be able to see anything
3) Many people in the internet said do the interlaken. Bern is to small and I think I may finish it before 12 to 1pm
4) Please also recommend or suggest for the other legs of my trip

Thanks
steve

excuse the typos and the errors..

Hi. We weren't particularly impressed with Bern- it was beautiful- don't get me wrong but not a ton to do. I highly recommend doing Mt. Platus- there's a really fun train ride with a cogwheel train that's the steepest in the world, and once you're up there, there are some hiking trails, a restaurant and beautiful views. We stayed most of our time in Lucerne, before heading to Motreaux. Montreaux is beautiful- I also recommend trying to go to Interlaken and Thun- if you can do a lake/river trip through Thun (we went from Interlaken to Thun- about 2 hours) one of my favorite and the most beautiful parts of Switzerland in my opinion).

For lots on trains check www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. You are traveling enough on trains to merit a good look at a Swiss Pass or Half-Fare Ticket,etc.

You can take a train right to the Rhine Falls - Schlaufhausen nearby is a really nice town to spend a few hours in.

If you are coming from Australia, then please reconsider picking up a rental car upon your arrival in Geneva: Although many people are not aware of it, there is mounting evidence that driving with jet lag is just as dangerous -- to yourself and others -- as driving drunk, and <b>nothing</b> you can do will prevent the microsleeps (which you might not even notice) that are the apparent culprit.

AND there's no need to do so -- public transportation in Switzerland is excellent, and taking trains will allow everyone (including the driver) to see the extraordinary landscapes that you are, apparently, hoping to see while there.

I would find all the moving around utterly frustrating -- too much time in transit for my tastes. (And I say that as someone who moved much more than many people thought reasonable!) Honestly, I think you would do better to go back to the drawing board for much of this trip. Decide on what you want to see and then give yourselves time to actually see it. JMO.

Thnx Kja,

We are flying into Geneva from Dubai (will be in Dubai for 4 days for work). We land into Geneva the afternoon. We are 5 people (wife, my child and my in laws), I love trains but pulling luggage around on train ride especially (13 April )Geneva to Montreux, Gstaad and Bern in a day (changing train and walking around with your bag) is no fun. Most of the trips are around 1 to 2 hours drive with long stops. Hence, I am taking a car in Switzerland for only the starting segment.

15 april - early morning train to Zermatt - take glacier express upto Chur
- site seeing at chur ...take train to Zurich - stay at Zurich>

One day unrealistic-but if you just want to glimpse the Matterhorn (kind of chancy as it is oft mired in clouds or fog or mist

the Glacier Express takes about 6 hours to Chur with the best scenery IMO on that part from Zermatt to Brig/Visp- the exact way you can up to Zermatt- scenery to Chur gets boring for many - oh nice but too much nice gets rather tedious - then train to Zurich

Are you even sure you could take a train Bern to Zermatt - GE to Chur- Chur to Zurich?

I suggest you stay in Zurich - take the thrilling cable way up to near Matterhorn's summit and savor the place.

then take train to Lucerne and base there for a few days - lovely excursions on the lake

Zurich is a city many are underwhelmed by - oh it's a a nice modern city but Lucerne IMO is a much nicer base.

Anyway Day 15 sounds impractical to me and perhaps not as awesome as you think that GE ride may be (section to Chur - it gets very scenic after Reichenau when it turns off route to Chur and climbs the famous Albula Loops to St Moritz.

Palen is right: Berne - Zermatt - Glacier Express - Chur in 1 day is just impossible (therefore I must not answer the question whether such a journey would make the slightest sense).

If you prefer to travel by car, keep the car until you leave Switzerland, otherwise you will have to pay for car rental AND train passes.

I cannot understand why "pulling luggage around on train ride (changing train and walking around with your bag) is no fun" in Western Switzerland only. The planned train changes at Visp, Zermatt, Chur are not different from those at Montreux and Gstaad: either go just from one train to another or put your luggage into railway station lockers.

Berne has a medieval city center and outstanding museums, but it's not cheaper than the places around Zermatt (Brig, Visp, Stalden, Taesch, etc.). All depends on your interests.

The gems along the Glacier Express itinerary are Zermatt, the Riederalp-Aletsch Glacier area, the gorges, brigdes and tunnels between Chur and St. Moritz and the Engadin Valley with it's lakes, thermal spas, glaciers and up to 4000 metres high Mountain peaks. As you are obviously not interested in all these gems, I don't think that a 6 hrs Glacier Express ride would make much sense.

The famous Pilatus cop railway dosen't run in April.

Only half a day is by far not enough for a rapid, but somewhat decent visit of Munich. Same remarks for Prague and Dresden.

Thnx Palenq and Neckervd,

I think you are right..it is hard...after reading on the net and above suggestions..below is my plan but I need assistance ...

I have dropped the idea of taking a rental car, drop the entire Glacier express and purchase the Swiss pass (not half as I am using the trains extensively and the cable cars in Zermatt and Lucerne and boat near Lucerne)

13 April Train Geneva to Montreux and take the golden pass train from Montreux to Lucerne. Stay the night at Lucerne /bern

14 april Lucerne/bern to Zermatt via brig and Back - Stay night at Lucerne

15 April Lucerne local incl mountains and St Gallen then Zurich - Stay at Zurich

16 April Zurich to Tirano via Chur via St Moritz - Stay at Tirano

17 April Leave tirano to Lucerne via Lugano then to Zurich - Stay at Zurich

18 Zurich to Munich via Rhine Falls

how does the above trip sound. I know it is hectic

Too much backtracking.
What about:
12th: Lake Geneva (Geneva and Montreux)
13th: Montreux dp 8.11 - Zermatt (luggage lockers in railway station) ar 10.51. Full day at Zermatt. Zermatt dp 18.13 - Bern ar 20.23. Skip Zermatt and go directly to Berne if the weather is bad.
14/15th: Berne and Lucerne (luggage lockers), Lucerne dp 18.18 - Lugano ar 20.17 (direct train)
15/16th: Lugano dp 10.00 - Tirano 13.00/14.26 - Chur 18.20/18.39 - Zurich ar 19.53
17th: Zurich dp 8.17 - Rhine Falls railway station (Laufen) ar 9.06. Schaffhausen dp by Rhine river boat 11.10 or 13.10 up to the medieval city Stein am Rhein (2 hrs ride). Back to Zurich by train.
18th: Train Zurich to St. Gallen (every 30 min, 1 hrs ride). Luggage into the lockers. Visit.
St. Gallen dp by bus 16.15 - Munich ar 18.50

You may stay either 2 days around Berne resp Lucerne or 1 full day at Lugano, according to weather and your preferences.

I have dropped the idea of taking a rental car, drop the entire Glacier express and purchase the Swiss pass>

do you mean you are dropping the idea of a Swiss Pass - seems that with your new itinerary it would still be a great deal?

Oops I guess I misread - you are buying a pass - the 3-day Flexipass Plus 1/2 off Half-fare Card for other days vs an 8-consecutive-day Swiss Pass even if only using 7 -includes all benefits just about of Half-Fare Card -50% off just about everything that moves in Switzerland and everything you'll be taking.

Thanks neckervd,

I like your backup plan if the weather is bad

here is my update
13 April Train Geneva to Montreux and take the golden pass train from Montreux to Lucerne. Stay the night at Lucerne
14 April Lucerne mountains rigi/pilatius and local stuff in Zurich - Stay at Zurich
15 April Zurich to Lugano via Chur via St Moritz via Tirano (Bernian Express) - Stay at lugano
16 April Leave Lugano to Lucerne (Gotthard express) then to Bern - Stay at Bern
17 april bern to Zermatt via brig and Back - Stay night at Lucerne / zurich. If weather is bad - go straight to Zurich and do medieval city Stein am Rhein. Wow how did I miss Stein am Rhein. The reason I have to keep it as a backup is since they do not have luggage lockers.
18 Zurich to Munich via Rhine Falls and St Gallen to Munich. Thanks I did not know there was a bus directly from St Gallen to Munich. St Gallen bus 16.15 - Munich ar 18.50


Thanks PalenQ,

I will be buying the 8 day full Swiss pass as the use of the trains and the discount (100% or 50% is on cable cars or mountains). We are 5 people - 4 adults (my in laws), wife and my daughter. My daughter with the family card is free.

Questions:
1) Luggage Lockers - We will be using carry-ons luggage only. Are the locker prices per piece or I can pile say two or 3 carryon in a locker?
2) St Gallen to Munich by Bus. I could not find the bus connection using advance search on http://fahrplan.sbb.ch/
3) On the net I found Schaffhausen dp by Rhine river boat 11.10 or 13.10 up to the medieval city Stein am Rhein is free. However, someone said if it is German boat it is not. I do I differntiate between the Swiss ones covered by the pass and not.

Thanks for your response

1) Luggage Lockers - We will be using carry-ons luggage only. Are the locker prices per piece or I can pile say two or 3 carryon in a locker?>

there are various size lockers so you pay per locker not per piece - there may also be manually (or womanly) staffed left luggage depots where you'd pay by the piece but you won't need those.

Bus from Lugano, Zurich, Chur, Constance or St. Gallen to Munich: https://www.flixbus.com/

The Schaffhausen - Stein am Rhein - Constance Rhine river boat is a SWISS boat.

"Stein am Rhein. The reason I have to keep it as a backup is since they do not have luggage lockers"
Why do you need luggage lockers if you sleep 2 nights at Zurich anyway?

"Bern to Zermatt via Brig" doesn't make sense: change at Visp instead of Brig.

April 14th: as you want to go to Rigi AND Pilatus (you know that the cog railways doesn't run in April, but you can take the gondola) you will have no time for a visit of Zurich.

"Bern to Zermatt via Brig" doesn't make sense: change at Visp instead of Brig.>

the new Gotthard Base Tunnel takes you to Visp now I believe before Brig.

17 april bern to Zermatt via brig and Back - Stay night at Lucerne / zurich.>

the Matterhorn can always be clouded or fogged in - a shorter and just as awesome Alpine experience could go to Interlaken and up to Grindelwald - check it out - just a hour or so from Bern.

"the Matterhorn can always be clouded or fogged in"

The Jungfrau too.
Therefore it would be a good idea to consult the weather forecast the evening before.

but there are more options in Jungfrau area if that is the case - like boat trips on the lakes book-ending Interlaken - or day trips to Bern - Zermatt is rather isolated from alternatives.

Does my daughter who is 10yrs old need a seat to be reserved on Scenic train such as Bernina, Gotthard, Glacier express? Keeping mind I need on certain sections of the Bernina express and Glacier which is the best site to book the seat reservations?

cheers
steve

There's a LOT more scenery to see in the Berner Oberland even if there are clouds and fog than going all the way to Zermatt in the hopes of viewing the peak. The village of Zermatt is not nearly as interesting as some of the villages in the BO.

Rstephenp, go HERE: https://www.rhb.ch/en/home

Does my daughter who is 10yrs old need a seat to be reserved on Scenic train such as Bernina, Gotthard, Glacier express?>

Yes but you only need to pay for the seat reservation with the free Family Pass.

Yes go to individual sites of each train to do so -same time you make your seat reservations (need not have pass to do so I believe)- just say you will have a pass.

Locals over the Bernina Pass Railway use the exact same tracks as does the official BEX -and you can just hop on and off at will- rarely very crowded like the typically chock full BEX -with tour groups and tourists - they run about hourly and are about as fast as the Bernina Express - the world's slowest express train as they call it and no reservations on locals even possible.

The MAJOR differences between those "locals" and the Bernina Express are these:

the locals usually do not have the Panorama cars with the ultra-large windows but coaches in which there are more seats. The P-cars have seats with tables so if you want to have a snack on the way or even a picnic it is a lot easier.

The locals also don't always cover the entire route and you may have to change if you wish to travel over the whole route on one timing
How Pal knows these locals are "rarely if ever crowded" I have no idea. It doesn't make the windows any bigger and it doesn't change the scenery but I'll leave it to you.

Pal has been here for years whining about how the Glacier Express is "overrated" and now he's decided those Panorama Cars aren't worth the time and money.

Have a great trip...ANYWAY!

I didn't take the "official" Bernina Express (BE) and so can only comment on my experience of the local trains on those same rails:

The windows were not panoramic -- but I didn't feel the need to see the sky and frankly, I was able to see everything I wanted from the "normal" windows -- which, BTW, could be opened. I don't think you can do that on the BE trains?

IIRC, my seat had a tray. Not a table, but more than enough space for my beverages and snacks.

One can identify one's route on "local" trains on the Swiss rail website, so you can easily tell whether you can go straight through, where you can stop (and if you do, whether there is a manned luggage desk and if so, during what hours; the sizes and costs of luggage lockers, etc.)
http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html

I have no regrets about my choice to take the local trains rather than the BE -- JMO. As with so many decisions when traveling, I think it really is a matter of personal preferences.

To clarify: I COULD see sky above the mountains. I just couldn't see it overhead.

Pal has been here for years whining about how the Glacier Express is "overrated" and now he's decided those Panorama Cars aren't worth the time and money.>

Really pointing out that if not wanting to book in advance and fit your schedule to those of the official BEX the locals are fine and yes I think panoramic cars are overrated- who looks up but just out the window.

And locals in summer have the ultimate panoramic car- openair flat bed cars with no roofs!

Personally I see no advantage to official BEX trains - I've ridden locals several times and raely crowded save for a few stops when groups of hikers get on for a station or two. Dukey does and that is subjective - we are both right in our own impressions.

Pal has been here for years whining about how the Glacier Express is "overrated" and now he's decided those Panorama Cars aren't worth the time and money.>

To make it clear I believe the Glacier Express is over hyped and overranked for the scenery -not its panoramic cars - The Bernina Express or regular trains however go thru the most awesome scenery of any railway in Europe IMO.

Dukey - on BEX you can't open the windows? I don't recall and may have changed - on regular ones you can open and stick your face out the window- not too far of course - but even better than being stuck in your seat on a full train -if stuck on the east side you may see not nearly as well as if you are on the westside (if taking BE be sure to get a seat on the west side where all the great scenery is!).

BE trains are oriented to tour groups and are typically full. Regular trains I was able to move back and forth from side to side as scenery dictated (though most on the west side) - so BEX trains are fine - you get commentary en route still I believe - but regular trains have their pluses too.